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s21d
Posted: Friday, September 19, 2014 7:20:37 AM
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I didn't ask you as I didn't want to neither did I have the strength to do s.


Is the phrase "neither did" correct here?
hedy mmm
Posted: Friday, September 19, 2014 9:29:36 AM

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I didn't ask you as I didn't want to neither did I have the strength to do s.


Is the phrase "neither did" correct here?

Yes, the phrase is correct. You are making two points...'didn't ask' and 'didn't want', however, I believe that a comma after 'neither' is merited....I'm sure the end 'o' to complete the word 'so' went missing, because like me....you wrote it quickly.....perfectly understandable.


"God graced us with today....don't waste it." hedy
excaelis
Posted: Friday, September 19, 2014 7:17:28 PM

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Once would have been sufficient.

Sanity is not statistical
A cooperator
Posted: Friday, September 19, 2014 7:35:28 PM

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hedy mmm wrote:
I didn't ask you as I didn't want to neither did I have the strength to do s.


Is the phrase "neither did" correct here?

Yes, the phrase is correct. You are making two points...'didn't ask' and 'didn't want', however, I believe that a comma after 'neither' is merited....I'm sure the end 'o' to complete the word 'so' went missing, because like me....you wrote it quickly.....perfectly understandable.


Even if a comma had been written there, I, myself, would have thought that this sentence is completely clumsy.
'I didn't ask you as I didn't want to neither, did I have the strength to do so.'

How can anyone think 'neither' can be used alone (without anything following it.)
Maybe a reader will be asking 'to neither do what?'




Whoever doesn't own what he promises to those who do not deserve must not promise it.
Audiendus
Posted: Friday, September 19, 2014 7:57:36 PM
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The comma should come before 'neither':

"I didn't ask you as I didn't want to, neither did I have the strength to do so."
A cooperator
Posted: Friday, September 19, 2014 8:43:06 PM

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Audiendus wrote:
The comma should come before 'neither':

"I didn't ask you as I didn't want to, neither did I have the strength to do so."


You think I can write 'I':

"I didn't ask you as I didn't want to, I neither did I have the strength to do so.

Whoever doesn't own what he promises to those who do not deserve must not promise it.
Audiendus
Posted: Friday, September 19, 2014 9:54:53 PM
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A cooperator wrote:
You think I can write 'I':

"I didn't ask you as I didn't want to, I neither did I have the strength to do so.


No, that wouldn't make sense. 'Did' already has a subject ("neither did I") – you can't add another one.
A cooperator
Posted: Saturday, September 20, 2014 5:32:05 PM

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Audiendus wrote:
A cooperator wrote:
You think I can write 'I':

"I didn't ask you as I didn't want to, I neither did I have the strength to do so.


No, that wouldn't make sense. 'Did' already has a subject ("neither did I") – you can't add another one.


Thanks a lot,
But I am expecting that 'I' is the subject of 'have'
"I didn't ask you as I didn't want to, neither did I have the strength to do so.

Or you mean. 'did' is an auxiliary verb here and it is negatived by 'neither', and 'have' is a main verb.
But, I know if there is an auxiliary verb, then a 'subject' should come before an auxiliary verb, and 'neither' comes before the auxiliary verb to negative it.
For instance, I neither will borrow a pen.
I neither can lend you a pen.

And not like 'neither did I have the strength to do so)
Neither will I borrow a pen.
Neither can I lend you a pen.

Whoever doesn't own what he promises to those who do not deserve must not promise it.
Audiendus
Posted: Saturday, September 20, 2014 7:14:59 PM
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A cooperator wrote:
Or you mean. 'did' is an auxiliary verb here and it is negatived by 'neither', and 'have' is a main verb.

Yes, that's right.

A cooperator wrote:
But, I know if there is an auxiliary verb, then a 'subject' should come before an auxiliary verb

If 'neither' or 'nor' is followed by a whole clause, the subject of that clause comes after the auxiliary verb:

He cannot read, nor can he write.
He cannot read, neither can he write.
Neither can he read, nor can he write.
Neither will I borrow a pen, nor can I lend you one.

If the words following 'neither' are not a whole clause, the subject comes first:

He neither reads nor writes.
He can neither read nor write.
I will neither borrow a pen nor lend you one.
A cooperator
Posted: Sunday, September 21, 2014 6:28:58 PM

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Audiendus wrote:
A cooperator wrote:
Or you mean. 'did' is an auxiliary verb here and it is negatived by 'neither', and 'have' is a main verb.

Yes, that's right.

A cooperator wrote:
But, I know if there is an auxiliary verb, then a 'subject' should come before an auxiliary verb

If 'neither' or 'nor' is followed by a whole clause, the subject of that clause comes after the auxiliary verb:

He cannot read, nor can he write.
He cannot read, neither can he write.
Neither can he read, nor can he write.
Neither will I borrow a pen, nor can I lend you one.

If the words following 'neither' are not a whole clause, the subject comes first:

He neither reads nor writes.
He can neither read nor write.
I will neither borrow a pen nor lend you one.


Thanks a lot,

First: I know that a whole clause is a sentence having a subject + finite verb + object.

You don't think that the words 'borrow a pen' following 'neither' in 'I will neither borrow a pen nor lend you one.' is a whole clause.
If Yes, you don't think, then I don't think that the words 'have the strength to do so' following 'neither' in 'I didn't ask you as I didn't want to, I neither did I have the strength to do so' is a whole clause.

Whoever doesn't own what he promises to those who do not deserve must not promise it.
Audiendus
Posted: Sunday, September 21, 2014 6:48:08 PM
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A cooperator wrote:
If Yes, you don't think, then I don't think that the words 'have the strength to do so' following 'neither' in 'I didn't ask you as I didn't want to, I neither did I have the strength to do so' is a whole clause.

As I pointed out before, the "I" that I have marked in red should be left out, as it doesn't make sense.
A cooperator
Posted: Monday, September 22, 2014 2:15:43 PM

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Audiendus wrote:
A cooperator wrote:
If Yes, you don't think, then I don't think that the words 'have the strength to do so' following 'neither' in 'I didn't ask you as I didn't want to, I neither did I have the strength to do so' is a whole clause.

As I pointed out before, the "I" that I have marked in red should be left out, as it doesn't make sense.


Thanks a lot,
Yes it was typo of typing 'I' marked by you in red.
However, you don't answer me about this

First: I know that a whole clause is a sentence having a subject + finite verb + object.

You don't think that the words 'borrow a pen' following 'neither' in 'I will neither borrow a pen nor lend you one.' is a whole clause.
If you don't think 'borrow a pen' following 'neither' in 'I will neither borrow a pen nor lend you one.' is a whole clause. , then I don't think that the words 'have the strength to do so' following 'neither' in 'I didn't ask you as I didn't want to, neither did I have the strength to do so' is a whole clause.

Whoever doesn't own what he promises to those who do not deserve must not promise it.
Audiendus
Posted: Monday, September 22, 2014 5:20:52 PM
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A cooperator wrote:
If you don't think 'borrow a pen' following 'neither' in 'I will neither borrow a pen nor lend you one.' is a whole clause. , then I don't think that the words 'have the strength to do so' following 'neither' in 'I didn't ask you as I didn't want to, neither did I have the strength to do so' is a whole clause.

Why don't you think they have the strength to do so? The words I have marked in green make a whole clause. It has a subject (I), a finite verb plus an infinitive (did...have), and an object (the strength).
A cooperator
Posted: Monday, September 22, 2014 6:13:11 PM

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Audiendus wrote:
A cooperator wrote:
If you don't think 'borrow a pen' following 'neither' in 'I will neither borrow a pen nor lend you one.' is a whole clause. , then I don't think that the words 'have the strength to do so' following 'neither' in 'I didn't ask you as I didn't want to, neither did I have the strength to do so' is a whole clause.

Why don't you think they have the strength to do so? The words I have marked in green make a whole clause. It has a subject (I), a finite verb plus an infinitive (did...have), and an object (the strength).



Thanks a lot,

First: You first said 'If 'neither' or 'nor' is followed by a whole clause, the subject of that clause comes after the auxiliary verb:'
Neither will I borrow a pen, nor can I lend you one.
If the words following 'neither' are not a whole clause, the subject comes first:
I will neither borrow a pen nor lend you one.

In the second sentence above, why did subject 'I' not come after auxiliary verb 'will' (i.e why don't I say: 'neither will I borrow a pen nor I lend you one'?). I will say the words I have marked in green make a whole clause. It has a subject (I) a finite verb (will..borrow) and an object (a pen)

Second: When do you decide to say?
Neither will I borrow a pen, nor can I lend you one.
And to say:
I will neither borrow a pen nor can lend you one.

Finally: must the the whole clause following 'neither' or 'nor' have an auxiliary verb and main verb'?
in the sentence below, the whole clause after 'neither' and 'nor' only have a main verb
'neither I borrow a pen nor I lend you one'?





Whoever doesn't own what he promises to those who do not deserve must not promise it.
Audiendus
Posted: Monday, September 22, 2014 7:35:28 PM
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A cooperator wrote:
First: You first said 'If 'neither' or 'nor' is followed by a whole clause, the subject of that clause comes after the auxiliary verb:'
Neither will I borrow a pen, nor can I lend you one.
If the words following 'neither' are not a whole clause, the subject comes first:
I will neither borrow a pen nor lend you one.

In the second sentence above, why did subject 'I' not come after auxiliary verb 'will' (i.e why don't I say: 'neither will I borrow a pen nor I lend you one'?). I will say the words I have marked in green make a whole clause. It has a subject (I) a finite verb (will..borrow) and an object (a pen)

"Neither will I borrow a pen" is correct, but "nor I lend you one" is wrong, because (in this sentence) "I lend you one" is not a whole clause. Note that "lend" is not a finite verb here; it is not the present tense, but the infinitive. Both "borrow" and "lend" are infinitives depending on "will"; they are both things that I will not do.

A cooperator wrote:
Second: When do you decide to say?
Neither will I borrow a pen, nor can I lend you one.
And to say:
I will neither borrow a pen nor can lend you one.

You can only say the first. The second is wrong.

A cooperator wrote:
Finally: must the the whole clause following 'neither' or 'nor' have an auxiliary verb and main verb'?
in the sentence below, the whole clause after 'neither' and 'nor' only have a main verb
'neither I borrow a pen nor I lend you one'?

If you want to put 'neither' and 'nor' before 'I', you must put an auxiliary verb in between:
"Neither do I borrow a pen nor do I lend you one."

Alternatively, you can say:
"I neither borrow a pen nor lend you one."

A cooperator
Posted: Monday, September 07, 2015 6:32:23 PM

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Audiendus wrote:

A cooperator wrote:
Finally: must the the whole clause following 'neither' or 'nor' have an auxiliary verb and main verb'?
in the sentence below, the whole clause after 'neither' and 'nor' only have a main verb
'neither I borrow a pen nor I lend you one'?


Quote:
If you want to put 'neither' and 'nor' before 'I', you must put an auxiliary verb in between:
"Neither do I borrow a pen nor do I lend you one."

Alternatively, you can say:
"I neither borrow a pen nor lend you one."




Thank you so much indeed,



Please accept our sincere apologies for the delay, but we have been here in Yemen experiencing high ordeals these months.

Firstly: an auxiliary verb in between can be in any tense(present, past, future)?

Secondly: you said if 'neither' or 'nor' is followed by a whole clause, the subject of that clause comes after the auxiliary verb. So, an auxiliary verb in between is definitely the finite verb, however, the other main verb is definitely the infinitive . For instance, in my sentence, above. It has a subject (I), the finite verbs plus the infinitives (do...borrow), (do... lend), and the objects( a pen, you). I always expect that a main verb is always an finite verb even if there is an auxiliary verb.


Thirdly: I have found this sentence below somewhere:
However, in the sentence, the 'neither' is not followed by a whole clause, however, 'nor' is followed by a whole clause.

"Nevertheless, as communicated earlier, unfortunately alternate part numbers are neither available in stock with Al Mazenye and nor can they order the parts because of current political situation in Yemen."


- According to what you explained above, if I would want to put 'neither' before "alternate part numbers", how can I say that?

Nevertheless, as communicated earlier, unfortunately neither are alternate part numbers available in stock with Al Mazenye and nor can they order the parts because of current political situation in Yemen.

- If incorrect, then how to rephrase the sentence above using "neither" and "nor" followed by a whole clause?


Finally: I have seen these two sentences below
"I have just said that I could neither log in nor register another one".
"They will neither punish nor arrest you"
Do you think they are correct? If so, as long as the auxiliary verbs 'could'/will', and the infinitive verbs 'log in/punish' are available in order in the two sentences, what about putting 'neither' before 'I'/'They', putting the auxiliary verbs in between?

"I have just said that neither could I log in nor register another one".
"Neither will I punish nor arrest you"




Whoever doesn't own what he promises to those who do not deserve must not promise it.
Audiendus
Posted: Monday, September 07, 2015 11:32:24 PM
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A cooperator wrote:
Firstly: an auxiliary verb in between can be in any tense (present, past, future)?

Yes. Neither do I borrow, neither did I borrow, neither will I borrow.

Quote:
Secondly: you said if 'neither' or 'nor' is followed by a whole clause, the subject of that clause comes after the auxiliary verb. So, an auxiliary verb in between is definitely the finite verb, however, the other main verb is definitely the infinitive . For instance, in my sentence, above. It has a subject (I), the finite verbs plus the infinitives (do...borrow), (do... lend), and the objects( a pen, you).

Yes, that is correct.

Quote:
I always expect that a main verb is always an finite verb even if there is an auxiliary verb.

No – that contradicts what you have just written. If there is an auxiliary verb, the main verb (i.e. the other verb) will not be a finite verb; it will be either an infinitive (e.g. neither do I borrow, neither will I borrow), a past participle (e.g. neither have I borrowed), or a present participle (e.g. neither am I borrowing). None of these are finite forms of the verb.

Quote:
Thirdly: I have found this sentence below somewhere:
However, in the sentence, the 'neither' is not followed by a whole clause, however, 'nor' is followed by a whole clause.

"Nevertheless, as communicated earlier, unfortunately alternate part numbers are neither available in stock with Al Mazenye and nor can they order the parts because of current political situation in Yemen."

- According to what you explained above, if I would want to put 'neither' before "alternate part numbers", how can I say that?

Nevertheless, as communicated earlier, unfortunately neither are alternate part numbers available in stock with Al Mazenye and nor can they order the parts because of current political situation in Yemen.

Yes, the second version above is the correct version, except that you need to omit the "and" before "nor".

Quote:
Finally: I have seen these two sentences below
"I have just said that I could neither log in nor register another one".
"They will neither punish nor arrest you"
Do you think they are correct?

Yes.

Quote:
If so, as long as the auxiliary verbs 'could'/will', and the infinitive verbs 'log in/punish' are available in order in the two sentences, what about putting 'neither' before 'I'/'They', putting the auxiliary verbs in between?

"I have just said that neither could I log in nor register another one".
"Neither will I punish nor arrest you"

No, these are wrong. If you have an auxiliary after "neither", you also need an auxiliary (the same or a different one) and a subject (the same or different) after "nor". So the correct versions are:

"I have just said that neither could I log in nor could I register another one".
"Neither will I punish [you] nor will I arrest you."
(The "you" in brackets is optional.)

However, the first of the above sentences, although correct, sounds a little unnatural. It would be better to say:

"I have just said that I could neither log in nor register another one."

Here, the auxiliary ("could") comes before "neither", so you don't need another auxiliary and subject with "nor".
A cooperator
Posted: Thursday, November 12, 2015 9:45:50 PM

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Audiendus wrote:

Quote:

Quote:
I always expect that a main verb is always an finite verb even if there is an auxiliary verb.

No – that contradicts what you have just written. If there is an auxiliary verb, the main verb (i.e. the other verb) will not be a finite verb; it will be either an infinitive (e.g. neither do I borrow, neither will I borrow), a past participle (e.g. neither have I borrowed), or a present participle (e.g. neither am I borrowing). None of these are finite forms of the verb.


Thanks a lot, Audiendus,
Could you please be a littler more patient with me here?


I have read this statement below in some authorized book for studying English, called Headway, Academic Skills.

The word 'Also' is used to link words and phrases such as 'in addition'. It usually comes before the main verb, or after the verb 'to be':
The lowest number of deaths from malaria was in Europe. The Americas and the Western Pacific also had a small number of deaths.
The numbers of deaths in Europe is low. It is also low in the Americas and the Western Pacific.


My questions are:

Firstly:
According to the statement above about where to put 'also' in a sentence, I have also tried writing my own sentences which begin from the number #3, and I inserted 'also' in all these sentences below only in order to let you see how I understand where is the main verb, auxiliary, and modal verb. The glossed where are the main, and auxiliary verbs. Perhaps these sentence are not correct with using 'also' since there are no words and phrases need to be linked.


1- The lowest number of deaths from malaria was in Europe. The Americas and the Western Pacific also had a small number of deaths.
In this sentence, 'was', and 'had' are the main verbs.
2- The numbers of deaths in Europe is low. It is also low in the Americas and the Western Pacific.
In this sentence, 'is' is the main verb.

3- He also speaks Spanish.
In this sentence, 'speak' is the main verb.
4- He is also studying Spanish.
In this sentence, 'studying' is the main verb, and 'is' is the auxiliary verb.


5- I must have been also feeling happy.
'Feeling' is still the main verb, 'have' and 'been' are auxiliary verbs, and 'must' modal verb

6- If I were [s]also[/b] to be fired, I would be unhappy.
In this sentence, "to be fired" is main verb, 'were' is auxiliary verb, 'would' is modal verb, 'be' is a main verb.

7- Where did they also go?
In this sentence, "go" is a main verb, and "did" is auxiliary verb.

8- What are we going also to do?
In this sentence, "are going" is a modal verb(= will), and "to do" is a main verb.


Secondly:
1- As far as I know a main verb is not necessary to be a finite verb.(for instance, 'speaking' in 'He is also studying Spanish.' is not a finite verb, but it is a "present participle" main verb), and Vice versa(a finite verb is not necessary to be a main verb, for example, 'is' in the same sentence is finite verb, but it is an auxiliary).

2- As far as I know that types of verbs are: auxiliary verb , linking verb , modal verb , phrasal verb.

3- As far as I know these auxiliary verbs: 'to be'(is/are/am/was/were),'to do'(do/does/did), and 'to have'(has/have/had), modal verbs(will/shall, must, can, etc.) stay auxiliary verbs if there are other verbs present to form tenses(progressive, perfect tenses, future. However, They can be main verbs if they stand alone.

4- When the 'to be' verbs(is/are/am/was/were),'to do' verbs(do/does/did), 'to have'(has/have/had) verbs, or modal verbs(will/shall, must, can, etc.) come with others verbs involved to form the tenses (progressive, perfect), then the verbs 'to be', 'to have', and 'to do' are called little verbs/auxiliary verbs. However, other verbs, although they are not finite verbs can be called main verbs.
I understand from the statement above, the main verb any other verb other than 'to be' or 'to have' or modal verb.


Thirdly: why do we call a main verb, and auxiliary verbs, and modal verb in English? In my Arabic language, it is slightly different.(There is no perfect tenses at all).(There are only simple present, past, future, progressive tenses). There are auxiliary verbs, linking verbs, modal verbs, and phrasal verbs in my Arabic.(for instance, this

Fourthly: Does the writer of the statement above("Also" usually comes before the main verb, or after the verb 'to be':) mean with the main verb with a verb which can be a finite verb when an auxiliary is absent, a non-finite verb(infinitive, present participle, or past participle) when an auxiliary is present, and does he mean with the verb 'to be' with a verb which can be a finite main verb of 'to be'(is/are/was/were), 'to have"(has/have/had"), or "to do"(do, does, did) whatever other verbs come or not come after them?



Finally:
(A)
Do you think "neither" in "neither are alternate part numbers available in stock with Al Mazenye" is followed by a whole clause as 'nor' in 'nor can they order the parts because of current political situation in Yemen.'? I do think 'nor' is followed by a whole clause because [there is 'subject(they), and an auxiliary verb(can), and a main verb(infinitive 'order') and the object 'the parts..'], but 'neither' is not since there the absence a main verb(there is only the subject 'alternate part numbers', the auxiliary finite verb 'are', and complement ' available in stock with Al Mazenye')

Nevertheless, as communicated earlier, unfortunately neither are alternate part numbers available in stock with Al Mazenye, nor can they order the parts because of current political situation in Yemen.


(B)You told me that "if 'neither' or 'nor' is followed by a whole clause, the subject of that clause comes after the auxiliary verb"

However, As far as I know these auxiliary verbs: 'to be'(is/are/am/was/were),'to do'(do/does/did), and 'to have'(has/have/had), and modal verbs(will/shall, must, can, etc.) stay auxiliary verbs if there are other verbs present to form tenses(progressive, perfect tenses, future. However, they can be main verbs if they stand alone.
As a result, in the "neither are alternate part numbers available in stock with Al Mazenye", there are no other verbs other than verb 'to be' (are) in this case. So, the auxiliary verb 'are' is a main verb as long as it stands alone. Thus, the suggestion "if 'neither' or 'nor' is followed by a whole clause, the subject of that clause comes after the auxiliary verb" will not be applied since 'are' isn't auxiliary verb, however, it is a main verb.


(C) How to write this sentence 'I was happy.' using the same 'neither' .
Do you think it can be "Neither was I happy, nor was I sad."
Do you think both 'neither' and 'nor' are followed by a whole clause 'subject, auxiliary verb, and object"?

(D)If "Neither was I happy, nor was I sad." was correct, then I think "neither borrow I a pen nor lend I you one" should be correct as well, although it is clumsy. But if we glossed the sentence "neither was I happy, nor was I sad", then "I" is subject, 'are' is a main finite verb, and 'happy' is complement. Also, in "Neither borrow I a pen, nor lend I you one", "I" is the subject, "borrow" is main finite verb, and 'a pen' is object.


Whoever doesn't own what he promises to those who do not deserve must not promise it.
Audiendus
Posted: Friday, November 13, 2015 1:12:10 AM
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A cooperator wrote:
Firstly:
According to the statement above about where to put 'also' in a sentence, I have also tried writing my own sentences which begin from the number #3, and I inserted 'also' in all these sentences below only in order to let you see how I understand where is the main verb, auxiliary, and modal verb. The glossed where are the main, and auxiliary verbs. Perhaps these sentence are not correct with using 'also' since there are no words and phrases need to be linked.

1- The lowest number of deaths from malaria was in Europe. The Americas and the Western Pacific also had a small number of deaths.
In this sentence, 'was', and 'had' are the main verbs.
2- The numbers of deaths in Europe is low. It is also low in the Americas and the Western Pacific.
In this sentence, 'is' is the main verb.
3- He also speaks Spanish.
In this sentence, 'speak' is the main verb.
4- He is also studying Spanish.
In this sentence, 'studying' is the main verb, and 'is' is the auxiliary verb.
5- I must have been also feeling happy.
'Feeling' is still the main verb, 'have' and 'been' are auxiliary verbs, and 'must' modal verb
6- If I were [s]also[/b] to be fired, I would be unhappy.
In this sentence, "to be fired" is main verb, 'were' is auxiliary verb, 'would' is modal verb, 'be' is a main verb.
7- Where did they also go?
In this sentence, "go" is a main verb, and "did" is auxiliary verb.
8- What are we going also to do?
In this sentence, "are going" is a modal verb(= will), and "to do" is a main verb.

The statement from the book you quote is not clear about what to do when there are auxiliary verbs. You can use the following rule:

(a) If there is only one verb, and that verb is a form of 'to be', 'also' comes after it. If it is any other verb, 'also' comes before it.
(b) If there is an auxiliary verb followed by another verb, 'also' goes after the auxiliary and before the other verb – e.g. "I can also speak English", "You must also write to him", "We have also heard her sing".
(c) If there are two or more auxiliary verbs followed by another verb, 'also' goes after the first auxiliary – e.g. "He has also been learning English", "He must also have been learning English", "It can also be used as a table", "She cannot also have been working".

So your numbered sentences above are all correct except 5 (which should read: "I must also have been feeling happy") and 8 (which should read: "What are we also going to do?").

"Main verb" means a non-auxiliary verb. But you don't need to bother about this term when applying the rule I have suggested – it just adds unnecessary complications.

Quote:
Finally:
(A)
Do you think "neither" in "neither are alternate part numbers available in stock with Al Mazenye" is followed by a whole clause as 'nor' in 'nor can they order the parts because of current political situation in Yemen.'? I do think 'nor' is followed by a whole clause because [there is 'subject(they), and an auxiliary verb(can), and a main verb(infinitive 'order') and the object 'the parts..'], but 'neither' is not since there the absence a main verb(there is only the subject 'alternate part numbers', the auxiliary finite verb 'are', and complement ' available in stock with Al Mazenye')

"Are" is a main verb here, not an auxiliary. So "are alternate part numbers available in stock with Al Mazenye" is a whole clause.

Unlike other verbs, "to be" can be used without an auxiliary verb here. We do not say: "Neither do alternate part numbers be available...".

Quote:
(B)You told me that "if 'neither' or 'nor' is followed by a whole clause, the subject of that clause comes after the auxiliary verb"

However, As far as I know these auxiliary verbs: 'to be'(is/are/am/was/were),'to do'(do/does/did), and 'to have'(has/have/had), and modal verbs(will/shall, must, can, etc.) stay auxiliary verbs if there are other verbs present to form tenses(progressive, perfect tenses, future. However, they can be main verbs if they stand alone.
As a result, in the "neither are alternate part numbers available in stock with Al Mazenye", there are no other verbs other than verb 'to be' (are) in this case. So, the auxiliary verb 'are' is a main verb as long as it stands alone. Thus, the suggestion "if 'neither' or 'nor' is followed by a whole clause, the subject of that clause comes after the auxiliary verb" will not be applied since 'are' isn't auxiliary verb, however, it is a main verb.

Yes, that is correct.


Quote:
(C) How to write this sentence 'I was happy.' using the same 'neither' .
Do you think it can be "Neither was I happy, nor was I sad."

Yes.

Quote:
Do you think both 'neither' and 'nor' are followed by a whole clause 'subject, auxiliary verb, and object"?

No, they are followed by a main verb, a subject, and an adjectival complement. There is no auxiliary verb or object.

Quote:
(D)If "Neither was I happy, nor was I sad." was correct, then I think "neither borrow I a pen nor lend I you one" should be correct as well, although it is clumsy. But if we glossed the sentence "neither was I happy, nor was I sad", then "I" is subject, 'are' is a main finite verb, and 'happy' is complement. Also, in "Neither borrow I a pen, nor lend I you one", "I" is the subject, "borrow" is main finite verb, and 'a pen' is object.

"Neither borrow I a pen nor lend I you one" is not absolutely wrong, but no native speaker would ever say or write it, as it sounds very old-fashioned, like the kind of English that Shakespeare wrote 400 years ago!
sureshot
Posted: Friday, November 13, 2015 2:30:36 AM
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Audiendus wrote:
The comma should come before 'neither':

"I didn't ask you as I didn't want to, neither did I have the strength to do so."

___________________________________________________

For me, the above sentence is correct. The variations are:

- I didn't ask you as I neither wanted to, nor had the strength to do so.

This structure is rather formal and is used to join two negative ideas.

One can also say:

- I didn't ask you as I didn't want to, nor did I have the strength to do so.
A cooperator
Posted: Friday, November 13, 2015 5:18:37 PM

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sureshot wrote:
Audiendus wrote:
The comma should come before 'neither':

"I didn't ask you as I didn't want to, neither did I have the strength to do so."

___________________________________________________

For me, the above sentence is correct. The variations are:

- I didn't ask you as I neither wanted to, nor had the strength to do so.

This structure is rather formal and is used to join two negative ideas.

One can also say:

- I didn't ask you as I didn't want to, nor did I have the strength to do so.


Thank you so much, sureshot, for your participating in this thread.

Yes, but I think you have only added two more variations to write that sentence.
One which is without including a whole clause after 'neither'. So, a comma is not requird before 'neither' "- I didn't ask you as I neither wanted to, nor had the strength to do so.". However, the other one which was included a while clause after 'nor', and included a comma before 'nor'. "- I didn't ask you as I didn't want to, nor did I have the strength to do so.", which is similar to Audiendus' corrected sentence, except for 'neither'.



The OP said:
Quote:
I didn't ask you as I didn't want to neither did I have the strength to do s.

He used a whole clause after 'neither', and missed the comma before it.




Whoever doesn't own what he promises to those who do not deserve must not promise it.
A cooperator
Posted: Saturday, November 14, 2015 2:35:34 AM

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Audiendus wrote:
Quote:


a cooperator wrote:
Quote:
"Nevertheless, as communicated earlier, unfortunately neither are alternate part numbers available in stock with Al Mazenye, nor can they order the parts because of current political situation in Yemen."
Do you think both 'neither' and 'nor' are followed by a whole clause 'subject, auxiliary verb, and object"?


No, they are followed by a main verb, a subject, and an adjectival complement. There is no auxiliary verb or object.


Thanks a lot,
You think that a clause is enough to have 'a subject, a finite verb, and an object/complement to be whole caluse(no need to have 'a finite plus a non-finite verb as in these sentence below). If it has a finite verb plus more than one non-finte verbs(participles, infinitives), then what it could be called?
For instance,
He is also studying French.
..'neither did I have the strength to do so'('did' is finite auxiliary verb...... 'I' subject.... 'have' a bare infinitve non-finite main verb.... "the strength" is the object of the verb 'have'....'to do' is infinitve non-fininte main verb... 'so' is an adverb.





Audiendus wrote:
Quote:


A cooperator wrote:
Firstly:
(D)"Neither borrow I a pen nor lend I you one" is not absolutely wrong, but no native speaker would ever say or write it, as it sounds very old-fashioned, like the kind of English that Shakespeare wrote 400 years ago!



I know it is clumsy, but I only asked whether 'neiter borrow I a pen, nor lend I you one' since 'borrow', and 'lend' here are main verbs. Also, in 'neither was I happy, nor was I sad', 'was' is main verb. So, as long as 'neither was I happy, nor was I said' is correct, although it isn't obeyed to the rule 'You told me that "if 'neither' or 'nor' is followed by a whole clause, the subject of that clause comes after the auxiliary verb" you given since 'subject' comes before a main verb. So, I thought this another rule below can also be applied with 'to lend' and 'to borrow' as long as the connstruction is similar('are', 'borrow', and 'lend' are main verbs without presenting auxiliary verbs)

Quote:
Unlike other verbs, "to be" can be used without an auxiliary verb here. We do not say: "Neither do alternate part numbers be available...".


Finally:
Shouldn't the subject of the verb in the two negative ideas indicate to the same person?
Neither do I have a pen, nor does she have one.
I didn't believe the story and neither did he(believe).

Whoever doesn't own what he promises to those who do not deserve must not promise it.
Audiendus
Posted: Saturday, November 14, 2015 9:24:21 AM
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A cooperator wrote:
You think that a clause is enough to have 'a subject, a finite verb, and an object/complement to be whole clause (no need to have 'a finite plus a non-finite verb as in these sentence below). If it has a finite verb plus more than one non-finite verbs(participles, infinitives), then what it could be called?

It is still a clause. A (finite) clause must have a finite verb, but it may also have one or more non-finite verbs.

Quote:
For instance,
He is also studying French.
..'neither did I have the strength to do so' ('did' is finite auxiliary verb...... 'I' subject.... 'have' a bare infinitive non-finite main verb.... "the strength" is the object of the verb 'have'....'to do' is infinitive non-finite main verb... 'so' is an adverb.

These are both clauses. The first one may also be a complete sentence.

Quote:
"Neither borrow I a pen nor lend I you one"

As I said, this construction is not used in modern English. You need to use the auxiliary 'do', and say:
"Neither do I borrow a pen nor do I lend you one."

Audiendus wrote:
Unlike other verbs, "to be" can be used without an auxiliary verb here. We do not say: "Neither do alternate part numbers be available...".

"To be" is the only verb that can be used without an auxiliary verb here in modern English.

A cooperator wrote:
Shouldn't the subject of the verb in the two negative ideas indicate to the same person?
Neither do I have a pen, nor does she [have one].
I didn't believe the story and neither did he (believe).

No, the subjects need not indicate the same person. Your two examples above are perfectly OK.
A cooperator
Posted: Saturday, November 14, 2015 6:38:31 PM

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Audiendus wrote:

A cooperator wrote:
Shouldn't the subject of the verb in the two negative ideas indicate to the same person?
Neither do I have a pen, nor does she [have one].
I didn't believe the story and neither did he (believe).
No, the subjects need not indicate the same person. Your two examples above are perfectly OK.


Thank you so much indeed,

Firstly:
Why have you surrounded 'have one' with blue brackets. If they can be omitted safely, then the clause after 'nor' wouldn't be a whole clause.


Secondly:
I think there is no a whole clause after 'neither', and 'nor' in 'I didn't ask you as I neither wanted to, nor had the strength to do so.


Thirdly:
As a conclusion: This structure is used to join two negative ideas underlined.
So, When must the comma be used before 'neither' or 'nor'?

a whole clause after 'neither', and 'nor' or after 'neither' or 'nor':::

Neither do I have a pen, nor does she have one.(comma before 'nor')
I didn't ask you as I didn't want to, neither did I have the strength to do so.(comma before 'neither')
I didn't ask you as I didn't want to, nor did I have the strength to do so.(comma before 'nor').
I didn't believe the story and neither did he (believe).(no comma before 'neither')

No whole clause after 'neither', and 'nor':::

'I didn't ask you as I neither wanted to, nor had the strength to do so
"I neither borrow a pen nor lend you one."(There is no a comma before 'nor', however, there is a comma before 'nor' in the above sentence)

Finally:
However, I read in the use of 'so' and 'neither', and I found in such a structure, each negative idea is separated in a clause. Also, there is no a whole clause after 'neither, and 'nor', although they come before an auxiliary verb.
I don't like this food. Neither has my friend.
I don't like this food. Nor has my friend.
I like this food. So do I.
I want to go home. So do I.
I don't want to go home. Neither do I.



Whoever doesn't own what he promises to those who do not deserve must not promise it.
Audiendus
Posted: Saturday, November 14, 2015 10:12:04 PM
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A cooperator wrote:
Firstly:
Why have you surrounded 'have one' with blue brackets. If they can be omitted safely, then the clause after 'nor' wouldn't be a whole clause.

"Nor does she" is a shortened form of "nor does she have a pen" or "nor does she have one". The extra words are implied. The clause still has a subject ("she") and a finite verb ("does") after "nor", so it counts as a whole clause.

Quote:
Secondly:
I think there is no a whole clause after 'neither', and 'nor' in 'I didn't ask you as I neither wanted to, nor had the strength to do so.

Correct. Here the subject ("I") comes before "neither" and "nor".

Quote:
Thirdly:
As a conclusion: This structure is used to join two negative ideas underlined.
So, When must the comma be used before 'neither' or 'nor'?

a whole clause after 'neither', and 'nor' or after 'neither' or 'nor':::

Neither do I have a pen, nor does she have one.(comma before 'nor')
I didn't ask you as I didn't want to, neither did I have the strength to do so.(comma before 'neither')
I didn't ask you as I didn't want to, nor did I have the strength to do so.(comma before 'nor').
I didn't believe the story and neither did he (believe).(no comma before 'neither')

These are correct.

Quote:
No whole clause after 'neither', and 'nor':::

'I didn't ask you as I neither wanted to, nor had the strength to do so
"I neither borrow a pen nor lend you one."(There is no a comma before 'nor', however, there is a comma before 'nor' in the above sentence)

The first sentence can also be written without a comma. However, as it would be spoken with a slight pause after "to", a comma is justifiable here. There is no strict rule about this.

Quote:
Finally:
However, I read in the use of 'so' and 'neither', and I found in such a structure, each negative idea is separated in a clause. Also, there is no a whole clause after 'neither, and 'nor', although they come before an auxiliary verb.
I don't like this food. Neither has does my friend.
I don't like this food. Nor has does my friend.
I like this food. So do I.
I want to go home. So do I.
I don't want to go home. Neither do I.

The second sentence in each line above has a shortened form of a whole clause:

Neither does my friend [like it].
Nor does my friend [like it].
So do I [like it].
So do I [want to go home].
Neither do I [want to go home].
A cooperator
Posted: Wednesday, September 13, 2017 9:04:46 PM

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As I tend to keep my related posts to be posted in the same topics/threads, I would ask you here, do you think this underlined sentence is correct?

There are some devices that don't need to be ejected before removing, such as media players and cameras connected via USB. These devices hold a special place in Windows and do not need, nor can they be, ejected before removing. For portable devices you won’t see a safely remove option in the menu.

I think it should have been written as 'and do not need to be, nor can they be, ejected before removing[/u]

Whoever doesn't own what he promises to those who do not deserve must not promise it.
Audiendus
Posted: Thursday, September 14, 2017 8:37:03 PM
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A cooperator wrote:
I think it should have been written as 'and do not need to be, nor can they be, ejected before removing.

Yes.

Or: 'and do not need to, nor can they, be ejected before removing'.

('Removing' is used here for conciseness, but it sounds rather unnatural; we would normally say 'being removed'.)
A cooperator
Posted: Friday, September 15, 2017 8:29:16 PM

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Audiendus wrote:
A cooperator wrote:
I think it should have been written as 'and do not need to be, nor can they be, ejected before removing.

Yes.

Or: 'and do not need to, nor can they, be ejected before removing'.

('Removing' is used here for conciseness, but it sounds rather unnatural; we would normally say 'being removed'.)



Thanks a lot, Audiendus,
First of all: you think that the 'before removing' in the above sentence would normal to be 'before being removed' since it is passive -ing.

There are some devices that don't need to be ejected before being removed by someone, such as media players and cameras connected via USB. These devices hold a special place in Windows and do not need, nor can they, be ejected before being removed by someone. For portable devices you won’t see a safely remove option in the menu.

You concluded that correction since the active form of 'being removed' would be 'before someone removes them'?

Finally: I have come across this sentence below. So, "Never + verb + subject...." follows the same role for 'neither verb + subject..., nor + verb + subject...)
Never did I ever in my life think that these two people would sing together.....

Whoever doesn't own what he promises to those who do not deserve must not promise it.
Audiendus
Posted: Friday, September 15, 2017 10:06:24 PM
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Joined: 8/24/2011
Posts: 4,260
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Location: London, England, United Kingdom
A cooperator wrote:
First of all: you think that the 'before removing' in the above sentence would normal to be 'before being removed' since it is passive -ing.

There are some devices that don't need to be ejected before being removed by someone, such as media players and cameras connected via USB. These devices hold a special place in Windows and do not need to, nor can they, be ejected before being removed by someone. For portable devices you won’t see a safely remove option in the menu.

You concluded that correction since the active form of 'being removed' would be 'before someone removes them'?

Yes.

A cooperator wrote:
Finally: I have come across this sentence below. So, "Never + verb + subject...." follows the same rule for 'neither verb + subject..., nor + verb + subject...)
Never did I ever in my life think that these two people would sing together.....

Yes, that is correct. This rule applies whenever a negative adverb, or negative adverbial phrase, is placed first:

Nowhere did I see any sign of life.
Nowhere is there total darkness.
In no way do I support this proposal.
At no time have I ever said that.
Under no circumstances would the Queen defy the will of Parliament.
No sooner had I returned than there was a phone call. [= there was a phone call immediately I returned]

The rule also applies to 'almost negative' expressions such as "scarcely" and "hardly":

Scarcely/hardly had I returned when there was a phone call.
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