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Not on the Fourth of July. Options
Epiphileon
Posted: Monday, August 28, 2017 7:36:26 AM

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[Although there will no doubt be political content to many of the replies to this thread, I'm posting it in this forum because I do not see this as primarily a political phenomenon, at its root it is cultural.]

I know now that somewhere in my mind I had to know this day was coming, but minds are very good at fooling themselves. Minds are particularly good at not acknowledging the mortality of those they love very dearly, even if those things are an idea, or an ideal, and their passing will be mourned if not as keenly as a beloved person, the grief is nevertheless profound.

There is also anger, lots of anger, at lots of people, for this ideal did not die of natural causes, it was murdered by both conniving and neglect. Conniving on the part of powerful people whose lust for wealth and power has corrupted "the great experiment". Anger at the researchers who have perfected the art of propaganda to the point that masses of people can be, basically brainwashed into accepting total bullshit stories about the causation of various social conditions, and the motivations of people who pretend to be guardians, and providers of social health.

Anger at the self serving, materialistic, capitalists that are orchestrating the mass deception of we the people, and dismantling the systems that were instituted to protect us from their machinations. And finally anger at us who have allowed this to happen, the us who were once so proudly we the people, but who have through laziness, acceptance of an apparent status quo, and a complete lack of applying vigilant critical thinking to the bullshit being slung over us, have become so meekly, we the sheeple.

It seems just wishful thinking to try and go on not accepting the evidence. Like the great civilizations before it, from the Hittites, Assyrians, and Babylonians, to the Moguls, Austrians, and British, the United States of America's peak is behind it, and its decline in free fall.

There is a fairly good case that the US may have been the first nation to have the necessary information, and the technology to widely disseminate it, to avert its participation in this historic cycle.

So why didn't it?

I realize I'm opening the door for some of the rabid, practically foaming at the fingertip US haters, that so ardently spew their irrational rants here, never at all seeing they are just as guilty of a lack of reason than the most jingoistic of my countrymen, but as I reflected on the state of my nation on this last 4th of July, I realized I was not celebrating the anniversary of the birth of the “Great Experiment” but the death of that bold endeavor.

So again, why did “we the people” let this happen? I have my own notions, but I am curious what some of you think are the signs, symptoms, and causes of the terminal illness that I have become convinced the US suffers from. Or whether you even agree that it does.

ETA Please note this is not a commentary on the current administration, the dynamic is, in a way, independent of of the specific variables of politics.

Question authority. How do you know, that you know, what you know?
Hope123
Posted: Monday, August 28, 2017 11:31:23 AM

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I don't know why, Epi. Probably because the US is like every other country with people who are preoccupied with just trying to survive and somehow have a decent life in this weird situation we call Life.

I believe it is greed, often to the point of selfishness, and the lack of empathy for other people, and not just for those who are similar but those who look, think, and feel differently. As well, generalizations overdone hurt. I also think the rigidity of religious beliefs makes people want to not only believe their own beliefs, but force them onto how others live. I have said before many times that if more people minded their own business we'd be far better off. Mind their own business when it comes to personal affairs but be willing to do informed voting and even work in public service.

Maybe the Chinese and other cultures who have put the group first rather than the individual first have a point.

Although I kept up with the US news, I didn't realize it was happening until the rise of the present phenomenon and was quite happy with the last eight years administration that seemed to be trying to use political negotiations and diplomacy in world affairs as much as possible while still trying to fight terrorism. The American people put a white/black caring empathetic intellectual man into office twice - don't forget that. I mentioned in another thread that I think it is fear of losing their way of life that was stoked that caused the recent backlash and that the "bathroom bills" were the the last straw.

I'm not sure the picture is as bleak as you fear, but I have seen signs compared with previous regime falls and the warnings should be heeded. And they should be heeded all over the world, not just in the US. I don't have time right now to find the list I read of the symptoms and signs but I had just searched online for it.

Maybe all this turmoil will wake up the populaces as I still have faith that the good people far outnumber the bad ones always featured in the media.

Look what's happening in Texas right now - heores from all over the US helping and rescuing others, and sending their donations. Offers of help from her two neighbors north and south. Etc.



Equality is when you see a person - not a label.
jacobusmaximus
Posted: Monday, August 28, 2017 12:00:15 PM

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1 Timothy 6:10 King James Version (KJV)

For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.

If Saint Paul were writing that today he might refer to the love of power. People are selling their souls today for the love of power.


I remember, therefore I am.
TheParser
Posted: Tuesday, August 29, 2017 7:40:36 AM
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Epiphileon wrote:


I realize I'm opening the door for some of the rabid, practically foaming at the fingertip US haters, that so ardently spew their irrational rants here.



And we all know who these haters of the United States are (most of them are non-Americans).

They shamelessly malign our president.
They shamelessly repeat the lie that the United States is still a racist society.

I am confident that the silent majority of members and guests are too intelligent to be fooled by the United States haters' hot air.
Epiphileon
Posted: Wednesday, August 30, 2017 7:31:07 AM

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Hope123 wrote:
I don't know why, Epi. Probably because the US is like every other country with people who are preoccupied with just trying to survive and somehow have a decent life in this weird situation we call Life.

High Hope, Thank you for replying, and I must comment on your apparent aside here. Yes, absolutely our lives are not only a weird but in fact, a totally bizarre experience that we are still largely ignorant, or misinformed, on how to proceed with. Alas that is an entirely different topic, more suited to the philosophy forum. (Although I wonder if the level of interest in topics other than politics, warrants the effort to try and discuss other matters here anymore. I admit to being largely inactive over the last year. I have been very distracted by my own weird situation; however, we obtained what I thought was an incredibly unlikely result of the last years efforts, and managed to secure a permanent domicile.) I have checked in on a fairly regular basis, but I have no stomach for political debate, and as I said, not much else seems to go on anymore. Anyway....

Hope123 wrote:
I don't know why, Epi. Probably because the US is like every other country with people who are preoccupied with just trying to survive and somehow have a decent life...

Yes exactly this is one of the symptoms, one of my reasons for presenting this thread was to see if people identified this one, as well as why, and how, this came to pass. It has not always been this way in this country, or the others that have exhibited this rise and fall cycle.

Hope wrote:
I believe it is greed, often to the point of selfishness, and the lack of empathy for other people, and not just for those who are similar but those who look, think, and feel differently.

This is also a characteristic of a particular point in the historic cycle; however, what I find curious, is that the knowledge of this cycle has been well known for some time now, yet how well disseminated has it been? Considering the dire consequences of this cycle, why has bringing more attention to it, not been a major priority?

Hope wrote:
Maybe the Chinese and other cultures who have put the group first rather than the individual first have a point.


Actually this ideal used to be a part of the American character, even in my lifetime we still had leaders appealing to it,
"And so, my fellow Americans: ask not what your country can do for you — ask what you can do for your country." John F. Kennedy January 20, 1961
BTW I would mark the beginning of the US decline at the assassination of this man, and the last hope for averting or even delaying it, more so with the assassination of his brother. "The Life and Times of Robert Kennedy, is one of the most memorable books I've ever read.

Hope wrote:
I'm not sure the picture is as bleak as you fear,

Had to chuckle at this Hope, I actually soft peddled my position. The larger issue here, the one at the next level of observation, is well into very bleak territory.

Question authority. How do you know, that you know, what you know?
Epiphileon
Posted: Wednesday, August 30, 2017 7:33:26 AM

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TheParser wrote:

I am confident that the silent majority of members and guests are too intelligent to be fooled by the United States haters' hot air.


But what about addressing the content of the OP?

Question authority. How do you know, that you know, what you know?
tunaafi
Posted: Wednesday, August 30, 2017 10:31:18 AM

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TheParser wrote:


They shamelessly malign our president.


Most of the dictionary definitions I have just found for 'malign' say that the unpleasant things that are said are 'often untrue' (AHD), 'untrue' (Collins),'untruths' (Random House), 'misleading or false' (M-W) 'usually unfair' (MacMillan), 'false' (Cambridge).

Unfortunately, most of the unpleasant things said or written about the current president are all too true.


Quote:
They shamelessly repeat the lie that the United States is still a racist society.


Sadly, there is still a great deal of racism in the USA.

"In the view of the U.S. Human Rights Network, a network of scores of U.S. civil rights and human rights organizations, "Discrimination in the United States permeates all aspects of life and extends to all communities of color".[4] While the nature of the views held by average Americans have changed much over the past several decades, surveys by organizations such as ABC News have found that, even recently, large sections of Americans self-admit to holding discriminatory viewpoints; for example, a 2007 article by the organization stated that about one in ten admitted to holding prejudices against Hispanic and Latino Americans and about one in four did so regarding Arab-Americans.[5]"


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racism_in_the_United_States

tunaafi
Posted: Wednesday, August 30, 2017 10:45:45 AM

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Epiphileon wrote:
I realize I'm opening the door for some of the rabid, practically foaming at the fingertip US haters, that so ardently spew their irrational rants here,


Actually, Epi, I don't think we have many US haters here. Many of us are appalled by the words and actions of the current president. Some of us despair at the way successive US governments have meddled in the affairs of other countries, leading to untold suffering for millions of people.

But most of don't hate the United States of America or the American people.
Epiphileon
Posted: Wednesday, August 30, 2017 1:23:18 PM

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tunaafi wrote:

Actually, Epi, I don't think we have many US haters here. Many of us are appalled by the words and actions of the current president. Some of us despair at the way successive US governments have meddled in the affairs of other countries, leading to untold suffering for millions of people.

But most of don't hate the United States of America or the American people.


Thank you Tuna, yes I know, the few that are though are as I said.

Question authority. How do you know, that you know, what you know?
almo 1
Posted: Wednesday, August 30, 2017 8:18:32 PM
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This citation may be relevant to the content of the OP:


LET’S GET SOMETHING STRAIGHT RIGHT OFF. THIS BOOK HAS nothing to do with stories of vampires, werewolves, devil worship, witchcraft, or anything else commonly thought to be of the occult, although there is an unearthly aspect.

Many believers choose to put their faith in such stories, but there is another narrative growing in the public consciousness that can no longer be written off as mere fable: the idea that aliens from outer space or other dimensions may have—or may be trying to—take control of the world.

The word occult, often misconstrued to mean supernatural or magical, actually is defined simply as hidden or concealed. Even so, the word also involves a connection to outer space or the heavens. In astronomical terms, the term occulted equates to an eclipse, in which one heavenly body is masked, or hidden, behind another.

What history is being hidden from us? It would appear that something nonhuman seeks to control the planet Earth and may even have contributed to the advent of modern humankind.

The field of entertainment is no stranger to this idea. The television series V presented benign humanlike aliens visiting Earth, who turn out to be a reptilian race set on conquering our world. Movies like Invasion of the Body Snatchers and books like Robert A. Heinlein’s The Puppet Masters have depicted humans transformed into zombielike pod people after an alien invasion. But these seemingly outrageous concepts haven’t always been the stuff of pulp fantasy novels or television scripts. Rather, they’ve been considered seriously by many people at different times throughout our history.

David Icke, author of the The Biggest Secret, has built a large worldwide following with his claims that certain world leaders, including the British royals, are shape-shifting reptilian aliens who have been on Earth since before written history. According to Icke, these leaders have descended from many generations of reptilian aliens. “A race of interbreeding [reptile-human hybrid] bloodlines … were centered in the Middle East and Near East in the ancient world,” wrote Icke, “and, over the thousands of years since, have expanded their power across the globe … [through] a network of mystery schools and secret societies … creating institutions like religions to mentally and emotionally imprison the masses and set them at war with each other.”

Lest one believe such talk comes only from loony fanatics, consider that none other than the famed scientist Carl Sagan wrote at length in his book The Dragons of Eden about the reptilian complex, which tops the brain stem, the oldest part of the human brain. Sagan said this part is the “seat of aggression, ritual, territoriality and social hierarchy which evolved millions of years ago in our reptilian ancestors.” He equated such characteristics with modern human bureaucratic and political behavior.

― Jim Marrs, Our Occulted History: Who or What Is Trying to Control Our Lives


*******


The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the human mind to correlate all its contents. We live on a placid island of ignorance in the midst of a black sea of infinity, and it was not meant that we should voyage far. The sciences, each straining in its own direction, have hitherto harmed us little; but some day the piecing together of disassociated knowledge will open up such terrifying vistas of reality, and of our frightful position therein, that we shall either go mad from the revelation or flee from the deadly light into the peace and safety of a new dark age.

― HOWARD PHILLIPS LOVECRAFT, The Call of Cthulhu and Other Weird Stories




Hope123
Posted: Thursday, August 31, 2017 12:15:17 AM

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Epi, what is it you think needs to be done to fix it?

Equality is when you see a person - not a label.
Epiphileon
Posted: Thursday, August 31, 2017 5:38:10 AM

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Hope123 wrote:
Epi, what is it you think needs to be done to fix it?


Short answer, nothing short of revolution. It's the first day of school however, and I have to go pick up the kids.

Question authority. How do you know, that you know, what you know?
Hope123
Posted: Thursday, August 31, 2017 10:21:32 AM

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Epiphileon wrote:
Hope123 wrote:
Epi, what is it you think needs to be done to fix it?


Short answer, nothing short of revolution. It's the first day of school however, and I have to go pick up the kids.


Revolution, wow.

Maybe kids will be the answer. Youth often are.

Our schools start back next week, the day after Labour Day.

Equality is when you see a person - not a label.
Epiphileon
Posted: Saturday, September 02, 2017 5:30:18 PM

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Sorry Hope, I think my short answer was misleading, a militant revolution would be a disaster and of course would also fail to bring about anything good, even if it miraculously succeeded somehow. What would be needed is a revolution in thought, attitude, and morality, but sadly this seems increasingly unlikely with every passing year.

The really maddening thing is that the natural cycle is being exacerbated by purposeful effort, and I don't think it is lunatic fringe conspiracy theory to acknowledge this. I still doubt it is the organized effort of any one group, but there are a number of general groups, who in my opinion, are encouraging division, distraction, hedonism, anti-intellectualism, and promoting general malaise with the electorate.

I do believe the contagions of the disease that will bring about these aims were incubated and viralized* in the United States, the first hotbed of entirely unrestrained capitalism. The machinations of the great industrialists of the turn of the 19th to 20th century were largely thwarted, but those people and their ilk did not go away. They have been very big funders into research, both public and private, into the nature of human behavior, at every level of observation. They are back in my opinion, they are better armed than ever, and I see nothing that will stand in their way.

I don't know Hope, I use to harbor a reserve of genuine hope, thinking that people would wake up, that they would actually begin to look behind the curtain, but the smoke and mirrors of the great and powerful may have just gotten too far ahead of the curve, a curve that is being actively suppressed.

* sorry I was lazy and just invoked poetic license.

Question authority. How do you know, that you know, what you know?
tunaafi
Posted: Saturday, September 02, 2017 6:34:34 PM

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Epiphileon wrote:
I use to harbor a reserve of genuine hope, thinking that people would wake up, that they would actually begin to look behind the curtain, but the smoke and mirrors of the great and powerful may have just gotten too far ahead of the curve, a curve that is being actively suppressed.


I used to have hope.

Occasionally that hope has been revived. For all their weaknesses, people like Ralph Nader, Michael Moore, Nick Hanauer, Bernie Sanders (USA) and Jeremy Corbyn (UK), Salvador Allende (Chile), Hugo Rafael Chávez Frías (Venezuela), Nelson Mandela (South Africa), and many others, have occasionally given me a frisson of hope.

But that frisson is soon extinguished, either by the clay feet of some of these people, by their elimination, or by the destruction of what they stood for.

Born in 1946, I was fortunate enough to witness the (apparent) end of the Belgian, British, Dutch, French and Soviet colonial empires; the (apparent) end of US big-business-inspired malign influence in some parts of the world; the (apparent) decline in the shat-upon status and living/working conditions of not-male people, not-white people, not exclusively heterosexual people, not-of-the-right religion/sect people.

I remember times when the CEO's of big companies did not earn a zillion times more than the thousands of people they had just fired. I remember times when the big boys took responsibility for what happened on their watch rather than revel in the government handouts and dismissal of countless minions that ensured their increased bonuses next year.

I have lost hope. I am glad that I don't have long enough left on this earth to see the hopes and aspirations of my youth shattered for ever.

I love my offspring, but I feel guilty that I am handing over to them the world that is to come.
Epiphileon
Posted: Sunday, September 03, 2017 9:45:32 AM

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Yeah Tuna, I know what you mean, even though I was born 10 years later. I have entirely lost hope a couple times, once in the mid 70's, resurrected it in the 80's, sort of completely checked out for the mid 90's and the first few years of this century, came back to what I thought was the worst it could get, only to be surprised for a while, then disappointed, to now being down right afraid, very afraid, for the long term view; however, like you I have far less time left on the planet than I've already spent on it, and I have family, a great job, and plenty of information available to astound and awe me, so oddly I am more happy, and content in life than ever.
(And apparantly still a contender for King of the run on sentence)

I fully realize that accepting contentedness actually makes me part of the problem, I have abnegated my duty to the species.* Oh I try to raise awareness a bit here and there, probably as a sop to my conscience, but you know after six, well four and a half, decades of getting flak for my appraisals of reality, I guess I'm just a bit tired of it all. It may be as well, a natural developmental thing, I would make no assertions along these lines but perhaps the "saving the world" attitude of earlier years passes with the years. I don't really know, and I'm not sure what, or even whether there is any point in doing anything about it at this point. And now I'm just rambling, have to do some more ruminating on it.



* I almost left the following in, but then decided it was veering away from what I meant. I seem to have a stuck queue to the memory of Joni Mitchell's song "Woodstock".
Maybe it's the time of life, or maybe its the time of man, I know who I am, and life is for learning.(unabashed bastardization, sorry Joni)

Question authority. How do you know, that you know, what you know?
Hope123
Posted: Sunday, September 03, 2017 10:00:21 AM

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I too am tired of all the s**t that is happening throughout the world. But as Tov said in the Politically Correct thread this morning - think of what it used to be like not that many years ago in the lifespan of man. We have come a long way but still have far to go. It is slow and hard going.

It seems to me that there is a revolution of sorts going on, with the young requiring changes of how to preserve history to revere the good some people did, but also point out the bad when the standards of the day are applied. Many more are against oppression of all minorities than are for it.

The CDN government is taking heat right now for introducing tax law changes that get rid of some of the loopholes for business. The PM said he wants to help the middle class and this is one way to do it. There was public outcry about the bonuses of Bombardier's exectives, and they backed down. There are things we can do. It is the political will we need. We have to send better people to represent us.

I had to laugh the other day when my two grans took me out to lunch and we actually had a chance to discuss life in general. The 17 year-old said that if people think the millennials are bad (she includes herself as one), wait till those a couple of years younger come up. They are the ones a couple of grades below her. So already she is talking about the younger generation being terrible! 😀 However, quite possibly she is right.

PS - you two are still babies in age. 😀

Equality is when you see a person - not a label.
Romany
Posted: Sunday, September 03, 2017 3:04:38 PM
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Epi -

I didn't like to answer before: what you wrote seemed so personal, somehow.I couldn't think of a single thing to say that might even *sound* appropriate.

Everyone is attached to their homeland with huge, shiny Gorilla Grips that keeps pinging us back there even if not in reality, at least in our hearts. We're pretty much as Donne described us - "part of the continent...". And to feel the feeling that came from your post must be like a physical wrench.

I admire your courage enormously: to feel shame - however misplaced - and express it is so difficult. Yet to keep it inside is even worse, somehow. I also thank you for trusting us enough to share this post with us - despite what you thought would be a barrage of criticism. (Yeah, well, I know it wasn't criticism you feared really- or ever do - but coming on-stage to open oneself up to a lot of blather. It does get so bloody wearying, doesn't it?).

One day, one of my sons did something that I thought was truly amazing, for a stranger. It wasn't just a matter of giving someone a lift, or paying someone's bus-fare if they were short: it took time and commitment. When it had all settled I heard him deflecting thanks by saying: "It was just how my mother brought me up." and I spluttered. Later I said to him "But I never used to witter on about doing for others and all that stuff." What he said back really gave me a jolt: "It's not what a person says, mum, it's how they live. And I've been living with you a fair while, now."

So yeah - we have left problems for the next generation; but we've also given them technology, and astronomy, and science, and beautiful art, and wonderful music. And our parents thought they had been giving us the Cold War and polyester; when in fact they had given us the Moon. And rock n' roll.

But I think that if we ourselves - no matter how old or tired we are - keep on striving for a better world, picking ourselves up every time we fall down, and never compromising on the truth or justice, we will have done the best we can.And they will have been watching.

And they aren't stupid, y'know. Have you SEEN the stuff they're doing now? They're wonderful.* Yep. There's quite a few who are dim bulbs. And others who are a dead loss: probably in about the same mixture of good and bad as there was when we were that age.

But I have faith in the current generation: they'll probably make a bit of a mess at first just like we all did, but I don't think they'll just sit about on their arses watching their country sinking (or exploding!)into oblivion!

*Only last night I saw a programme on those Sydney schoolkids who've been in the news. Hearing that horrible story about the guy who bought a particular medication and then raised the price to $700 per dose, they were incensed. So in Science class they have been learning to process and produce this particular 'miracle drug'. It costs $2 a dose! They want nothing from it than to shame the drug companies and prove we need not be reliant on them! (See, I said they were brilliant!).
jacobusmaximus
Posted: Sunday, September 03, 2017 3:35:44 PM

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Epiphileon wrote:
Yeah Tuna, I know what you mean, even though I was born 10 years later. I have entirely lost hope a couple times, once in the mid 70's, resurrected it in the 80's, sort of completely checked out for the mid 90's and the first few years of this century, came back to what I thought was the worst it could get, only to be surprised for a while, then disappointed, to now being down right afraid, very afraid, for the long term view; however, like you I have far less time left on the planet than I've already spent on it, and I have family, a great job, and plenty of information available to astound and awe me, so oddly I am more happy, and content in life than ever.
(And apparantly still a contender for King of the run on sentence)

I fully realize that accepting contentedness actually makes me part of the problem, I have abnegated my duty to the species.* Oh I try to raise awareness a bit here and there, probably as a sop to my conscience, but you know after six, well four and a half, decades of getting flak for my appraisals of reality, I guess I'm just a bit tired of it all. It may be as well, a natural developmental thing, I would make no assertions along these lines but perhaps the "saving the world" attitude of earlier years passes with the years. I don't really know, and I'm not sure what, or even whether there is any point in doing anything about it at this point. And now I'm just rambling, have to do some more ruminating on it.



* I almost left the following in, but then decided it was veering away from what I meant. I seem to have a stuck queue to the memory of Joni Mitchell's song "Woodstock".
Maybe it's the time of life, or maybe its the time of man, I know who I am, and life is for learning.(unabashed bastardization, sorry Joni)


----- ----- ---- -----

"But they that wait upon the Lord shall renew their strength; they shall mount up with wings as eagles, they shall run and not grow weary, they will walk and not be faint." ISA 40:31.

I post this, Epiphilion, with none other than loving concern, in Christ, whom you know.

I remember, therefore I am.
almo 1
Posted: Sunday, September 03, 2017 4:20:44 PM
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Hope123
Posted: Monday, September 04, 2017 8:27:41 AM

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Epi, perhaps the "revolution" needs to be at the bottom. What I mean is that changing how we teach our young may do more good than trying to change governments or corporations.

The values of creating and staying and nurturing a family have been eroded. Some humans don't seem to have the same commitment to relationships, to marriage, to family, or to a work ethic that used to be the norm.

Children need stability, love, discipline, and fairness and the best place to instill good values is in a family with those characteristics - whether it is traditional or not. Children do grow up and put their stamp on the way the world behaves.

Teachers are no longer revered (are even hindered) for taking somebody else's children for many hours a week and trying to create a good atmosphere for learning the skills of life.

Athletes and celebrities are paid obscene amounts of money while doctors and teachers and all those professions who oil society by doing their jobs are not rewarded in the same way as those who are rewarded too well just for having a talent. Minimum wage requirements are fought all the time everywhere.

Our priorities are all screwed up because of the love of money, fame, and power. We need to teach all of our kids to value family, friends, animals, and nature more than we do right now. And we need to respect those children as humans and treat them better than we do. Far too many are abused emotionally as well as physically, even enslaved or murdered.

Children will do to you or to society what you do to them.

The basic we need to get back to is a family that provides a space of security and support for those in it.

Equality is when you see a person - not a label.
Y111
Posted: Monday, September 04, 2017 9:34:15 AM
Rank: Member

Joined: 6/25/2017
Posts: 128
Neurons: 618
Location: Kurgan, Kurgan, Russia
Hope123 wrote:

The values of creating and staying and nurturing a family have been eroded. Some humans don't seem to have the same commitment to relationships, to marriage, to family, or to a work ethic that used to be the norm.

Some say it's because people have pensions that they don't need children anymore. In the past, children were supposed to feed you when you got old and unable to do it yourself. So everyone had a strong motivation to have them.
jacobusmaximus
Posted: Monday, September 04, 2017 9:49:12 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 4/17/2009
Posts: 10,889
Neurons: 340,464
Location: Glasgow, Scotland, United Kingdom
Y111 wrote:
Hope123 wrote:

The values of creating and staying and nurturing a family have been eroded. Some humans don't seem to have the same commitment to relationships, to marriage, to family, or to a work ethic that used to be the norm.

Some say it's because people have pensions that they don't need children anymore. In the past, children were supposed to feed you when you got old and unable to do it yourself. So everyone had a strong motivation to have them.


Yes, but even stronger motivations were familial love and a sense of duty. These have certainly been eroded.

I remember, therefore I am.
Hope123
Posted: Monday, September 04, 2017 10:58:38 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 3/23/2015
Posts: 6,945
Neurons: 40,339
Location: Burlington, Ontario, Canada
Y111 wrote:
Hope123 wrote:

The values of creating and staying and nurturing a family have been eroded. Some humans don't seem to have the same commitment to relationships, to marriage, to family, or to a work ethic that used to be the norm.

Some say it's because people have pensions that they don't need children anymore. In the past, children were supposed to feed you when you got old and unable to do it yourself. So everyone had a strong motivation to have them.


That is fine - don't have children if your motivation is selfishness. In fact some problems right now are exacerbated by too many people competing for too few resources and space anyhow.

But if you do have them, respect them, treat them as human children and not little adults, love and cherish them, and they will repay in kind to you and to society. They will work to not only make a comfortable living for themselves but to use their talents to better the world and help others, not to become filthy rich themselves. I see it happening all the time.

I also see, at the supermarket or out and about, how some parents disparage and bully their children, thinking it is discipline. If you tell a child just once he/she is stupid, you will have to tell them ten times in different ways you didn't mean it to counteract that once - if you can counteract it at all once you put the thought there.



Equality is when you see a person - not a label.
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