The Free Dictionary  
mailing list For webmasters
Welcome Guest Forum Search | Active Topics | Members

The usage of 'out of' ['A out of B' - a way of visually describing a statistic, or ratio] Options
A cooperator
Posted: Tuesday, October 11, 2016 8:34:38 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 10/27/2011
Posts: 2,277
Neurons: 8,192
Location: Ḩāḑírah, Hadramawt, Yemen
Hi everyone!

I always come across this structure 'A out of B'. Sometimes, it is 'Out of B'. As far as I know that 'out of' is only used to how to write numbers:::

1- But the 95% of men out there that watch porn on a regular basis are truly addicted to it.
2- out of the original eight sub-species of tigers, three are now extinct.
3- one out of three consumers globally say they are spending more money today on beauty and health care products... than ever before.
4- This folder contains 5 files out of which one is ‘hosts’ file.

5- in this sentence below 'out of' follows an adjective.
Why Are We Generous?
Are we generous out of kindness or self-interest?


I cannot understand the 'out of' in the first, second, and the fifth sentences since the structure is different from this structure 'A out of B' ('number out of number') used in the third and fourth sentences?
Is the structure 'out of' used in first, second and the fifth like the structure 'out of' used in "Archiving moves a message out of your Inbox without deleting it. To find them later, search or open the Archive folder."

Whoever doesn't own what he promises to those who do not deserve must not promise it.
NKM
Posted: Tuesday, October 11, 2016 10:55:22 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 2/14/2015
Posts: 3,903
Neurons: 169,166
Location: Corinth, New York, United States
A cooperator wrote:
Hi everyone!

I always come across this structure 'A out of B'. Sometimes, it is 'Out of B'. As far as I know that 'out of' is only used to how to write numbers:::

1- But the 95% of men out there that watch porn on a regular basis are truly addicted to it.
2- out of the original eight sub-species of tigers, three are now extinct.
3- one out of three consumers globally say they are spending more money today on beauty and health care products... than ever before.
4- This folder contains 5 files out of which one is ‘hosts’ file.

5- in this sentence below 'out of' follows an adjective.
Why Are We Generous?
Are we generous out of kindness or self-interest?


I cannot understand the 'out of' in the first, second, and the fifth sentences since the structure is different from this structure 'A out of B' ('number out of number') used in the third and fourth sentences?
Is the structure 'out of' used in first, second and the fifth like the structure 'out of' used in "Archiving moves a message out of your Inbox without deleting it. To find them later, search or open the Archive folder."

══════════════════════════════════════════════

In the first sentence, "out there" just means "in the world" — which does not actually add anything to the meaning of the sentence. And the wording of the sentence implies that "95% of men watch porn on a regular basis", because the word "the" is in the wrong place. It should be "95% of the men who …", not "the 95% of men who …".

The second sentence means "Three of the original eight sub-species of tigers are now extinct." It's exactly what you think of as "number out of number" — and the "out" is unnecessary (though acceptable) for that use.

The fifth sentence is a very different use of "out of". It's an idiom, meaning "for the sake of" or "motivated by".

Donthailand
Posted: Wednesday, October 12, 2016 7:58:27 AM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 12/16/2014
Posts: 120
Neurons: 352,329
Location: Detroit, Michigan, United States
How about: Are you "out of" your mind?
pjharvey
Posted: Wednesday, October 12, 2016 10:25:27 AM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 4/13/2012
Posts: 776
Neurons: 44,910
And I think that the five examples of the usage of "out of" are out of square...
thar
Posted: Wednesday, October 12, 2016 2:34:32 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 7/8/2010
Posts: 15,670
Neurons: 62,577
As has been said, these are all different uses of 'out'.
It is a common proposition, so it will often occurs in a sentence, not necessarily anything to do with numbers.


It might help you to think of '1 out of four' is just a way of visually describing a statistic, or ratio.




One stands out from the four.

It has to be a number out of a number. In one of your examples, it is that if you reorder the phrases. In others, it has nothing to do with the number in the sentence.

It can even be expressed in the opposite way - one in four men....



It really is just another way of visualising it, and describing that visualisation.
Wilmar (USA)
Posted: Wednesday, October 12, 2016 4:08:30 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 6/4/2015
Posts: 679
Neurons: 143,177
Location: Vinton, Iowa, United States
There is still a problem w/ this one.
4- This folder contains 5 files out of which one is ‘hosts’ file.

At best, this is very poorly worded.
It may be better phrased, as follows.
This folder contains 5 files, one of which is the "hosts" file.

NKM
Posted: Wednesday, October 12, 2016 7:25:24 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 2/14/2015
Posts: 3,903
Neurons: 169,166
Location: Corinth, New York, United States
As Wilmar says, sentence (4) is quite awkward, though the OP did not mention having trouble understanding it.

- This folder contains five files, including the "hosts" file.
A cooperator
Posted: Thursday, October 13, 2016 9:00:57 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 10/27/2011
Posts: 2,277
Neurons: 8,192
Location: Ḩāḑírah, Hadramawt, Yemen
Thank you all of you.
If I am going to categorize the examples according to the 'out of' usage, then they would be classified as follows:



"a number out of a number" a way of visually describing a statistic, or ratio

1- out of the original eight sub-species of tigers, three are now extinct.
2- one out of three consumers globally say they are spending more money today on beauty and health care products... than ever before.
3- Archiving moves a message out of your Inbox without deleting it. To find them later, search or open the Archive folder.
4- 1 out of four.....
5- This folder contains 5 files out of which one is ‘hosts’ file.

'Out of' is an idiom, meaning "for the sake of" or "motivated by".

1- Why Are We Generous? Are we generous out of kindness or self-interest?
2- The one who kills out of anger and suspicion is more deserved to be called a pagan



However, I don't know to which usage of 'out of' 'One stands out from the four' can be classified?

Besides: I don't think that 'One stands out from the four' can be expressed as 1 in 4 since the '1 in 4' can be rephrased upside-down as '4 in 1' which means there are four things combined in one thing.

Whoever doesn't own what he promises to those who do not deserve must not promise it.
Audiendus
Posted: Thursday, October 13, 2016 9:44:00 AM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 8/24/2011
Posts: 4,260
Neurons: 733,341
Location: London, England, United Kingdom
A cooperator wrote:
1- out of the original eight sub-species of tigers, three are now extinct.
2- one out of three consumers globally say they are spending more money today on beauty and health care products... than ever before.
3- Archiving moves a message out of your Inbox without deleting it. To find them later, search or open the Archive folder. [This is not "a number out of a number". "Your Inbox" is not a number. "Out of" here has its normal meaning, as in "He went out of the house".]
4- 1 out of four.....
5- This folder contains 5 files, out of which one is ‘hosts’ file. [Add a comma after "files". The meaning is "1 out of 5".]


A co-operator wrote:
However, I don't know to which usage of 'out of' 'One stands out from the four' can be classified?

This is completely different. Here, "out" is part of the verbal phrase "stands out", not part of the prepositional phrase "out of". (There is no "of".)
A cooperator
Posted: Friday, October 21, 2016 7:25:43 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 10/27/2011
Posts: 2,277
Neurons: 8,192
Location: Ḩāḑírah, Hadramawt, Yemen
Audiendus wrote:
A cooperator wrote:
1- out of the original eight sub-species of tigers, three are now extinct.
2- one out of three consumers globally say they are spending more money today on beauty and health care products... than ever before.
3- Archiving moves a message out of your Inbox without deleting it. To find them later, search or open the Archive folder. [This is not "a number out of a number". "Your Inbox" is not a number. "Out of" here has its normal meaning, as in "He went out of the house".]
4- 1 out of four.....
5- This folder contains 5 files, out of which one is ‘hosts’ file. [Add a comma after "files". The meaning is "1 out of 5".]


A co-operator wrote:
However, I don't know to which usage of 'out of' 'One stands out from the four' can be classified?

This is completely different. Here, "out" is part of the verbal phrase "stands out", not part of the prepositional phrase "out of". (There is no "of".)


Thanks a lot, Audiendus,

Firstly: Then, you think 'out of' usage can be as:

"out of", part of the prepositional phrase "out of", has a meaning a number out of a number, as in:
1- out of the original eight sub-species of tigers, three are now extinct.
2- one out of three consumers globally say they are spending more money today on beauty and health care products... than ever before.
3- out of four.....
4- This folder contains 5 files, out of which one is ‘hosts’ file.


'Out of', part of the prepositional phrase "out of", has an idiomatic meaning "for the sake of" or "motivated by".
1- Why Are We Generous? Are we generous out of kindness or self-interest?
2- The one who kills out of anger and suspicion is more deserved to be called a pagan


"Out of", part of the prepositional phrase "out of", has its normal meaning, as in:
1-He went out of the house.
2- Archiving moves a message out of your Inbox without deleting it. To find them later, search or open the Archive folder.

"out" is part of the verbal phrase "stands out", not part of the prepositional phrase "out of".
1- But 95% of men out there who watch porn on a regular basis are truly addicted to it.
2- One stands out from the four.
3- go out from my house.

Secondly: You think "This folder contains 5 files, out of which one is ‘hosts’ file." can be rephrased as This folder contains 5 files, 1 out of which is ‘hosts’ file. If not, I would be saying I couldn't understand 'one' can be used after 'out of which' since I think "This folder contains 5 files, out of which one is ‘hosts’ file." means "This folder contains 5 files, 1 out of 5 is ‘hosts’ file."

Thirdly: In 'out of a number', does 'out of a number' mean '1 out of a number'? For instance, You think that "out of the original eight sub-species of tigers, three are now extinct." means "3 out of the original eight sub-species of tigers are now extinct."? OR it can mean '1 out of the original eight sub-species of tigers, three are now extinct."?

Finally:I don't think that 'One stands out from the four' can be expressed as 1 in 4 since the '1 in 4' can be rephrased upside-down as '4 in 1' which means there are four things combined in one thing.

Whoever doesn't own what he promises to those who do not deserve must not promise it.
Wilmar (USA)
Posted: Friday, October 21, 2016 8:00:58 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 6/4/2015
Posts: 679
Neurons: 143,177
Location: Vinton, Iowa, United States
As long as this hasn't dried up yet, here is another fix for you.
You said:
1- out of the original eight sub-species of tigers, three are now extinct.
I would suggest it is more corrected worded as follows.
Of the original either sub-species of tigers, three are now extinct.

A cooperator
Posted: Friday, October 21, 2016 9:44:50 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 10/27/2011
Posts: 2,277
Neurons: 8,192
Location: Ḩāḑírah, Hadramawt, Yemen
Wilmar (USA) wrote:
As long as this hasn't dried up yet, here is another fix for you.
You said:
1- out of the original eight sub-species of tigers, three are now extinct.
I would suggest it is more corrected worded as follows.
Of the original either sub-species of tigers, three are now extinct.



Thanks a lot, Wilmar for your try to help me.
The 'of' + a number or 'out of + a number' still confuses me.

Also, could anyone please take some of his precious time out to read my four points posted before and confirm that for me?

Whoever doesn't own what he promises to those who do not deserve must not promise it.
Audiendus
Posted: Friday, October 21, 2016 11:48:36 PM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 8/24/2011
Posts: 4,260
Neurons: 733,341
Location: London, England, United Kingdom
A cooperator wrote:
Firstly: Then, you think 'out of' usage can be as:

"out of", part of the prepositional phrase "out of", has a meaning a number out of a number, as in:
1- out of the original eight sub-species of tigers, three are now extinct.
2- one out of three consumers globally say they are spending more money today on beauty and health care products... than ever before.
3- out of four.....
4- This folder contains 5 files, out of which one is ‘hosts’ file.
Yes.

Quote:
'Out of', part of the prepositional phrase "out of", has an idiomatic meaning "for the sake of" or "motivated by".
1- Why Are We Generous? Are we generous out of kindness or self-interest?
2- The one who kills out of anger and suspicion is more deserved to be called a pagan
Yes.

Quote:
"Out of", part of the prepositional phrase "out of", has its normal meaning, as in:
1-He went out of the house.
2- Archiving moves a message out of your Inbox without deleting it. To find them later, search or open the Archive folder.
Yes.

Quote:
"out" is part of the verbal phrase "stands out", not part of the prepositional phrase "out of".
1- But 95% of men out there who watch porn on a regular basis are truly addicted to it.
2- One stands out from the four.
3- go out from my house.
Yes. "Out" in (1) is part of the adverbial phrase "out there". "Out" in (3) is part of the verbal phrase "go out".

Quote:
Secondly: You think "This folder contains 5 files, out of which one is ‘hosts’ file." can be rephrased as This folder contains 5 files, 1 out of which is ‘hosts’ file.
Yes.

Quote:
Thirdly: In 'out of a number', does 'out of a number' mean '1 out of a number'?
Not necessarily. It only means "1 out of..." if it specifically says so.

Quote:
For instance, You think that "out of the original eight sub-species of tigers, three are now extinct." means "3 out of the original eight sub-species of tigers are now extinct."?
Yes.

Quote:
OR it can mean '1 out of the original eight sub-species of tigers, three are now extinct."?
No, that would make no sense!

Quote:
Finally: I don't think that 'One stands out from the four' can be expressed as 1 in 4
"One stands out from the four" is incorrect. If there are four things altogether, and one of them stands out in some way, we would say "One of the four stands out (from the others)" or "One stands out from the other three".

Quote:
since the '1 in 4' can be rephrased upside-down as '4 in 1' which means there are four things combined in one thing.
I don't understand what you mean here.
A cooperator
Posted: Saturday, November 12, 2016 5:45:17 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 10/27/2011
Posts: 2,277
Neurons: 8,192
Location: Ḩāḑírah, Hadramawt, Yemen
Audiendus wrote:

"One stands out from the four" is incorrect. If there are four things altogether, and one of them stands out in some way, we would say "One of the four stands out (from the others)" or "One stands out from the other three".



Thanks a lot, Audiendus,

Firstly: However, thar said
Quote:
One stands out from the four.

It has to be a number out of a number. In one of your examples, it is that if you reorder the phrases. In others, it has nothing to do with the number in the sentence.

It can even be expressed in the opposite way - one in four men....



As a result, I was asking that I don't think that "One stands out from the four" can be expressed as "1 in 4" as thar said since "1 in 4" could be expressed in the opposite way '4 in 1' which means there are four things combined in one thing.


Finally: Which category do you think 'out of' in this sentence underlined below can be classified to? It can be categorized to "out of", part of the prepositional phrase "out of", has a meaning a number out of a number?

We've updated our systems so need a bit more info. It only takes a minute. And it'll give you more ways to get the best out of the BBC

Whoever doesn't own what he promises to those who do not deserve must not promise it.
thar
Posted: Saturday, November 12, 2016 6:13:07 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 7/8/2010
Posts: 15,670
Neurons: 62,577
That is not 'a number out of number'.

To get the best out of the BBC is like saying 'to get some juice out of an orange', or 'to get a book out of a bag'. It means to extract it. It is in there, you want to take it out. 'out' is a preposition of direction.
Audiendus
Posted: Saturday, November 12, 2016 7:33:18 PM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 8/24/2011
Posts: 4,260
Neurons: 733,341
Location: London, England, United Kingdom
A cooperator wrote:
As a result, I was asking that I don't think that "One stands out from the four" can be expressed as "1 in 4"

That's right – it cannot be expressed as "1 in 4".


A cooperator wrote:
Finally: Which category do you think 'out of' in this sentence underlined below can be classified to? It can be categorized to "out of", part of the prepositional phrase "out of", has a meaning a number out of a number?

We've updated our systems so need a bit more info. It only takes a minute. And it'll give you more ways to get the best out of the BBC

This is the "normal meaning of the prepositional phrase 'out of'" category, as in "He went out of the house".
Drag0nspeaker
Posted: Monday, November 14, 2016 11:02:42 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 9/12/2011
Posts: 26,734
Neurons: 145,040
Location: Livingston, Scotland, United Kingdom
Audiendus wrote:
A cooperator wrote:
As a result, I was asking that I don't think that "One stands out from the four" can be expressed as "1 in 4"

That's right – it cannot be expressed as "1 in 4".

That is correct, however, "One out of four" can be expressed as "one in four".

One out of every four men has a beard. = One in every four men has a beard.


Wyrd bið ful aræd - bull!
A cooperator
Posted: Wednesday, September 13, 2017 5:00:23 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 10/27/2011
Posts: 2,277
Neurons: 8,192
Location: Ḩāḑírah, Hadramawt, Yemen
Audiendus wrote:
A cooperator wrote:
As a result, I was asking that I don't think that "One stands out from the four" can be expressed as "1 in 4"

That's right – it cannot be expressed as "1 in 4".


A cooperator wrote:
Finally: Which category do you think 'out of' in this sentence underlined below can be classified to? It can be categorized to "out of", part of the prepositional phrase "out of", has a meaning a number out of a number?

We've updated our systems so need a bit more info. It only takes a minute. And it'll give you more ways to get the best out of the BBC

This is the "normal meaning of the prepositional phrase 'out of'" category, as in "He went out of the house".


Thanks a lot, Audiendus, and Drag0nspeaker,

I was arguing with a friend of mine over whehter this sentence 'you don't see talking in English being interesting' is correct or not.
So, he then replied to me with this sentence "I won't make a problem out of it."
I really still don't understand what 'out of it' means here. Do you think he means 'he will not make a problem out of that sentence'. It means he won't extract a problem from that sentence.

So, do you think that 'out of it' in "I won't make a problem out of it." would be "the prepositional phrase 'out of'" category, as in
He went out of the house.

"Out of", part of the prepositional phrase "out of", It's an idiom, has its normal meaning as extracting something from something else, as in:
1- He went out of the house.
2- Archiving moves a message out of your Inbox without deleting it. To find them later, search or open the Archive folder.
3- We've updated our systems so need a bit more info. It only takes a minute. And it'll give you more ways to get the best out of the BBC.
4- I will get some juice out of an orange.
5- I will get a book out of a bag.
6- Are you "out of" your mind?
7- Have you gone out of your mind? (In Arabic translation is هل جُنِنْتَ؟)



'Out of', part of the prepositional phrase "out of", has an idiomatic meaning "for the sake of" or "motivated by":

1- Are we generous out of kindness or self-interest? => Are we generous for the sake of/motivated by kindness or self-interest?
2- The one who kills out of anger and suspicion is more deserved to be called a pagan.=>The one who kills for the sake of/motivated by anger and suspicion is more deserved to be called a pagan.


Whoever doesn't own what he promises to those who do not deserve must not promise it.
Audiendus
Posted: Sunday, September 17, 2017 9:28:09 AM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 8/24/2011
Posts: 4,260
Neurons: 733,341
Location: London, England, United Kingdom
A cooperator wrote:
I was arguing with a friend of mine over whehter this sentence 'you don't see talking in English being interesting' is correct or not.
So, he then replied to me with this sentence "I won't make a problem out of it."
I really still don't understand what 'out of it' means here. Do you think he means 'he will not make a problem out of that sentence'. It means he won't extract a problem from that sentence.

The verb here is 'make', so the meaning is something like "he will not construct a problem from (the material contained in) that sentence". He will not take the material in that sentence and make a problem with it. As in: "he made a statue out of a block of wood".

"Get the best out of the BBC" and "get some juice out of an orange" are similar to this, except that they refer only to getting the raw material out; they do not have the additional idea of constructing, as "make...out of" does.

A cooperator wrote:
'Out of', part of the prepositional phrase "out of", has an idiomatic meaning "for the sake of" or "motivated by":

1- Are we generous out of kindness or self-interest? => Are we generous for the sake of/motivated by kindness or self-interest?
2- The one who kills out of anger and suspicion is more deserved to be called a pagan.=>The one who kills for the sake of/motivated by anger and suspicion is more deserved to be called a pagan.

This is quite a different meaning.
Users browsing this topic
Guest


Forum Jump
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.

Main Forum RSS : RSS
Forum Terms and Guidelines. Copyright © 2008-2017 Farlex, Inc. All rights reserved.