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How long has the water been/become hot?[The present perfect & present perfect continuous] Options
A cooperator
Posted: Saturday, August 05, 2017 6:07:46 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 10/27/2011
Posts: 2,453
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Location: Ḩāḑírah, Hadramawt, Yemen
Hi everyone!
If someone was asking another one when he had surprised that a running water always used to be cold became suddenly hot(Water reversed from the coldness case to the hotness case due to unknown scary reason, and a dangerous sign.), which can he say,
How long has the water been/become hot?
What is the difference?

Whoever doesn't own what he promises to those who do not deserve must not promise it.
sureshot
Posted: Saturday, August 05, 2017 8:05:14 AM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 9/16/2015
Posts: 1,841
Neurons: 342,136
A cooperator wrote:
Hi everyone!
If someone was asking another one when he had surprised that a running water always used to be cold became suddenly hot(Water reversed from the coldness case to the hotness case due to unknown scary reason, and a dangerous sign.), which can he say,
How long has the water been/become hot?
What is the difference?

___________________

Both the suggestions are incorrect in the given situation. The following question should be okay:

- How has the water become hot (suddenly)?
A cooperator
Posted: Saturday, August 05, 2017 8:54:02 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 10/27/2011
Posts: 2,453
Neurons: 8,935
Location: Ḩāḑírah, Hadramawt, Yemen
sureshot wrote:
A cooperator wrote:
Hi everyone!
If someone was asking another one when he had surprised that a running water always used to be cold became suddenly hot(Water reversed from the coldness case to the hotness case due to unknown scary reason, and a dangerous sign.), which can he say,
How long has the water been/become hot?
What is the difference?

___________________

Both the suggestions are incorrect in the given situation. The following question should be okay:

- How has the water become hot (suddenly)?


Thanks a lot, surehot
Yes. But bear in mind that the questioner was used to that water in that fountain was cold. So, when he noticed that water became hot, he was asking to know the beginning time when the fountain water became hot and was still hot until the time he was testing it.
So, I think the "how long" plus "present perfect should be used.
As the same thing when I am going to ask a person this question "How long have you been here", I will surely intend to know the time when he/she has been here.

Whoever doesn't own what he promises to those who do not deserve must not promise it.
sureshot
Posted: Saturday, August 05, 2017 9:21:58 AM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 9/16/2015
Posts: 1,841
Neurons: 342,136
A cooperator wrote:
But bear in mind that the questioner was used to that water in that fountain was cold. So, when he noticed that water became hot, he was asking to know the beginning time when the fountain water became hot and was still hot until the time he was testing it.
So, I think the "how long" plus "present perfect should be used.
As the same thing when I am going to ask a person this question "How long have you been here", I will surely intend to know the time when he/she has been here.

_________________

The context of the situation can lead to a change in question. As I see it now, the questioner is very keen to know the duration of the hot water being spouted (out) from the fountain. In such a situation, the question can be:

(For) how long has the fountain been spouting hot water?

We normally use the present perfect continuous for something that started in the past and continues in the present. The present perfect tense is usually used to describe something that happened in the past and is complete. In this case, it seems the situation is still existing when the questioner sought a reply. Your statement "... fountain water became hot and was still hot until the time he was testing it" confirms this situation.
NKM
Posted: Saturday, August 05, 2017 12:24:04 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 2/14/2015
Posts: 4,192
Neurons: 192,531
Location: Corinth, New York, United States
"How long has the water been running hot?"

Wilmar (USA)
Posted: Saturday, August 05, 2017 12:36:16 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 6/4/2015
Posts: 794
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Location: Vinton, Iowa, United States
What NKM said, or, How long has the water been hot?
Romany
Posted: Saturday, August 05, 2017 3:03:18 PM
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Joined: 6/14/2009
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Location: Brighton, England, United Kingdom

Yep! Shorter the better: "How long's the water been hot?" is what we'd say.
A cooperator
Posted: Saturday, August 05, 2017 10:20:51 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 10/27/2011
Posts: 2,453
Neurons: 8,935
Location: Ḩāḑírah, Hadramawt, Yemen
Romany wrote:

Yep! Shorter the better: "How long's the water been hot?" is what we'd say.


Thank you all of you very much indeed,
Romany and Wilmar (USA)
That was what I had said in the very first post of mine. I thought so since when seeing someone in a place, and am willing to know the duration when he had come to this place, then I could ask him/her 'how long have you been here'. This means a person to be asked has been here since a period, and I wanted to know that period.

However, I have been asking in my very first post "which do you think is the better to be said, 'how long has the water been hot', or 'how long has the water become hot?'? And why?"

I think 'been' and 'become' are both linking verbs?

Whoever doesn't own what he promises to those who do not deserve must not promise it.
A cooperator
Posted: Saturday, August 05, 2017 10:50:03 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 10/27/2011
Posts: 2,453
Neurons: 8,935
Location: Ḩāḑírah, Hadramawt, Yemen
sureshot wrote:
A cooperator wrote:
But bear in mind that the questioner was used to that water in that fountain was cold. So, when he noticed that water became hot, he was asking to know the beginning time when the fountain water became hot and was still hot until the time he was testing it.
So, I think the "how long" plus "present perfect should be used.
As the same thing when I am going to ask a person this question "How long have you been here", I will surely intend to know the time when he/she has been here.

_________________

The context of the situation can lead to a change in question. As I see it now, the questioner is very keen to know the duration of the hot water being spouted (out) from the fountain. In such a situation, the question can be:

(For) how long has the fountain been spouting hot water?

We normally use the present perfect continuous for something that started in the past and continues in the present. The present perfect tense is usually used to describe something that happened in the past and is complete. In this case, it seems the situation is still existing when the questioner sought a reply. Your statement "... fountain water became hot and was still hot until the time he was testing it" confirms this situation.


Thank you so much indeed,
Surehot and NKM
Spot on 'The present perfect tense is usually used to describe something that happened in the past and is complete.'
This means that asking this question 'how long have you been here?' to a person seen in a place and still there to know the period when he has been here would be incorrect. "Have you been" is the present perfect tense. However, the situation happened in the past is still existing when the questioner sought reply. So, the situation that happened in the past is still NOT complete.

Yes, you're correct we use the present perfect continuous for something that started in the past and continues in the present.
However, we also use 'how long' plus 'present perfect' for something that started in the past and continues in the present.
For example:
How long have you been here?
How long has the water hot?


We can also use the present perfect continuous for something that started in the past and continues in the present.
For example:
How long has the water been running hot?
(For) how long has the fountain been spouting hot water?

But, I don't think that I can use the present perfect continuous for asking about the period a person spent in a place although the person is still existing in that place when the questioner sought a reply.
I cannot think of it as 'how long have you been existing here? - Where 'have you been existing' is the present perfect continuous?
As a result, i think 'how long have you been here' can only be used in this situation.




Whoever doesn't own what he promises to those who do not deserve must not promise it.
NKM
Posted: Monday, August 07, 2017 12:30:22 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 2/14/2015
Posts: 4,192
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Location: Corinth, New York, United States
"How long has the water become hot? " does not make sense. At some time in the past it became hot; now it already is hot.

If this has happened before, you might ask, "How often has the water become hot? "

A cooperator
Posted: Tuesday, August 08, 2017 7:37:49 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 10/27/2011
Posts: 2,453
Neurons: 8,935
Location: Ḩāḑírah, Hadramawt, Yemen
A cooperator wrote:
sureshot wrote:
[quote=A cooperator] But bear in mind that the questioner was used to that water in that fountain was cold. So, when he noticed that water became hot, he was asking to know the beginning time when the fountain water became hot and was still hot until the time he was testing it.
So, I think the "how long" plus "present perfect should be used.
As the same thing when I am going to ask a person this question "How long have you been here", I will surely intend to know the time when he/she has been here.

_________________

The context of the situation can lead to a change in question. As I see it now, the questioner is very keen to know the duration of the hot water being spouted (out) from the fountain. In such a situation, the question can be:

(For) how long has the fountain been spouting hot water?

We normally use the present perfect continuous for something that started in the past and continues in the present. The present perfect tense is usually used to describe something that happened in the past and is complete. In this case, it seems the situation is still existing when the questioner sought a reply. Your statement "... fountain water became hot and was still hot until the time he was testing it" confirms this situation.


Thank you so much indeed, NKM,
An excellent summarized explanation. Applause

But could you please address and remove the ambiguity here below.
Surehot said the following 'We normally use the present perfect continuous for something that started in the past and continues in the present. The present perfect tense is usually used to describe something that happened in the past and is complete.', I sopt on.
Having said above means that asking this question 'How long have you been here?' to a person seen in a place and still there to know the period when he has been here would be incorrect. "Have you been" is the present perfect tense. However, the situation happened in the past is still existing when the questioner sought reply. So, the situation that happened in the past is still NOT complete.

Yes, you're correct we use the present perfect continuous for something that started in the past and continues in the present.
However, we also use 'How long' plus 'present perfect' for something that started in the past and continues in the present.
For example:
How long have you been here?
How long has the water been hot?


We can also use the present perfect continuous for something that started in the past and continues in the present.
For example:
How long has the water been running hot?
(For) how long has the fountain been spouting hot water?

But, I don't think that I can use the present perfect continuous for asking about the period a person spent in a place although the person is still existing in that place when the questioner sought a reply.
I cannot think of it as 'How long have you been existing here? - Where 'have you been existing' is the present perfect continuous?
As a result, I think 'How long have you been here?' can only be used in this situation.

Also, you think there is different in saying:
How long has the water been hot?
And saying either of both below:
How long has the water been running hot?
(For) how long has the fountain been spouting hot water?



Whoever doesn't own what he promises to those who do not deserve must not promise it.
NKM
Posted: Tuesday, August 08, 2017 5:40:04 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 2/14/2015
Posts: 4,192
Neurons: 192,531
Location: Corinth, New York, United States
There's a difference between "be" as a main verb and "be" as a helping verb.

"How long have you been here?" deals with a situation that began in the past and is still in effect.

"How long have you been doing this?" deals with an action that began in the past and is still in progress.

"How long have you been coming here?" is about an action that occurred repeatedly in the past and is now complete (though it may well occur again in the future.)

I'm always leery of explanations that use extra "understood" or "implied" words to make a point. Sometimes those work well, but they can be cumbersome.

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