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in order for him to win Options
navi
Posted: Thursday, March 16, 2017 5:01:45 AM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 5/16/2014
Posts: 310
Neurons: 2,835
1) What did Pete do for John to win the match?
2) What did Pete do in order for John to win the match?

Do these mean that Pete wanted John to win the match?
Do they imply that Pete actually did win?

Is this one correct:
3) What mistake did Pete make for John to win the match?

Does it imply that Pete deliberately made a mistake for John to win?


Gratefully,
Navi.
thar
Posted: Thursday, March 16, 2017 6:54:28 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 7/8/2010
Posts: 14,894
Neurons: 58,937

Hmmm.

I don't think you would use 'for' in that way. It doesn't feel natural.

For cause and effect, you would express it in other ways.

pjharvey
Posted: Thursday, March 16, 2017 7:14:22 AM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 4/13/2012
Posts: 725
Neurons: 39,475
I don't quite agree, thar.
I see no fault with "in order for John to win the match" - it was his aim that John should win.
And it doesn't imply that John actually won.
thar
Posted: Thursday, March 16, 2017 9:20:02 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 7/8/2010
Posts: 14,894
Neurons: 58,937
but does it match with the first part?

He did something in order for Peter to win.


That is what I wouldn't ever say. Think

In other structures it works fine.
(some of these may be dodgy - you know what it's like if you say a phrase too many times - they all start to sound wrong!)
He did something in order that Peter would win.
What did he have to do in order for Peter to win?

But what he actually did? In order for .....?
What did he do to try to help Peter win?
What did he do to ensure Peter won?
Sorin F. Ghinescu
Posted: Thursday, March 16, 2017 9:38:23 AM

Rank: Newbie

Joined: 3/9/2016
Posts: 10
Neurons: 19,448
Location: Bucharest, Bucuresti, Romania
So the question is, do I have to use 'in order'? It seems like this is the question, can one skip the 'in order' and say directly , for John to win? Is that often used in colloquial English? I'm asking because I've heard it used that way. What is the flavor?
hedy mmm
Posted: Thursday, March 16, 2017 12:57:44 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 7/29/2014
Posts: 801
Neurons: 344,408
Location: Borough of Bronx, New York, United States
navi wrote:
2) What did Pete do in order for John to win the match?


thar, with the limited information in the question, is correct in saying, "He did something in order for Pete to win."

The definition of 'In order' is the arrangement of people/things to each other in a sequence of pattern or method; the route to get something done.

To answer...there are several variables:
1. Pete 'did' something in order for John to win, (or did he?).
2. John obviously did win the match.

However, the sentence does not imply that is was Pete playing the match with John. Whether it was Pete or some other opponent, the 'in order' could be several reasons:
1. Pete had the opponent cheat so John could win. Shame on you
2. Pete had an opponent who was not as savvy as John to win. d'oh!

After all is said and done, the question is just a question NOT a statement of fact.....maybe the answer is 'Pete didn't do anything in order for John to win the match...John achieved it all by himself'

Go John!
Applause


LAST BUT NOT LEAST....Welcome Sorin F. Ghinescu to TFD, I like your question form with the use of 'flavor'Applause ....I write tag lines for businesses...over 25 yrs ago, for a Disc Jockey, I wrote "Music for All Flavors"...it made him lots of money!
hedy Dancing



"God graced us with today....don't waste it." hedy
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