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You don't see talking in English being interesting.[Hear, see, etc. + object + infinitive or - ing] Options
A cooperator
Posted: Monday, September 11, 2017 7:22:17 PM

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Joined: 10/27/2011
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Location: Ḩāḑírah, Hadramawt, Yemen
Hi Everyone!

I know that we can use either the infinitive without to or the -ing form after the object of verbs such as hear, see, notice, watch. The infinitive without to often emphasises the whole action or event which someone hears or sees. The -ing form usually emphasises an action or event which is in progress or not yet completed.
"Hear, see, etc. + object + infinitive or - ing"

So, "See + an object + verb +ing + complement" can be possible.
"I see you being taught well."

So, do you think that 'being' is incorrect in this sentence below since we cannot have two gerund in a sentence.

You don't see talking in English being interesting.
However, if incorrect, then why 'being' is correct in 'I see you being taught well.'. Also, if I am going to parse it, then I will say:

"you" the subject, 'don't' verb, 'see' finite verb, "talking in English" is the object of the verb 'see', and the 'being' is a verb+ing( indefinite verb), however, 'interesting' is an adjective.





Whoever doesn't own what he promises to those who do not deserve must not promise it.
NKM
Posted: Monday, September 11, 2017 11:16:06 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 2/14/2015
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Location: Corinth, New York, United States
A cooperator wrote:
Hi Everyone!

I know that we can use either the infinitive without to or the -ing form after the object of verbs such as hear, see, notice, watch. The infinitive without to often emphasises the whole action or event which someone hears or sees. The -ing form usually emphasises an action or event which is in progress or not yet completed.
"Hear, see, etc. + object + infinitive or - ing"

So, "See + an object + verb +ing + complement" can be possible.
"I see you being taught well."

So, do you think that 'being' is incorrect in this sentence below since we cannot have two gerund in a sentence.

You don't see talking in English being interesting.
However, if incorrect, then why 'being' is correct in 'I see you being taught well.'. Also, if I am going to parse it, then I will say:

"you" the subject, 'don't' verb, 'see' finite verb, "talking in English" is the object of the verb 'see', and the 'being' is a verb+ing( indefinite verb), however, 'interesting' is an adjective.




══════════════════════════════════════════════

You can parse these sentences according to the rules of grammar, but they don't sound like anything we'd be likely to say.

- "I see you being taught well."
This might be a prophecy uttered by a fortune-teller while gazing into a crystal ball. The rest of us would put it a bit differently: "I see you're being taught well."


- "You don't see talking in English being interesting."
This doesn't quite sound like normal speech; it feels as if there's something missing. We might say: "You don't see talking in English as being interesting."

Drag0nspeaker
Posted: Tuesday, September 12, 2017 4:29:40 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

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Location: Livingston, Scotland, United Kingdom
Hi A Cooperator.

I have not heard a rule saying that you cannot have two gerunds in one sentence.
If there is such a rule it is wrong. You can have a gerund as the subject and another gerund as the object or complement.

"Being Scottish means being a freedom-fighter."

After a verb of perception, I would use 'as' (in the same way NKM does) or a verb like 'means' or some other connector-phrase showing equivalence.

"I see being Scottish as being a freedom-fighter."
"You don't see speaking English as being interesting."
"I understand having a dog as being responsible for a friend."
"I understand having a dog as equivalent to being responsible for a friend."
"I understand having a dog as similar to being responsible for a friend."
"I understand having a dog means being responsible for a friend."

Wyrd bið ful aræd - bull!
A cooperator
Posted: Tuesday, September 12, 2017 8:03:31 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 10/27/2011
Posts: 2,270
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Location: Ḩāḑírah, Hadramawt, Yemen
Drag0nspeaker wrote:
Hi A Cooperator.

I have not heard a rule saying that you cannot have two gerunds in one sentence.
If there is such a rule it is wrong. You can have a gerund as the subject and another gerund as the object or complement.

"Being Scottish means being a freedom-fighter."

After a verb of perception, I would use 'as' (in the same way NKM does) or a verb like 'means' or some other connector-phrase showing equivalence.

"I see being Scottish as being a freedom-fighter."
"You don't see speaking English as being interesting."
"I understand having a dog as being responsible for a friend."
"I understand having a dog as equivalent to being responsible for a friend."
"I understand having a dog as similar to being responsible for a friend."
"I understand having a dog means being responsible for a friend."



Thank you both of you, NKM, Drag0nspeaker,

1- If you mean with after "'hear, see, watch, notice, and simlar verbs of preception ", I would use 'as' (in the same way NKM does) or a verb like 'means' or some other connector-phrase showing equivalence?, then I would be saying I only do read that 'hear, see, watch, notice, and simlar verbs of preception can be followed by object + infinitive(without 'to') or object + -ing form.

We can use 'see/hear, notice' without using 'as' or a verb like 'means' or some other connector-phrase showing equivalence. Look at these examples below:
- I heard him go down the stairs.
I heard him going down the stairs (Not I heard him went down the staris)
- I saw her corss the road.
I saw her corssing the road
- I see you repeat the same words
I see you repeating the same words.


Thus, the same logic can be applied for the -ing form 'being' after a verb of perception, if we can use 'ing' form after a verb of perception, then I can use the -ing form 'being' after 'see' in 'you don't see talking in English being interesting'



Secondly: what do you mean with "or a verb like 'means' or some other connector-phrase showing equivalence"? Do you mean I can say 'You don't see talking in English means interesting." "I see being Scottish means being a freedom-fighter.". If so, then I would be saying we cannot use a conjugated verb after ' the object of a verb of perception'. However, here 'means' is a conjugated verb.



Thirldy:

NKM wrote:
Quote:

"You don't see talking in English being interesting."
This doesn't quite sound like normal speech; it feels as if there's something missing. We might say: "You don't see talking in English as being interesting


But "You don't see talking in English being interesting." is correct grammatically


Fourthly:You don't think we can use the structure "object + past participle" (object + the passive forms 'being+past participle') after 'see' as we use them after 'watch, hear, etc.'
I hear bedroom door being opened slowly.
As I watched the tree being cut down.......

So, NKM said that "I see you being taught well." is incorrect, and it must read as "I see you're being taught well."

Finally: Your correction "I see you're being taught well.' let my sentence be a that-clause', which I didn't intend to be so.




Whoever doesn't own what he promises to those who do not deserve must not promise it.
leonAzul
Posted: Tuesday, September 12, 2017 8:31:13 PM

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"You don't see talking in English being interesting"


It is correct, yet rather obtuse. It means that someone has no interest in speaking in the English language. Perhaps someone thinks that English is irrelevant. Perhaps someone thinks that English competency is not useful. Perhaps other languages are more useful and relevant.

In this context, "to see" means "to agree with an opinion", in this case that speaking English is interesting.

You want what you want. Do it.
Dancing

"Make it go away, Mrs Whatsit," he whispered. "Make it go away. It's evil."
leonAzul
Posted: Tuesday, September 12, 2017 8:35:34 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 8/11/2011
Posts: 8,068
Neurons: 25,548
Location: Miami, Florida, United States
A cooperator wrote:


Fourthly:You don't think we can use the structure "object + past participle" (object + the passive forms 'being+past participle') after 'see' as we use them after 'watch, hear, etc.'
I hear bedroom door being opened slowly.
As I watched the tree being cut down.......

So, NKM said that "I see you being taught well." is incorrect, and it must read as "I see you're being taught well."

Finally: Your correction "I see you're being taught well.' let my sentence be a that-clause', which I didn't intend to be so.




That structure is not natural in English; it is only used poetically, and even then advisedly.

You can hear such utterances informally, but I would not take them as good models for effective communication.
Think


"Make it go away, Mrs Whatsit," he whispered. "Make it go away. It's evil."
Audiendus
Posted: Tuesday, September 12, 2017 9:23:17 PM
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Joined: 8/24/2011
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Location: London, England, United Kingdom
A cooperator wrote:
We can use 'see/hear, notice' without using 'as' or a verb like 'means' or some other connector-phrase showing equivalence. Look at these examples below:
- I heard him go down the stairs.
I heard him going down the stairs (Not I heard him went down the stairs)
- I saw her cross the road.
I saw her crossing the road
- I see you repeat the same words
I see you repeating the same words.


Thus, the same logic can be applied for the -ing form 'being' after a verb of perception, if we can use 'ing' form after a verb of perception, then I can use the -ing form 'being' after 'see' in 'you don't see talking in English being interesting'


We can use the -ing form (without 'as') where the '-ing' verb refers to an action. In the above examples, "going", "crossing" and "repeating" are actions. "Being interesting", however, is an attribute, not an action. "Being interesting" is something that "talking in English" is, not something that it does. It would therefore be more natural to say: "You don't see talking in English as being interesting". (But we would be more likely to say: "You don't find talking in English interesting" or "You don't find it interesting to talk in English".)

We could, however, say: "I saw the child being disobedient", because "being disobedient" refers to an action.

Other examples:

I can't see him agreeing to that. [= I can't imagine him performing the action of saying 'Yes'.]
I can't regard this statement as agreeing to my request. [= I can't regard it as (having the attribute of) being an agreement to my request.]
In my dream I imagined the girl flying. [= performing the action of flying.]
In my dream I imagined her being an angel. [= performing the actions or behaviour of an angel.]
In my dream I imagined her as (being) an angel. [= having the attribute of being an angel.]
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