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Priscilla86
Posted: Friday, May 12, 2017 5:25:56 AM

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Are 'engage' and 'engage with' the same or is one of them wrong?

"We are going to engage the tenant on this issue"

"We are going to engage with the tenant on this issue"

The greatest thing you'll ever learn is just to love and be loved in return.
TMe
Posted: Friday, May 12, 2017 11:15:11 AM

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[transitive] engage something (formal) to succeed in attracting and keeping somebody’s attention and interest
It is a movie that engages both the mind and the eye.
Their pleas failed to engage any sympathy.
[transitive] engage somebody (as something) | engage something | engage somebody to do something (formal) to employ somebody to do a particular job
He is currently engaged as a consultant.
We will have to engage the services of a translator.
[intransitive] engage (with something/somebody) to become involved with and try to understand something/somebody
She has the ability to engage with young minds.
[transitive, intransitive] engage (somebody) (formal) to begin fighting with somebody
to engage the enemy
See related entries: Conflict
[intransitive, transitive] when a part of a machine engages, or when you engage it, it fits together with another part of the machine and the machine begins to work
The cogwheels are not engaging.
engage with something One cogwheel engages with the next.
engage something Engage the clutch before selecting a gear.


I am a layman.
Drag0nspeaker
Posted: Friday, May 12, 2017 3:13:54 PM

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Do you mean you're going to fight them?
That would be 'engage with'.

Or employ them?
That would be 'engage'.

All VERY formal.

Do you mean 'talk to'?


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Priscilla86
Posted: Wednesday, May 17, 2017 10:57:51 PM

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Location: Lavender, Singapore
Drag0nspeaker wrote:
Do you mean you're going to fight them?
That would be 'engage with'.

Or employ them?
That would be 'engage'.

All VERY formal.

Do you mean 'talk to'?


Hi Drag0!

Yes, I mean 'talk to'. Can I use 'engage' to mean 'talk to'?


The greatest thing you'll ever learn is just to love and be loved in return.
Drag0nspeaker
Posted: Thursday, May 18, 2017 2:21:09 AM

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Location: Livingston, Scotland, United Kingdom
engage

You can engage the customer in conversation - you connect the customer to the conversation.

Just "engage the customer" means to employ him/her.


Wyrd bið ful aræd - bull!
Priscilla86
Posted: Thursday, May 18, 2017 3:01:16 AM

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Location: Lavender, Singapore
So it has to be followed by 'in' in order to mean 'talk to'?

People here like to use 'engage' to mean 'talk to' in a more formal setting, I guess to sound more high brow / professional because as you said, 'engage' is very formal. My boss says things like these a lot:

"Can you engage / engage with the tenants next week?"

"When are we engaging / engaging with the tenants?"

"We've engaged / engaged with the tenants and they said they would like to have an option to sublet the unit."


All to mean 'to talk to and find out more from someone'. And it is never consistent, sometimes it's just 'engage', sometimes it's 'engage with'. Anyway, does this mean none of the above is correct? There's no such thing as 'engage' to mean 'talk to someone to find out more from them'?


The greatest thing you'll ever learn is just to love and be loved in return.
thar
Posted: Thursday, May 18, 2017 4:19:36 AM

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To engage with someone is more than to talk to them.

It is to understand them, to interest them, to appeal to them, have them in active participation - linked.


(it can in aggression, as well - an army engages the enemy.
If someone starts verbally abusing you, some advice is "don't engage" - ie don't confront them or acknowledge them, just ignore them.)

but normally it is positive:
eg
political parties are trying to engage with young voters
they are trying to get young voters engaged with politics.
Young voters feel disengaged from politics.
Young people engage with rappers, not politicians.
Young people engage in sex and drugs.

To engage with someone is not a one off event
You can talk to them (a bit paternalistic) or talk with them (more democratic)

and the resultant relationship you create may be that you engage with them, or they engage with you - they trust you, believe in you.

But you can't set a time to engage with them - it is not how I would describe a meeting or a conversation.


eg
I have engaged a tenant in conversation (I talked to them - not at a planned meeting)

I have engaged a new employee (hired them to work for us)

The tenants are engaged with the new development (on board, enthusiastic, participating)

I can't see any situation where it means 'arrange to talk to', personally. Not from the way I have seen it used.

I think this is either an example of corporate language (which I know nothing about) or local/regional usage of the language (which I also know nothing about, obviously).

Priscilla86
Posted: Thursday, May 18, 2017 4:52:12 AM

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Hello, thar!

It's more like your first example. We're trying to engage with the tenants to know more about their business model / operation in order to formulate the Standard Operating Procedure (SOP). So can I say that? 'Engage with' here does not mean I want to fight them?

And just to be clear, when someone is verbally abusing you, the advice "don't engage' is short for "don't engage with him", right? Otherwise, engage / engage with have the same meaning, then?


The greatest thing you'll ever learn is just to love and be loved in return.
Drag0nspeaker
Posted: Friday, May 19, 2017 8:43:35 AM

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Location: Livingston, Scotland, United Kingdom
Priscilla wrote:
We're trying to engage with the tenants to know more about their business model / operation in order to formulate the Standard Operating Procedure (SOP).

This works fine - but it does not work in your original sentence, which is talking about a single meeting or conversation.

This sentence ("We are trying to engage with . . .") would mean weeks/months of conversations to get the customer fully connected up with your program and you fully conversant with their business.
After that you would be engaged.
You would have engaged with the customer (you would have connected yourself to them) and
you will have engaged the customer (you would have pulled in their attention so that they are totally involved with your operation).

These political/spin-doctor/corporate/sales meanings did not occur to me (they are not really 'in my universe').

"Engage (with)" means 'fully connect up' - "become involved (with)" is a good similar phrase.

Look at the more normal meanings:
When a couple become engaged, they have probably been seeing each other for months (or more). They are now "one team" - going to be married soon.

When two cog wheels become engaged, they are totally linked so that any movement in one causes a change in the other.

The example of politicians 'engaging with' young voters is not just 'talking to' - it's the idea of making the young voters totally involved in the party.
It's making the young voters feel that the politicians are part of their 'group'.

As thar says, to engage with is not a one-off event, it's entering a new state of being.


Wyrd bið ful aræd - bull!
Priscilla86
Posted: Monday, May 22, 2017 3:50:40 AM

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Location: Lavender, Singapore
Hi, Drag0!

Hmmm...Think

Actually, my original sentence was intended to mean exactly that - not a one-off event, rather a series of more thorough, deep conversations with a group of people to understand their needs and concerns so that we can do something about them.

I think you meant the sentences in my second post. They sound off because they are more for one-time events.

I'm clear about that now, but am still confused whether I need to add 'with' because they seem to have the same meaning to me.

"We have set aside three months to engage the tenants on this issue."

"We have set aside three months to engage with the tenants on this issue."


The greatest thing you'll ever learn is just to love and be loved in return.
Drag0nspeaker
Posted: Tuesday, May 23, 2017 8:45:41 PM

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Location: Livingston, Scotland, United Kingdom
This (the one in the three sentences which look like you should be saying 'talk to') would appear to be a new meaning - or a 'stretch' of an old meaning.

None of the definitions in the three TFD dictionaries - and none of the synonyms in the two TFD thesauruses (thesauri?) would fit.

They don't even really have any definition for the "fully connect up and become familiar with" meaning.

The Oxford has one which works, but it is as the phrasal verb "engage with". So I guess that answers your question - it is a phrasal verb 'engage with'

engage with
Establish a meaningful contact or connection with.
‘the teams needed to engage with local communities’
‘Other Scottish companies should go down this route as engaging with local companies is the best way to operate in eastern Europe.’
‘The funds believe that, by engaging with companies using these suppliers, they may be able to influence their behaviour.’
‘He didn't seem to be actually engaging with anyone and his almost total lack of French must have been a disadvantage, but he was hanging out with teenagers.’
‘A true artist discovering and engaging with his material world.’
‘They come to be a part of a network of people that they connect with, engage with.’
‘These men go into the poverty - stricken barrios, engaging with the street gangs who are involved daily in ritual violence.’


Wyrd bið ful aræd - bull!
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