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Tomahawk71
Posted: Friday, June 23, 2017 10:32:17 AM

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Location: İstanbul, Istanbul, Turkey
Quote:

'Stella was too common for you, Felix, wasn't she?'
'Not at all,' said D'Arcy quickly. 'I would not have you say that of me, Terence. I am by no means discriminatory in the matter of class; merely of manners. I grant you, in that particular field, I found her wanting.'
'In many ways she was just what we needed,' Fielding continued, addressing Smiley and ignoring D'Arcy. 'She was everything we're forced to ignore—she was red-brick, council estates, new towns, the very antithesis of Carne!' He turned suddenly to D'Arcy and said, 'But to you, Felix, she was just bad form.'
'Not at all; merely unsuitable.'


Later:
"He got out at the station and made his way to the red-brick Tabernacle." (There is a red-brick Tabernacle in Carne.)

End of Quote

What does "red-brick, council estates, new towns" mean here?
She is red-brick.
She is council estates.
She is new towns.

Is she a something brand new for Carne people?
thar
Posted: Friday, June 23, 2017 11:43:20 AM

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No, this is the building material - buildings made of red brick.

Look up the definition of a red-brick university - as opposed to one like Oxford or Cambridge, housed in great stone buildings hundreds of years old.


If you are middle class, live on a housing estate, work in an office and your children go to the local state school, you are red-brick.

Modern, utilitarian buildings are built of red brick.



She was common! (An insult - the opposite of classy)

But if you come from an 'old' family, have some money, send your children to a public school (like Carne) then your house is several hundred years old. And made of stone!




This is all about class.







Tomahawk71
Posted: Friday, June 23, 2017 11:46:13 AM

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I see! Thank you, Thar!
Drag0nspeaker
Posted: Friday, June 23, 2017 11:53:36 AM

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You have to think with the whole system.

Carne was (in the book) a private school - you've seen the images in other threads.

The pupils at this kind of school would come from a family who lived in a six-bedroom, three bathroom manor house with ten servants and their own forest.



She was from a normal family - either from an ordinary family house (red brick):



or from a council estate - where the housing is in apartments, owned by the local town council and rented:



"New towns" were similar housing estates, but built miles outside London or other city - a village of a few hundred people would become a new town of many thousands in a few months. They were not liked as homes.

**************
The red-brick Tabernacle is a simple description - the building was built of red bricks.

***********
Edit - I started this post before thar had posted, but kept being interrupted.
Luckily, we said more or less the same thing.


Wyrd bið ful aræd - bull!
Tomahawk71
Posted: Saturday, June 24, 2017 6:58:09 AM

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Thanky you, too, Dragon! :)
FounDit
Posted: Saturday, June 24, 2017 12:29:25 PM

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Don't you just love the term "council estates"? Yeah, those look like "estates"...Whistle


A great many people will think they are thinking when they are merely rearranging their prejudices. ~ William James ~
Drag0nspeaker
Posted: Saturday, June 24, 2017 12:36:34 PM

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In Scotland, they're called 'Schemes'.

This sort of archetypical person is known as a 'schemie'.




The hat and the jogging-suit are vital - but definitely no jogging!


Wyrd bið ful aræd - bull!
Харбин Хэйлунцзян 1
Posted: Saturday, June 24, 2017 1:53:25 PM

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Location: Dzerzhinskiy, Moskovskaya, Russia
Drag0nspeaker wrote:
In Scotland, they're called 'Schemes'.

Ponzi schemes?

Joking. :)

I wouldn't mind living in those:



And do not see anything wrong with the use of the word 'estate'. It's not a single house but

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/estate

Quote:
es·tate (ĭ-stāt′)
n.
1. A landed property, usually of considerable size.




აბა ყვავებს ვინ დაიჭერს, კარგო? გალიაში ბულბულები ზიან.
Romany
Posted: Saturday, June 24, 2017 5:04:41 PM
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Indeed - there are a number of meanings to the word 'estate' in BE, Харбин.

Council estates or housing estates are large tracts of land which once belonged only to one family. After WW2 many of the landed gentry had lost their lives, families died out, and society changed. Many of the impoverished gentry had to sell not just the grand old houses, but their entire estate (which sometimes included whole villages!) Some stayed in the main house but sold off their acres of land, fields, meadows, cottages i.e. they sold off their estates; or the next generation did in order to pay death duties! So Councils were able to acquire these ancient estates.

Thus the land becomes a Council Estate rather than Lord Malvern's Estate. Smaller manors and farm also became impossible to maintain and developers moved in and bought those, in order to build spec. houses. These were the Housing Estates.

Oh and the guys in Drago's pictures? In England they're called 'Chav's in the UK and 'Bogan's in Australia.
Sarrriesfan
Posted: Saturday, June 24, 2017 5:43:18 PM
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Council estates were actually largely a post World War One phenomenon, they were created due to the desire to create "Homes for Hereos" and clear slums in large cities like London.
The Housing Act of 1919 had an aim to create 500,000 new homes and provided money from the Government for local Councils to by large tracts of land and build new houses.
http://www.parliament.uk/about/living-heritage/transformingsociety/towncountry/towns/overview/councilhousing/
There were smaller efforts to build council houses before this but not on the same scale.

The building program continued for many years and there was another great period of house building after World War Two as Rom says.

I lack the imagination for a witty signature.
Romany
Posted: Sunday, June 25, 2017 9:02:05 AM
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Sarries - of course you're correct.

I concentrated on the WW2 housing boom because a couple of members believe that older history has no relevance. So, as this was not a *history* of public housing but part of an explanation of why in BE we don't find the word 'estate' a particularly hilarious one, I decided to frame it in a more recent context than that of 100+ years ago.

Which just goes to show (me)that it's silly to try to tailor answers - I've done it on a couple of occasions and each time it's backfired, revealing me as an idiot!! Anxious
Sarrriesfan
Posted: Sunday, June 25, 2017 12:04:15 PM
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That explains it Rom, it's a shame that some people think tha older history is irrelevant, if an explanation requires us to go back 100 or even 200 years I am of the opinion we should.

I lack the imagination for a witty signature.
Drag0nspeaker
Posted: Sunday, June 25, 2017 12:11:57 PM

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Joined: 9/12/2011
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Location: Livingston, Scotland, United Kingdom
Sarrriesfan wrote:
That explains it Rom, it's a shame that some people think tha older history is irrelevant, if an explanation requires us to go back 100 or even 200 years I am of the opinion we should.

Sometimes, I even go back as far as my early school days!


Wyrd bið ful aræd - bull!
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