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tRump's Muslim ban fails again Options
Oscar D. Grouch
Posted: Thursday, March 16, 2017 5:55:16 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 6/26/2014
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tRump's Muslim ban fails again. Blocked by Hawaii federal judge.

http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow/watch/trump-fails-again-with-muslim-ban-in-court-899100227586
taurine
Posted: Thursday, March 16, 2017 10:37:14 AM

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Joined: 4/20/2016
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Neurons: 24,820
A temporal diMention.
redgriffin
Posted: Thursday, March 16, 2017 11:59:43 AM

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Joined: 9/3/2010
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Location: Portland, Oregon, United States
Any plan that Il Douche has to ban just one religion from the US will always fail in a country with freedom of religion. That Plus the amount of time it takes for a refugee to gain entry into the US preclude that a terrorist will get into the country from outside the country it is the radicalized American that posses the most danger and this country doesn't care about those people.
TheParser
Posted: Friday, March 17, 2017 8:40:32 AM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 9/21/2012
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To: Fair-Minded Readers


I know that, since you are fair-minded, you are looking for a calm explanation.


*****


1. About a month ago, President Trump issued an order regarding the entry of immigrants and people with visas.

a. As you know, most people who are here illegally came with visas and refused to leave after their visas expired.

2. Three judges ruled that the President did not have the authority to issue such an order.

3. So the President issued a second order, which changed some of the parts of the first order.

4. A few days ago, two more judges ruled that the President's second order was not constitutionally sound, either.

5. People who support President Trump's two orders believe that the President does have the authority to decide on who can enter the country.

a. Since almost all terrorists have come from the Middle East, the President's supporters feel that it is only common sense to carefully vet all immigrants and visa-holders from those countries.

6. People who oppose President Trump's orders believe that he is discriminating against Muslim people.

a. They feel that the American Constitution's "freedom of religion" clause is being disrespected by the President's orders.

*****

7. The President says that he may (will?) take the matter to the Supreme Court.

a. The Supreme Court has 9 justices (judges).

b. It currently has only 8 justices: four are so-called "conservatives"; four are so-called "liberals."

c. IF the court decision results in a tie (4 - 4), then I think (repeat: think) that the President's order will be approved for implementation.

d. The Court could also vote to:

* Do nothing (so the lower court judges' decisions will continue to stop the President's orders).
* Agree with the President.
* Disagree with the President.


I hope that this calm and fair-minded explanation will help you make up your own minds.




Have a nice day!













Lotje1000
Posted: Friday, March 17, 2017 8:57:54 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 11/3/2014
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Location: Gent, Flanders, Belgium
TheParser wrote:
5. People who support President Trump's two orders believe that the President does have the authority to decide on who can enter the country.


What's important is not what those people believe, but what the constitution says about checks and balances.

TheParser wrote:
a. Since almost all terrorists have come from the Middle East, the President's supporters feel that it is only common sense to carefully vet all immigrants and visa-holders from those countries.


While you may claim to explain things calmly and fair-mindedly, you continue to blatantly ignore the following:

Quote:
But after sifting through databases, media reports, court documents, and other sources, Alex Nowrasteh, an immigration expert at the libertarian Cato Institute, has arrived at a striking finding: Nationals of the seven countries singled out by Trump have killed zero people in terrorist attacks on U.S. soil between 1975 and 2015.
(Emphasis mine)

So as that argument holds no water, it is not too surprising people assume the President is targeting muslims. And if that is not the case, then, pray tell, why is he targeting those countries and not those that actually sent terrorists out to America? Could it be because he has to mind his business interests?
Hope123
Posted: Saturday, March 18, 2017 12:02:15 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 3/23/2015
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Location: Burlington, Ontario, Canada
9/11 terrorist origin countries are oily friends and can't be sanctioned. The country that was dropped is a country that the US needs its help.

All terrorists since 9/11 have been home grown in the US.

All refugees and immigrants go through multiple layers of rigorous screening taking up to two years to complete. Even though this has been explained many times, it still sounds good for T and supporters to mention this as a factor. It is a red herring.

:::::

He is definitely targeting Muslim Canadian citizens, even those born in Canada. They are being denied entry even though they have Canadian passports and have been in the States multiple times.

A Nexus holder whose card was just renewed which means he had had it for five years already, just had his card cancelled. He is Muslim. Nexus cardholders are already screened carefully and are not terrorists or refugees.

White companions are not even questioned while their Muslim friends are held many hours before being denied entry.

Those questioned are asked about their religion and whether or not they support Trump.

The Girl Guides, schools, and many other Canadian groups are canceling their usual plans for trips to the States. A group of over a hundred Girl Guides was afraid that two or three of their group would have trouble, so 100% of them voted to go elsewhere or call off the trip. Good for them!

Fortunately, the millennials are very enraged about this discrimination!

It is not just Canadians who are changing destination travel plans.

Tourism Industry is calling it the "Trump Slump". Losing, not creating jobs!

His own campaign rhetoric has come back to haunt him. He IS targeting Muslims. Freedom of religion is in the American constitution, I believe.

The Courts, not us, will decide about the constitutionality of the judiciary blocking an order by the President.

I hope my factual post is fair minded and calm enough and meets with your approval, Parser.

Sometimes the longest way around is the shortest way home. Anon
progpen
Posted: Saturday, March 18, 2017 2:52:02 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 10/2/2015
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Location: Princeton, Minnesota, United States
Now that Muslim Ban 2.0 has failed as well, there has been quite a bit of discussion about the White House's options to go forward. There has been strong pushback from Republicans and Democrats so this time around the chest thumping and posturing were not met with nearly as much acceptance. A successful legal route forward is fraught with obstacles not because the new ban was worded badly or could be worded better, but because of the current administration's own words up to this point.

One item that was brought up recently in a legal discussion about the proposed Muslim ban is the fact that the current administration's actions are very effectively reducing the authority and strength given to the Executive branch. The current administration is creating legal precedent for stricter limits to executive power.

Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter. ― Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.
tunaafi
Posted: Saturday, March 18, 2017 3:55:25 PM

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Joined: 6/3/2014
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Location: Karlín, Praha, Czech Republic
progpen wrote:
The current administration is creating legal precedent for stricter limits to executive power.


Every cloud has a silver lining.


Far away is close at hand in images of elsewhere – The Master of Paddington.
tunaafi
Posted: Saturday, March 18, 2017 4:01:16 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 6/3/2014
Posts: 3,803
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Location: Karlín, Praha, Czech Republic
TheParser wrote:
I hope that this calm and fair-minded explanation will help you make up your own minds.



Most of us like to believe that we are calm and fair-minded. Most calm and fair-minded people do not apply these words (or words such as courteous and humble) to themselves or their words.


Far away is close at hand in images of elsewhere – The Master of Paddington.
progpen
Posted: Saturday, March 18, 2017 4:07:39 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 10/2/2015
Posts: 1,159
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Location: Princeton, Minnesota, United States
tunaafi wrote:
TheParser wrote:
I hope that this calm and fair-minded explanation will help you make up your own minds.



Most of us like to believe that we are calm and fair-minded. Most calm and fair-minded people do not apply these words (or words such as courteous and humble) to themselves or their words.


But, but, I AM courteous, calm, humble, fair-minded AND good looking. Don't forget good looking.

Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter. ― Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.
tunaafi
Posted: Saturday, March 18, 2017 5:10:24 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 6/3/2014
Posts: 3,803
Neurons: 50,561
Location: Karlín, Praha, Czech Republic
progpen wrote:
I AM courteous, calm, humble, fair-minded AND good looking. Don't forget good looking.

Sorry, gorgeous.

Far away is close at hand in images of elsewhere – The Master of Paddington.
Romany
Posted: Saturday, March 18, 2017 7:05:24 PM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 6/14/2009
Posts: 11,600
Neurons: 34,972
Location: Brighton, England, United Kingdom

People,

Remember: the Parsar has revised his Black List and put us all on it, along with a few others whose cryptic codenames I've not worked out.

Co-incidentally all those on the Black List are those who don't agree with him; which disqualifies them from being read or responded to.

He seems to have taken his friends advice and calmed down - but I think that by never reading ANY alternative views - whether from media or now even here, he will simply drift further and further away from the things we are talking about on here anyway.

But hey, if that's the way a person wants to roll.......?
Lotje1000
Posted: Sunday, March 19, 2017 12:59:56 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 11/3/2014
Posts: 706
Neurons: 315,925
Location: Gent, Flanders, Belgium
Romany wrote:

People,

Remember: the Parsar has revised his Black List and put us all on it, along with a few others whose cryptic codenames I've not worked out.

Co-incidentally all those on the Black List are those who don't agree with him; which disqualifies them from being read or responded to.

He seems to have taken his friends advice and calmed down - but I think that by never reading ANY alternative views - whether from media or now even here, he will simply drift further and further away from the things we are talking about on here anyway.

But hey, if that's the way a person wants to roll.......?


Yet we are the ones in the echo chamber, apparently...
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