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I wish that I could... /I wish if I could..... [Conditional sentences] Options
A cooperator
Posted: Thursday, July 13, 2017 4:31:55 PM

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Location: Ḩāḑírah, Hadramawt, Yemen
Hi,
As far as I know that these structures below are kinds of the conditional sentence.
I wish that I had had much money.
I wish that I had much money.
If I had had much money, I would had been much happier.
If I had much money, I would had been much happier.
However, I don't know if "if-clause" can be mixed with "wish" to create a conditional sentence.
I wish if I could add someone[Skype] from Yemen or any Arab country. 😋


Whoever doesn't own what he promises to those who do not deserve must not promise it.
tunaafi
Posted: Thursday, July 13, 2017 5:34:59 PM

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Location: Karlín, Praha, Czech Republic
A cooperator wrote:

I wish that I had had much money.
I wish that I had much money.
If I had had much money, I would had been much happier.


These, especially the first two, would be more natural with 'a lot of money'.
Only the third is a conditional sentence.


Quote:
If I had much money, I would had been much happier.

That one is incorrect. There is no 'would had' form in English.

Quote:
I wish if I could add someone[Skype] from Yemen or any Arab country.

That sentence is not possible.
A cooperator
Posted: Thursday, July 13, 2017 7:14:31 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 10/27/2011
Posts: 2,267
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Location: Ḩāḑírah, Hadramawt, Yemen
tunaafi wrote:


These, especially the first two, would be more natural with 'a lot of money'.
Only the third is a conditional sentence.


Thanks a lot, Tunaafi
Yes, but as far as know that 'much' and 'a lot' can modify uncountable nouns. Why do you think 'a lot' is more natural than 'much' in "I wish that I had had much money." and "I wish that I had much money." And it is OK in "If I had had much money, I would had been much happier?"

Besides, what do you call 'I wish I could have a lot of money', I thought it's a conditional sentence expressing about the desire, which is not in reality.



Quote:

Quote:
If I had much money, I would had been much happier.

That one is incorrect. There is no 'would had' form in English.


Yes, I forgot the structure of conditional sentences, and I though that 'Would + Past Perfect Tense'.
I think it should have been written:
If I had had much money, I would have been much happier.

Quote:

Quote:
I wish if I could add someone[Skype] from Yemen or any Arab country.

That sentence is not possible.


Why do you think this is impossible. Where is the wrong? Is it in adding 'if'?




Whoever doesn't own what he promises to those who do not deserve must not promise it.
leonAzul
Posted: Thursday, July 13, 2017 9:26:13 PM

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Location: Miami, Florida, United States
A cooperator wrote:


Why do you think this is impossible. Where is the wrong? Is it in adding 'if'?




Yes, that is the fault.


"Make it go away, Mrs Whatsit," he whispered. "Make it go away. It's evil."
leonAzul
Posted: Thursday, July 13, 2017 9:38:58 PM

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A cooperator wrote:

If I had had much money, I would had been much happier.


This needs to be: "If I had had much money, I would have been much happier. "

The general guideline is that the subjunctive (the "if" clause that explains the necessity) needs to be one step earlier than the conditional (the statement that relies on a condition to be true).

If the "if clause" had been past subjunctive, then the "then clause" would have been present perfect conditional. If the "if clause" is present indicative, then the "then clause" will be future. There are subtle variations on this, but they are just that: variations that might or might not be meaningful.

"Make it go away, Mrs Whatsit," he whispered. "Make it go away. It's evil."
A cooperator
Posted: Friday, July 14, 2017 1:39:41 AM

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Location: Ḩāḑírah, Hadramawt, Yemen
leonAzul wrote:
A cooperator wrote:


Why do you think this is impossible. Where is the wrong? Is it in adding 'if'?




Yes, that is the fault.

Thanks a lot, LeonAzul
I only gussed that adding "if" make that sentence impossible. But, I don't know the reason, explanation.
I wish if I could add someone[Skype] from Yemen or any Arab country.


Whoever doesn't own what he promises to those who do not deserve must not promise it.
tunaafi
Posted: Friday, July 14, 2017 1:56:56 AM

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Location: Karlín, Praha, Czech Republic
A cooperator wrote:
Why do you think 'a lot' is more natural than 'much' in "I wish that I had had much money." and "I wish that I had much money."


We tend to prefer 'a lot' to 'much' in affirmative sentences.


Quote:
And it is OK in "If I had had much money, I would had been much happier?"


I didn't say it was OK. I merely said that it was particularly unnatural in the other two. It possibly sounds less unnatural in a hypothetical conditional sentence, because that implies a negative - I did not have much money.

Quote:
Besides, what do you call 'I wish I could have a lot of money', I thought it's a conditional sentence expressing about the desire, which is not in reality.


It's an expression of regret. You can't have a conditional sentence without a condition, usually introduced by some expression such as if, unless, provided (that), on condition (that).


A cooperator
Posted: Friday, July 14, 2017 2:48:11 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

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Location: Ḩāḑírah, Hadramawt, Yemen
tunaafi wrote:
[/color]

It's an expression of regret. You can't have a conditional sentence without a condition, usually introduced by some expression such as if, unless, provided (that), on condition (that).



Thanks a lot, tunaafi
But may I repeat the same question raised to LeonAzul since I think he is offline now because it is about 2:47 am in some parts of the US?
I only guessed that adding "if" make that sentence impossible. But, I don't know the reason, explanation if I was asked.
I wish if I could add someone[Skype] from Yemen or any Arab country.


Whoever doesn't own what he promises to those who do not deserve must not promise it.
tunaafi
Posted: Friday, July 14, 2017 2:52:07 AM

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Joined: 6/3/2014
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Location: Karlín, Praha, Czech Republic
A cooperator wrote:

I wish if I could add someone[Skype] from Yemen or any Arab country.


The 'if' simply makes no sense.
leonAzul
Posted: Friday, July 14, 2017 1:23:37 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 8/11/2011
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Location: Miami, Florida, United States
A cooperator wrote:

I only guessed that adding "if" make that sentence impossible. But, I don't know the reason, explanation if I was asked.
I wish if I could add someone[Skype] from Yemen or any Arab country.


The problem is that in an attempt to oversimplify the language, many teachers of English have only succeeded in making it far more complicated and less intuitive.

Even though the forms of the verbs look similar, if not identical in some examples, there is a very real distinction between subjunctive and conditional clauses, and not a myriad of meaningless conditionals.

In this example, one of the ways that the verb "to wish" is used is to introduce a subjunctive that would satisfy the wishing. The way the word "if" is used is to introduce a subjunctive that would satisfy a conditional. You can't have both, there can only be one.



"Make it go away, Mrs Whatsit," he whispered. "Make it go away. It's evil."
A cooperator
Posted: Saturday, July 15, 2017 5:54:11 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 10/27/2011
Posts: 2,267
Neurons: 8,142
Location: Ḩāḑírah, Hadramawt, Yemen
leonAzul wrote:
A cooperator wrote:

I only guessed that adding "if" make that sentence impossible. But, I don't know the reason, explanation if I was asked.
I wish if I could add someone[Skype] from Yemen or any Arab country.


The problem is that in an attempt to oversimplify the language, many teachers of English have only succeeded in making it far more complicated and less intuitive.

Even though the forms of the verbs look similar, if not identical in some examples, there is a very real distinction between subjunctive and conditional clauses, and not a myriad of meaningless conditionals.

In this example, one of the ways that the verb "to wish" is used is to introduce a subjunctive that would satisfy the wishing. The way the word "if" is used is to introduce a subjunctive that would satisfy a conditional. You can't have both, there can only be one.



Thank you both of you very much indeed,

That was a quite excellent and satisfying explanation.
However, you don't think that 'if-clause' can be used to introduce a subjunctive that would satisfy the wishing.
I, myself, never ever came across such that.


Whoever doesn't own what he promises to those who do not deserve must not promise it.
Audiendus
Posted: Saturday, July 15, 2017 7:25:49 PM
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Joined: 8/24/2011
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Location: London, England, United Kingdom
If you want to use "if", you can say:

A cooperator wrote:
I wish I would be happy if I could add someone[Skype] from Yemen or any Arab country.

Here, the condition is "if I could add someone...". If that condition were fulfilled, you would be happy.

But this doesn't work with "wish". "Wishing" is something you are actually doing now, not something you would do if a condition were fulfilled. In "I wish [that] I could...", the phrase "[that] I could..." is the direct object of "wish". What do you wish? Answer: that you could add someone. "If" does not make sense there.
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