The Free Dictionary  
mailing list For webmasters
Welcome Guest Forum Search | Active Topics | Members

'Personal titles' and 'job titles' Options
A cooperator
Posted: Wednesday, May 17, 2017 7:45:53 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 10/27/2011
Posts: 2,154
Neurons: 7,596
Location: Ḩāḑírah, Hadramawt, Yemen
Hi Everyone!
As far as I know:

A job title can describe the responsibilities of the position, the level of the job, or both. For example, job titles that include the terms executive, manager, director, chief, supervisor, etc. are typically used for management jobs.

However, I think there are some kinds of title to be used in different situations.




What is the difference between 'job title' and 'speciality'?

What difference is there between 'job title' and personal title'? If personal title can be 'Sir/Madam/Ms/Mr/Mrs/Miss, then I can type in the personal title "Mr" in my screen shot below for male someone, even if he is a farmer, trucker.etc?

What let me ask this questions is that while adding contacts to my Windows10 user account's contacts folder, looking at Windows 10 Contact Form, I found there is 'personal title' and 'job title' (screen shots below). As a result, I got a little bit confused what I can type in both?








1- Academic job titles::
Teaching Assistatn
Research Associate
Lecturer
Assistant Instructor
Assistant Professor
Co-professor/Associate Professor
Professor


2- Ordinary Job titles used to describe a person job
Accountant
secretary
Business man
Property Owner
plumber
The general Secretary of the vice rector for the Academic affairs
Employees affairs.
clerk
salesclerk
Jeweler
Herbalist
healthcare assistant
upholsterer
Computer Specialist
Laboratory Technician(lab tech)


3- Personal Titles, like those used in emails and letters to greet a person(Title + family name if known):

Sir/Madam,
.....
Yours faithfully,

Mr ----- Mr Peter Ericson,
.......
Yours sincerely,

Ms ------ Ms Alaryani,
......
Yours sincerely,

Mrs ----- Dear Mrs Fernandez,
......
Yours sincerely,

Miss. --- Miss Nancy Allen,
.........
Yours Sincerely,

Dr ---- Dr Saeed Darwish,
....
Yours Sincerely,

The manager, Human Resources,
Yours faithfully,

Chairman, Department of Modern Languages,
......
Yours faithfully,



Whoever doesn't own what he promises to those who do not deserve must not promise it.
Jyrkkä Jätkä
Posted: Thursday, May 18, 2017 3:30:45 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 9/21/2009
Posts: 37,914
Neurons: 248,212
Location: Helsinki, Southern Finland Province, Finland
Mr, Ms, Sir, and such are indeed personal titles, used when addressing someone. They also tell the gender.
Chairman of the Board, Accountant, and Systems Specialist are job titles. These aren't normally used when addressing someone. The there are these Dr, Professor, Father (priest) and such, that can be used for both.



In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.
leonAzul
Posted: Thursday, May 18, 2017 12:47:44 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 8/11/2011
Posts: 7,874
Neurons: 24,689
Location: Miami, Florida, United States
A cooperator wrote:


What is the difference between 'job title' and 'speciality'?


You generally have the right ideas about the differences. There are some things about American corporate culture that might need further explanation. I would not assume that all of what I suggest is customary anywhere else in the world.

The phrase 'job title' always refers to name of the position someone holds in an organization. This may or may not include a description of the specialty or the department in which one works. It typical refers to the level of responsibility, such as 'officer', 'manager', 'supervisor', 'operator', 'representative', 'assistant', etc.

There are differences between executive, managerial, and operative. If I might make a joke, executives dream it up, managers assign the tasks, and operatives get them done. Whistle How this is reflected in the typical job title will depend on the type of business. As your own examples suggest, the way a university is organized will be very different from a milk bottling plant, a lumber store, or an automobile body shop.

The type and size of the organization will also determine what, if any, 'departments' exist.

I assume this is for a contact sheet or address book, in which case the field 'Office' refers to the geographical location for a company with multiple offices in different places.

"Make it go away, Mrs Whatsit," he whispered. "Make it go away. It's evil."
A cooperator
Posted: Friday, May 19, 2017 5:05:13 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 10/27/2011
Posts: 2,154
Neurons: 7,596
Location: Ḩāḑírah, Hadramawt, Yemen
Thank you both of you very much indeed,

However, I still don't get the What difference is there between 'job title' and 'personal title'?. In each contact sheet, there is a job title, and personal title. If personal title can be 'Sir/Madam/Ms/Mr/Mrs/Miss, then what will the personal title depend on? I.e. I can type in that field for anyone person one of these titles, Mr, Ms, Mrs, Miss, etc according to the gender. I can type in "Mr" for male someone whatever his speciality, even if he is a farmer, trucker, educated person.etc, then I type in its personal title?

leonAzul wrote:

Quote:
I assume this is for a contact sheet or address book, in which case the field 'Office' refers to the geographical location for a company with multiple offices in different places.


If the person works for a university, then I type in the office field, "the college name" he/she works at, and in the company field, I type in the university name.



Whoever doesn't own what he promises to those who do not deserve must not promise it.
Jyrkkä Jätkä
Posted: Friday, May 19, 2017 5:17:20 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 9/21/2009
Posts: 37,914
Neurons: 248,212
Location: Helsinki, Southern Finland Province, Finland
J.R.R. Tolkien could be titled as writer, poet, philogist, and university professor (job).

His personal title was Mr, since he was only awarded as CBE, Commander of the Most Excellent Order of the British Empire. Had he been awarded as GBE or KBE, he would have been addressed as Sir.


In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.
Drag0nspeaker
Posted: Friday, May 19, 2017 6:10:32 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 9/12/2011
Posts: 25,631
Neurons: 134,400
Location: Livingston, Scotland, United Kingdom
Personal titles are different from country to country.

In Britain, people are normally known as "Mr Smith", "Ms Jones", "Mr P. Smith" or Ms J Jones". They are the very common ones.
Then you may also know someone who has decided to be "Miss" or "Mrs".

If someone has earned another title, you use that:
"Rev. P Perkins" (any ordained minister)
(Some religious people have other titles "Most reverend", etc)
"Professor P. Black" (in charge of a whole department of a university)
"Professor Black" (in charge of a whole department of a university)
"Doctor White" - someone who has a doctorate of any sort - medicine, philosophy, divinity etc
"Doctor P. White" (the same)
"J. Jones KBE" (a Knight of the British Empire)
"Sir John Jones" or "Sir John" (never "Sir J. Jones")
"Malcolm, Lord Bute", "Lord Bute" (or "Sir Malcolm" verbally)
"Lady McNair", or "Lady Margaret McNair", or "Lady Margaret".

If you are a friend of the person, you will know what personal title they use - some lords and knights and doctors call themselves "Mr" or "Ms", so that is the personal title they have chosen.

For the data field you are using, "Sir/Madam" or "The manager" or "Chairman" do NOT work.
What the program needs to know is what to put before the person's name.

"The Manager" or "Chairman" are Post titles.

"Sir/Madam" are titles of address, not personal titles. They are how you address someone when you don't know their real personal title"Can I help you, Sir?", "Good morning, Madam."
If you know their personal title you can use that. "Good morning, Professor."

Quote:
If the person works for a university, then I type in the office field, "the college name" he/she works at, and in the company field, I type in the university name.
That sounds perfectly logical to me.

Personal title: Sir
Name: Michael Moore
Post title: Managing Director
Office: Livingston Facility
Company: Acme Explosives Ltd.

Personal title: Mr
Name: Peter Purvis
Post title: Cleaner
Office: Livingston Facility
Company: Acme Explosives Ltd.

Personal title: Professor
Name: John Harlington-Smythe
Post title: Professor of Mathematics
Office: Magdalene College
Company: University of Cambridge

Personal title: Doctor
Name: Mary McNee
Post title: Director of Research
Office: Rutherford House, Glasgow
Company: Atomic Energy Authority

Wyrd bið ful aræd - bull!
A cooperator
Posted: Friday, May 19, 2017 8:53:01 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 10/27/2011
Posts: 2,154
Neurons: 7,596
Location: Ḩāḑírah, Hadramawt, Yemen
Drag0nspeaker wrote:


Quote:
If the person works for a university, then I type in the office field, "the college name" he/she works at, and in the company field, I type in the university name.
That sounds perfectly logical to me.

Personal title: Sir
Name: Michael Moore
Post title: Managing Director
Office: Livingston Facility
Company: Acme Explosives Ltd.

Personal title: Mr
Name: Peter Purvis
Post title: Cleaner
Office: Livingston Facility
Company: Acme Explosives Ltd.

Personal title: Professor
Name: John Harlington-Smythe
Post title: Professor of Mathematics
Office: Magdalene College
Company: University of Cambridge

Personal title: Doctor
Name: Mary McNee
Post title: Director of Research
Office: Rutherford House, Glasgow
Company: Atomic Energy Authority



Thank you both of you, Drag0nspeaker, and Jyrkkä Jätkä
That is a quite excellent explanation.

I really type in the personal fields, "Dr", if a person is either one of academic staff ranked with an Assistant Professor or above rank(Assistant Professor
Co-professor/Associate Professor or Professor) Or
medical doctors(dentists,pathologists or orthopedic surgeons, but not academic staff). However, I type in job titles the staff positions, such as Assistant Professor, Professor, or docoters' specialties such as dentists, pathologists, orthopedic surgeons or physiotherapiests.

However if a person is either one of academic staff ranked with lower rankings(Teaching Assistant, Research Associate, Lecturer or Assistant Instructor), Or a person working in medicine fields, but they are not considered as MDs, such as laboratoriests, healthcare assistants, I type 'Mr/Ms' in personal fields according to their genders. On the other hand, I type in the "job titles" fields one of these job titles below, according to their rankings.
Teaching Assistant
Research Associate
Lecturer
Assistant Instructor
laboratoriests
healthcare assistant

However, if a person in the contact form to be filled in is neither academic staff(He/she is an administrative employee), nor he/she work for a university or organisation(he/she is not associated with organisations, for example an independent engineer, lawyer, carpenter, plumber, farmer etc.), then I type in personal title 'Mr/Ms' according to their genders. However, in the job titles, I type their job positions according to their job titles, like executive, manager, director, chief, supervisor, clerk, Judge, lawyer, engineer, plumber, farmer. engineer. etc.





Whoever doesn't own what he promises to those who do not deserve must not promise it.
leonAzul
Posted: Friday, May 19, 2017 9:25:25 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 8/11/2011
Posts: 7,874
Neurons: 24,689
Location: Miami, Florida, United States
A cooperator wrote:


If the person works for a university, then I type in the office field, "the college name" he/she works at, and in the company field, I type in the university name.



That is not a bad way to think of it, although if you can add customized fields, the equivalent for a university for multiple offices would be multiple campuses.

Not every field needs to be filled in, and most universities include the campus in the name — the University of California at Los Angeles, or UCLA, for example — so I would just leave that blank.

Besides, unless you are selling text books, keeping track of who is at which campus probably isn't all that important. Whistle

"Make it go away, Mrs Whatsit," he whispered. "Make it go away. It's evil."
A cooperator
Posted: Friday, May 19, 2017 10:26:40 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 10/27/2011
Posts: 2,154
Neurons: 7,596
Location: Ḩāḑírah, Hadramawt, Yemen
Could you please reply to my final post about where and to whom I should type in the personal title "Dr"?

Whoever doesn't own what he promises to those who do not deserve must not promise it.
tunaafi
Posted: Saturday, May 20, 2017 2:11:27 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 6/3/2014
Posts: 3,994
Neurons: 51,498
Location: Karlín, Praha, Czech Republic
You use 'Dr' if you know that the person has a doctorate (usually a PhD) or, in the UK, if you know that the person is a qualified physician/surgeon. The basic qualification for a medical doctor in the UK is a Bachelor or Medicine and Surgery degree, not an MD. However, a person so qualified is addressed as 'Dr X'.
A cooperator
Posted: Saturday, May 20, 2017 10:11:26 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 10/27/2011
Posts: 2,154
Neurons: 7,596
Location: Ḩāḑírah, Hadramawt, Yemen
tunaafi wrote:
You use 'Dr' if you know that the person has a doctorate (usually a PhD) or, in the UK, if you know that the person is a qualified physician/surgeon.

Thanks a lot,
According to you stated above, then only those having PhD degrees or above can be titled with 'Dr' in the personal titles. Also, they can be titled with their positions in the job titles.
Personal title: Dr
Job title: Assistant Professor/Associate Professor/Professor
Otherwise else Mr or Ms/Miss/Mrs can be typed in personal titles according to person gender to be added in the contact form. However, they can be titled with their positions in job titles.
Personal title: Mr/Ms/Mrs/Miss
Job title: A teaching assistant/A assistant instructor/A teacher/A dentist/A general physician/A general surgeon/A pharmacist/ A plumber/ A
carpenter/ A manager/ A chief/ A clerk



Quote:
The basic qualification for a medical doctor in the UK is a Bachelor or Medicine and Surgery degree, not an MD. However, a person so qualified is addressed as 'Dr X'.


Yes. But as far as a Bachelor in Medicine is the same as Medicine and Surgery degree.

Akso, I know that 'MD' is abbreviation for Medical Doctor. So, medical doctor has Medicine.

Moreover, why do you capitalize the first letters of "bachelor/medicine/surgery"? I think they are not specialites names like Computer Science, which must be capitalized in their first letters.

Whoever doesn't own what he promises to those who do not deserve must not promise it.
A cooperator
Posted: Saturday, May 20, 2017 10:11:28 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 10/27/2011
Posts: 2,154
Neurons: 7,596
Location: Ḩāḑírah, Hadramawt, Yemen
tunaafi wrote:
You use 'Dr' if you know that the person has a doctorate (usually a PhD) or, in the UK, if you know that the person is a qualified physician/surgeon.

Thanks a lot,
According to you stated above, then only those having PhD degrees or above can be titled with 'Dr' in the personal titles. Also, they can be titled with their positions in the job titles.
Personal title: Dr
Job title: Assistant Professor/Associate Professor/Professor
Otherwise else Mr or Ms/Miss/Mrs can be typed in personal titles according to person gender to be added in the contact form. However, they can be titled with their positions in job titles.
Personal title: Mr/Ms/Mrs/Miss
Job title: A teaching assistant/A assistant instructor/A teacher/A dentist/A general physician/A general surgeon/A pharmacist/ A plumber/ A
carpenter/ A manager/ A chief/ A clerk



Quote:
The basic qualification for a medical doctor in the UK is a Bachelor or Medicine and Surgery degree, not an MD. However, a person so qualified is addressed as 'Dr X'.


Yes. But as far as a Bachelor in Medicine is the same as Medicine and Surgery degree.

Also, I know that 'MD' is the abbreviation of the "medical doctor". So, a medical doctor has a Bachelor in Medicine or Medicine and Surgery degree.

Moreover, why do you capitalize the first letters of "bachelor/medicine/surgery"? I think they are not specialites names like Computer Science, Civil Engineering etc., which must be capitalised in their first letters

Whoever doesn't own what he promises to those who do not deserve must not promise it.
Sarrriesfan
Posted: Saturday, May 20, 2017 11:19:19 AM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 3/30/2016
Posts: 475
Neurons: 3,052
Location: Luton, England, United Kingdom
In British English it is normal to captalise degree subjects if the full name of the title is used.

I lack the imagination for a witty signature.
Drag0nspeaker
Posted: Saturday, May 20, 2017 12:40:22 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 9/12/2011
Posts: 25,631
Neurons: 134,400
Location: Livingston, Scotland, United Kingdom
Maybe it is different in the USA - people seem to use more titles with fewer qualifications there.

'MD' is not the abbreviation for 'medical doctor'.

In Britain,
M.D. - The Doctor of Medicine (Latin: Medicinae Doctor, meaning "teacher of medicine", abbreviated M.D.) is a terminal (highest) medical degree for practitioners of medicine.
It is a much higher qualification than a degree in medicine.

Many practising medical people are not M.D.s -
Bachelor of Medicine, Bachelor of Surgery, or in Latin: Medicinae Baccalaureus, Baccalaureus Chirurgiae (abbreviated in many ways, e.g. MBBS, MBChB, MBBCh, MB BChir (Cantab), BM BCh (Oxon), BMBS), are the two first professional degrees in medicine and surgery awarded upon graduation from medical school by universities ...
As a courtesy, if they actually work in medical practise, they use 'Doctor' as their personal title.
If they are surgeons, dentists etc, they are addressed as 'Mister' unless they actually have a doctorate.
They are not M.D.s - they are 'GP' (General Practitioner) or specialist in some field.

In some European (not British) universities, the course which is equivalent to BMBS is called something like 'Diploma de Medecin' (slightly different in different languages) and is abbreviated MD - very confusing.


Wyrd bið ful aræd - bull!
A cooperator
Posted: Sunday, May 21, 2017 4:32:35 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 10/27/2011
Posts: 2,154
Neurons: 7,596
Location: Ḩāḑírah, Hadramawt, Yemen
Sarrriesfan wrote:
In British English it is normal to captalise degree subjects if the full name of the title is used.


Thanks a lot,
But tunaafi capitalized 'Bachelor' where full name of the title was not used in his/her saying below:
Quote:
The basic qualification for a medical doctor in the UK is a Bachelor or Medicine and Surgery degree, not an MD. However, a person so qualified is addressed as 'Dr X'.



Whoever doesn't own what he promises to those who do not deserve must not promise it.
A cooperator
Posted: Sunday, May 21, 2017 5:00:43 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 10/27/2011
Posts: 2,154
Neurons: 7,596
Location: Ḩāḑírah, Hadramawt, Yemen
Drag0nspeaker wrote:

As a courtesy, if they actually work in medical practise, they use 'Doctor' as their personal title.
If they are surgeons, dentists etc, they are addressed as 'Mister' unless they actually have a doctorate.
They are not M.D.s - they are 'GP' (General Practitioner) or specialist in some field.

In some European (not British) universities, the course which is equivalent to BMBS is called something like 'Diploma de Medecin' (slightly different in different languages) and is abbreviated MD - very confusing.


Thanks a lot,
Do you think we should address surgeons, dentists with 'Mister' even if their names are known? I think that only the persons whose names are not known should be addressed with 'Mister/Master' or "Sir"/Madam".
Quoted from Wikipeidia:
Quote:
Mrs originated as a contraction of the honorific Mistress, the feminine of Mister, or Master, which was originally applied to both married and unmarried women. The split into Mrs for married women and Miss for unmarried began during the 17th century;[1][2] the 20th century saw the coinage of a new unmarked option Ms.



Moreover, you don't think that my thought below is acceptable:

Thanks a lot,

Only those having PhD or MDs degrees or above can be addressed as 'Dr' in the personal titles if their names are known. However, they can be addressed as 'Sir/Madam' or 'Mister' if their names are not known. Also, they can be titled with their positions in the job titles.

Full name: XXXX
Personal title: Dr
Job title: Assistant Professor/Associate Professor/Professor


However, those having lower degrees can be addressed as "Mr or Ms/Miss/Mrs" if their names are known. However, they can be addressed as 'Sir/Madam' or 'Mister' if their names are not known. Also, they can be addressed in job titles according to their positions.

Full name: XXXXX
Personal title: Mr/Ms/Mrs/Miss
Job title: A teaching assistant/A assistant instructor/A teacher/A dentist/A general physician/A general surgeon/A pharmacist/ A plumber/ A carpenter/A jeweler/ A manager/ A chief/ A clerk .

If my thoughts about addressing the people contacts above had been bad, then how would I have addressed those persons who don't have P.hDs or MDs, and just work as either teaching assistants/assistant instructors/practitioners of medicine/carpenters/plumbers/jewelers etc?


I am going to organize my phone contacts. So, I want to address all those contacts in appropriate way as much as I can. There are diverse person contacts.

I don't agree with what I highlighted in your addressing below.
Personal title: Sir - Why do you used 'Sir' as long as person's name is known?
Name: Michael Moore
Post title: Managing Director
Office: Livingston Facility
Company: Acme Explosives Ltd.

Personal title: Mr
Name: Peter Purvis
Post title: Cleaner
Office: Livingston Facility
Company: Acme Explosives Ltd.

Why do you address him with 'Professor' instead of 'Dr'. I think 'Professor' should be typed in 'job title', and 'Dr' should be typed in personal title. Or otherwise, if that person is Assistant Professor or Associate Professor which are lower than Professor, then what could have written in the personal title?

Personal title: Professor
Name: John Harlington-Smythe
Post title: Professor of Mathematics
Office: Magdalene College
Company: University of Cambridge

Personal title: Doctor Why do you address her with 'Doctor' as long as she doesn't have a P.hD or MD?
Name: Mary McNee
Post title: Director of Research
Office: Rutherford House, Glasgow
Company: Atomic Energy Authority

Whoever doesn't own what he promises to those who do not deserve must not promise it.
tunaafi
Posted: Sunday, May 21, 2017 5:41:41 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 6/3/2014
Posts: 3,994
Neurons: 51,498
Location: Karlín, Praha, Czech Republic
A cooperator wrote:
Sarrriesfan wrote:
In British English it is normal to captalise degree subjects if the full name of the title is used.


But tunaafi capitalized 'Bachelor' where full name of the title was not used in his/her saying below:
Quote:
The basic qualification for a medical doctor in the UK is a Bachelor or Medicine and Surgery degree, not an MD.

I gave the name of the qualification, the degree. When we do that, the initial letters of the words the words Bachelor, Master and Doctor are capitalised.
tunaafi
Posted: Sunday, May 21, 2017 5:47:02 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 6/3/2014
Posts: 3,994
Neurons: 51,498
Location: Karlín, Praha, Czech Republic
A cooperator wrote:


Personal title: Doctor Why do you address her with 'Doctor' as long as she doesn't have a P.hD or MD?
Name: Mary McNee
Post title: Director of Research
Office: Rutherford House, Glasgow
Company: Atomic Energy Authority


We don't. If we are addressing her or referring to her as 'Dr (Mary) McNee', then it is because we know she has a doctorate.
A cooperator
Posted: Sunday, May 21, 2017 6:26:14 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 10/27/2011
Posts: 2,154
Neurons: 7,596
Location: Ḩāḑírah, Hadramawt, Yemen
tunaafi wrote:
A cooperator wrote:


Personal title: Doctor Why do you address her with 'Doctor' as long as she doesn't have a P.hD or MD?
Name: Mary McNee
Post title: Director of Research
Office: Rutherford House, Glasgow
Company: Atomic Energy Authority


We don't. If we are addressing her or referring to her as 'Dr (Mary) McNee', then it is because we know she has a doctorate.


Thanks a lot, tunaafi
Yes, but why do you think that Drag0nspeaker addressed one person also having a doctorate/Ph.D with Professor. However, he addressed another person also having a doctorate/Ph.D with 'Dr/Doctor'. I got a little bit confused about 'Professor' or Doctor(Dr). They had not been in the same rank or otherwise, I wouldn't have seen this statement 'use capital letters for the first letters of 'titles: Mr, Mrs, Miss, Ms, Dr, Professor'. I.e. It is enough to mention to either 'Dr' or 'Professor' if they had been in the same rank.


Personal title: Professor
Name: John Harlington-Smythe
Post title: Professor of Mathematics
Office: Magdalene College
Company: University of Cambridge

Whoever doesn't own what he promises to those who do not deserve must not promise it.
A cooperator
Posted: Sunday, May 21, 2017 6:52:15 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 10/27/2011
Posts: 2,154
Neurons: 7,596
Location: Ḩāḑírah, Hadramawt, Yemen
tunaafi wrote:
A cooperator wrote:
Sarrriesfan wrote:
In British English it is normal to captalise degree subjects if the full name of the title is used.


But tunaafi capitalized 'Bachelor' where full name of the title was not used in his/her saying below:
Quote:
The basic qualification for a medical doctor in the UK is a Bachelor or Medicine and Surgery degree, not an MD.

I gave the name of the qualification, the degree. When we do that, the initial letters of the words the words Bachelor, Master and Doctor are capitalised.



Thanks a lot,
You just said "The basic qualification for a medical doctor in the UK is a Bachelor or Medicine and Surgery degree, not an MD."
Which can be rephrased as, I think, a Bachelor degree or Medicine and Surgery degrees. So, capitalizing 'Bachelor, Medicine, and Surgery here, I think, is incorrect.

I think you meant "a Bachelor of Medicine or Surgery degree"

Bachelor of Medicine, Bachelor of Surgery, Master of Medicine, Master of Surgery, Doctorate of Medicine, Doctorate of Surgery.



Where is the name of the qualification you gave? Having said A Bachelor degree/A Master degree/A Doctor degree/a Medicine degree/ A Surgery degree' would be incorrect to capitalise the first letters of 'Bachelor, Master, Doctor, Medicine, Surgery', I think.

Whoever doesn't own what he promises to those who do not deserve must not promise it.
Drag0nspeaker
Posted: Sunday, May 21, 2017 7:56:44 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 9/12/2011
Posts: 25,631
Neurons: 134,400
Location: Livingston, Scotland, United Kingdom
Those examples I gave are just examples to show which 'field' of the address-book would take which data.

The people who use 'Doctor' as their personal title are:
1. people who have a doctorate (Doctor of Philosophy, Doctor of Medicine, Doctor of Divinity . . .) which is the next degree above 'Bachelor of Arts', 'Bachelor of Science' and so on.
2. People who are practising medicine and have a bachelor's degree - MBBS, MBChB, MBBCh, MB BChir (Cantab), BM BCh (Oxon), BMBS

Other people working in medicine (surgeons, dentists, etc) are usually called 'Mister', 'Ms', and occasionally ('Mrs' or 'Miss').

***********
Anyone in any profession - with a degree or without a degree - can be called 'Mister', 'Ms', and occasionally ('Mrs' or 'Miss').
'Mr', 'Ms' and 'Mrs' are NOT used without the name.

If you know the person's name, you can say "Hello, Mr Jones" or "Hello Ms Smith."
If you do not know the person's name, you can use 'Sir' or 'Madam,. - "Hello, Sir", "Hello Madam."

***********
The word "professor" is both a job-title and a personal title. It is quite rare in Britain
When a person with a doctorate works in a university, he is called 'Doctor' (personal title) and his post title is 'lecturer' or 'reader'.

When he has worked there many years, has written books and articles and has "contributed significantly to the knowledge of the subject", he may become the head of the department, in charge of all the lecturers teaching one specific subject, when the current Professor retires or dies.
He then will have the personal title of 'Professor' and the job title of 'Professor of Mathematics' or 'Professor of Mediaeval Art' (whatever the name of the department he is in charge of).

'Professor' can be used with, or without the person's name - "Hello, Professor Jones" or "Hello, Professor."

A Professor is FAR above the 'rank' of a Doctor.

American universities don't have the same discrimination - any old person who works in a university can call themselves 'professor'.

*************
When you state the whole name of a degree, it usually has capital letters - Bachelor of Arts, Bachelor of Medicine and Surgery.

When you are using the word normally, it is really a questionable point. Some people use capitals, some don't - He has a bachelor's degree in maths. The minimum qualification to practise medicine is a Bachelor's degree. - either one will do.

***************
Quote:
Personal title: Sir - Why do you used 'Sir' as long as person's name is known?
Name: Michael Moore
Post title: Managing Director
Office: Livingston Facility
Company: Acme Explosives Ltd.

It is just an example of someone who has a knighthood.
He would be called "Sir Michael" (when talking to him) or "Sir Michael Moore" (on letters etc).

"Sir" has two uses -
1. it is the personal title of someone who has been given the title of 'knight' by the Queen, and
2. it is the title of address for any man if you do not know, or do not want to use, his name.

**************
Quote:
Personal title: Doctor Why do you address her with 'Doctor' as long as she doesn't have a PhD or MD?
Name: Mary McNee
Post title: Director of Research
Office: Rutherford House, Glasgow
Company: Atomic Energy Authority

If her title is 'Doctor' it means she MUST have a Doctorate.

**************
Quote:
Do you think we should address surgeons, dentists with 'Mister' even if their names are known? I think that only the persons whose names are not known should be addressed with 'Mister/Master' or "Sir"/Madam".

"Mister", "Missus" and "Master" are never used without a name. If you do not know the name, you would have to use "Sir" or "Madam"

"Hello, Mister"
"Hello, Missus"

"Hello, Mr Jones"
"Hello, Mrs Smith"
"Hello, Sir"
"Hello Madam"


Wyrd bið ful aræd - bull!
tunaafi
Posted: Sunday, May 21, 2017 8:27:43 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 6/3/2014
Posts: 3,994
Neurons: 51,498
Location: Karlín, Praha, Czech Republic
If you have any follow-up questions, A cooperator, please ask them at the rate of one per post. and wait for each to be answered before submitting the next one. Long posts with several questions are difficult to deal with.
Харбин Хэйлунцзян 1
Posted: Sunday, May 21, 2017 8:39:45 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 10/13/2015
Posts: 539
Neurons: 117,818
Location: Dzerzhinskiy, Moskovskaya, Russia
Drag0nspeaker wrote:
"Mister", "Missus" and "Master" are never used without a name. If you do not know the name, you would have to use "Sir" or "Madam"

"Hello, Mister"
"Hello, Missus"

"Hello, Mr Jones"
"Hello, Mrs Smith"
"Hello, Sir"
"Hello Madam"

I remember in the film "The Mask" I heard "Hey, Mister!" used twice:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0110475/quotes

Quote:
Alley Punk #1: Hey, mister! You got the time?
The Mask: As a matter of fact I do, Cubby.
[pulls out a wind up alarm clock]
The Mask: LOOK AT THAT! It's exactly two seconds before I honk your nose and pull your underwear over your head!

There is a question that has been tormenting me for 8 years now. In Canada I addressed a girl of about 5 years who was blocking the passage - "Excuse me, young lady!". Should I have said "Excuse me, Miss!"?
Drag0nspeaker
Posted: Sunday, May 21, 2017 11:58:01 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 9/12/2011
Posts: 25,631
Neurons: 134,400
Location: Livingston, Scotland, United Kingdom

Calling someone 'Mister' or 'Missus' without a name is very colloquial, tending towards slang and is normally something you would only hear from a small child. When I said 'never', I may have been exaggerating slightly, but I was writing about 'normal English'.

"Young lady" is OK so long as it is appropriate. That sounds OK.
There are a lot of colloquial terms of address - Wack, Wacker, Acker, Mate, Young man, Man, etc for males and equivalent ones for women - but they are not what you'd call 'personal titles'.

Wyrd bið ful aræd - bull!
Харбин Хэйлунцзян 1
Posted: Sunday, May 21, 2017 12:27:23 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 10/13/2015
Posts: 539
Neurons: 117,818
Location: Dzerzhinskiy, Moskovskaya, Russia
Drag0nspeaker wrote:
Calling someone 'Mister' or 'Missus' without a name is very colloquial, tending towards slang and is normally something you would only hear from a small child. When I said 'never', I may have been exaggerating slightly, but I was writing about 'normal English'.

"Young lady" is OK so long as it is appropriate. That sounds OK.

Thank you very much!
Romany
Posted: Sunday, May 21, 2017 2:44:56 PM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 6/14/2009
Posts: 11,881
Neurons: 36,008
Location: Brighton, England, United Kingdom

There's one other thing I've been waiting for someone to mention:-

Although Drago correctly advised that we don't address anyone with solely 'Missus',"Mister" or "Master" (no name) I'd like to point out also that "master".

I don't know how that word crept in there? But this is not a word ANYONE is forced to use any more. It's been out of the English language since before WW2.

The equivalent of 'Mister' for an under-age male was once 'Master'. But *always* with a name: 'Master Billy' and "Mister James". The word 'Master' on its own, has no further use. Isn't that an amazing concept?

tunaafi
Posted: Sunday, May 21, 2017 3:56:40 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 6/3/2014
Posts: 3,994
Neurons: 51,498
Location: Karlín, Praha, Czech Republic
Romany wrote:
It's been out of the English language since before WW2.


It was still around in the 1950s, Until I was about eight or nine (1955), I used to receive (and send) birthday and Christmas cards addressed to Master F Name.
Sarrriesfan
Posted: Sunday, May 21, 2017 4:32:42 PM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 3/30/2016
Posts: 475
Neurons: 3,052
Location: Luton, England, United Kingdom
tunaafi wrote:
Romany wrote:
It's been out of the English language since before WW2.


It was still around in the 1950s, Until I was about eight or nine (1955), I used to receive (and send) birthday and Christmas cards addressed to Master F Name.


My Aunt still used it for my birthday and Christmas cards in the 1970s.

I lack the imagination for a witty signature.
srirr
Posted: Monday, May 22, 2017 1:24:54 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 12/29/2009
Posts: 4,869
Neurons: 78,015
Location: Delhi, NCT, India
What Romany mentioned about 'Master' is correct. We use it for young males, like Master Billy.

However, in some parts of Asia (and I hope in some other parts of the world too), 'Master' is used as a title of address and/or personal title. It is especially used for teachers or trainers or mentors. It is sometimes also used for owners of property or organization. This use of master is now getting obsolete. I think the words like postmaster and headmaster or station master are in the same line. These designations are still used as job titles.

As Dragon said, titles may differ from country to country.


We are responsible for what we are, and whatever we wish ourselves to be, we have the power to make ourselves. ~ Swami Vivekanand
Харбин Хэйлунцзян 1
Posted: Monday, May 22, 2017 1:58:03 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 10/13/2015
Posts: 539
Neurons: 117,818
Location: Dzerzhinskiy, Moskovskaya, Russia
srirr wrote:
What Romany mentioned about 'Master' is correct. We use it for young males, like Master Billy.

Here in Russia we still use Massa. And it's always 'Massa Bill' - never Billy.
srirr
Posted: Monday, May 22, 2017 2:46:20 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 12/29/2009
Posts: 4,869
Neurons: 78,015
Location: Delhi, NCT, India
Харбин Хэйлунцзян 1 wrote:
srirr wrote:
What Romany mentioned about 'Master' is correct. We use it for young males, like Master Billy.

Here in Russia we still use Massa. And it's always 'Massa Bill' - never Billy.


Do you mean you tend to shorten or truncate all the first names?



We are responsible for what we are, and whatever we wish ourselves to be, we have the power to make ourselves. ~ Swami Vivekanand
Харбин Хэйлунцзян 1
Posted: Monday, May 22, 2017 3:30:54 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 10/13/2015
Posts: 539
Neurons: 117,818
Location: Dzerzhinskiy, Moskovskaya, Russia
srirr wrote:
Do you mean you tend to shorten or truncate all the first names?

'Billy' is considered diminutive here, while Bill is just short. We used to call our rector 'Massa Bill'. It was never used to address him in the first person but even though it was behind his back we would never call him 'Billy'.
A cooperator
Posted: Monday, May 22, 2017 7:41:45 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 10/27/2011
Posts: 2,154
Neurons: 7,596
Location: Ḩāḑírah, Hadramawt, Yemen
tunaafi wrote:
If you have any follow-up questions, A cooperator, please ask them at the rate of one per post. and wait for each to be answered before submitting the next one. Long posts with several questions are difficult to deal with.


Thanks lot,
Yes, you're right.
But could you please confirm whether you meant to say 'a Bachelor of Medicine and Surgery degree, instead of being said'a Bachelor or Medicine and Surgery degree', tunaafi?

tunaafi wrote:
Quote:
The basic qualification for a medical doctor in the UK is a Bachelor or Medicine and Surgery degree, not an MD.


I couldn't understand 'a Bachelor or Medicine and Surgery degree' with the way it is phrased in at all. I can still think of 'a Bachelor or Medicine and Surgery degree' as "a Bachelor degree or Medicine and Surgery degrees' unless you did mean it with "a Bachelor of Medicine and Surgery degree"

That would make it clear why you capitalised the initial letters of 'Bachelor, Medicine, and Surgery'. It is because the whole name of a degree is stated.


Whoever doesn't own what he promises to those who do not deserve must not promise it.
tunaafi
Posted: Monday, May 22, 2017 3:00:09 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 6/3/2014
Posts: 3,994
Neurons: 51,498
Location: Karlín, Praha, Czech Republic
A cooperator wrote:

But could you please confirm whether you meant to say 'a Bachelor of Medicine and Surgery degree, instead of being said'a Bachelor or Medicine and Surgery degree', tunaafi?

Yes. Sorry, that was a typo.
Romany
Posted: Tuesday, May 23, 2017 8:17:31 AM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 6/14/2009
Posts: 11,881
Neurons: 36,008
Location: Brighton, England, United Kingdom

Tuna & Sarries -

Yeah, sorry, I didn't make that clear. What I was saying was "No person can be FORCED to call another 'Master' any more."

I wasn't referring to elderly Aunts & Grans still using it to address young relations (and purely from choice or habit) - but to having to give another person mastery over one's life.
Users browsing this topic
Guest


Forum Jump
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.

Main Forum RSS : RSS
Forum Terms and Guidelines. Copyright © 2008-2017 Farlex, Inc. All rights reserved.