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"Canada's Mounties allow women officers to wear hijab." Options
Chazlee
Posted: Friday, August 26, 2016 10:31:44 PM
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With all the problems happening on some of the beaches in France with women not being allowed to wear a "burkini," I find what is happening in Canada, and some other countries, to be very interesting.

According to a recent article, "Hoping to boost recruiting of Muslim women, the Royal Canadian Mounted Police is allowing its officers to wear hijabs as part of their uniforms, the government said Tuesday."

"The commissioner of the Royal Canadian Mounted Police recently approved this addition to the uniform," Public Safety Minister Ralph Goodale's spokesman Scott Bardsley told AFP."

"This is intended to better reflect the diversity in our communities and encourage more Muslim women to consider the Royal Canadian Mounted Police as a career option," he said."

"With the latest uniform change, the RCMP becomes the third police force in Canada to add the hijab option after Toronto and Edmonton. Police in Britain, Sweden and Norway, as well as some US states, have adopted similar policies, Bardsley said."


I applaud this decision by the Canadian government. Applause

Peace.


https://us.yahoo.com/news/canadas-mounties-allow-women-officers-wear-hijab-161051711.html
whatson
Posted: Saturday, August 27, 2016 1:19:08 AM
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Some Mounties may be "scratched and clawed" as a result.

http://www.edmontonsun.com/2016/08/23/edmonton-man-ordered-to-take-anger-management-following-nasty-attack-on-his-wifes-boss

If I were a lame 'un, I wouldn't advertise it.
coag
Posted: Saturday, August 27, 2016 1:43:06 AM

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I strongly oppose decisions like this one, by the Canadian government. Canadian government is making mistakes which Canadians will pay dearly later.

The police uniform should be unique-- all officers should wear the same uniform. A police where one officer wears a hat, another officers wears a hijab, yet another officer wears a turban, etc., is not the police, it's a circus.

This is my opinion. I don't have intention to enter a discussion on this topic. You can present your opinion but do not try to impose it on me.
Quies
Posted: Saturday, August 27, 2016 3:04:18 AM

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My opinion is that -- regardless of gender -- police officers should wear the uniform of the day without accoutrements! Shame on you
desca
Posted: Saturday, August 27, 2016 6:24:01 AM
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I think this is giving the muslim women an opportunity to have a role in law enforcement field. For muslim male officers, they can wear uniforms as all other officers. Hijab is not an accoutrement, it's day to day clothing.

What is the difference and similarity between women uniforms and daily women clothing?

Note : All muslim women that wear hijab can also wear hat.
Chazlee
Posted: Saturday, August 27, 2016 6:48:55 AM
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As long as the person wearing the hijab, or a turban, is clearly a police officer, then I don't see a problem at all. Here are some examples of police officers in uniform, and if anyone wants to say why what they are wearing is problem, or if anyone thinks they can't tell the people are police officers, please let me know.

BTW coag,

If you are referring to me when you wrote "You can present your opinion but do not try to impose it on me."
That is not what I have done and it is not what I am currently doing. I posted a message and you disagreed with me, which is your right. However, it is my right to show you why I know you are wrong. That is what I am doing and that is not "imposing" my opinion on you. It is unfortunate if you can't see that.

Peace.









Chazlee
Posted: Saturday, August 27, 2016 8:21:51 AM
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desca wrote:
I think this is giving the muslim women an opportunity to have a role in law enforcement field. For muslim male officers, they can wear uniforms as all other officers. Hijab is not an accoutrement, it's day to day clothing.

What is the difference and similarity between women uniforms and daily women clothing?

Note : All muslim women that wear hijab can also wear hat.



I 100% agree with you. It is indeed giving these women a chance to be law enforcement officers, and it allows the general public, many of whom may also be Muslim, to see that they are accepted as being a part of the communities in which they live.

Peace.
Drag0nspeaker
Posted: Sunday, August 28, 2016 5:04:45 AM

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It should also be noted that the RCMP (Canada's Feds) oftem wear hijab - male and female.





Wyrd bið ful aræd - bull!
Maryam Dad
Posted: Sunday, August 28, 2016 10:13:37 AM

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Muslim police women in Indonesia are also allowed to wear hijab.

http://www.thejakartapost.com/news/2015/03/27/national-police-allow-hijab-female-officers.html





"And the sun and the moon are brought together --" (Al Qiyamah: 9)
Hope123
Posted: Sunday, December 11, 2016 8:26:53 PM

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We had this discussion a couple of weeks ago at TT with about 25 Canadians. 100% agreed with Coag - dress of any kind is fine everyday, but a uniform is a uniform. Uni means one. But the Supreme Court in their wisdom says they have rights as Canadians too - we say so don't join the force if you disagree with the uni-form, (even if it is a religious issue, which the hijab is not as far as I know).

And faces should be uncovered, maybe in private, to vote, for legal purposes, and to get on a plane or anywhere where security is an issue.

World food shortage that threatens five hundred million children could be alleviated at the cost of one day's warfare.
jacobusmaximus
Posted: Monday, December 12, 2016 5:32:18 AM

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In my younger days brides wore a veil to obscure their faces. It was mainly ceremonial but it did largely hide their faces until they were man and wife and then the groom lifted the veil back and kissed his bride. It was all a bit of show, like the white wedding dress - it seldom meant anything in reality. Nobody (UK natives) bothers with veils nowadays, and the white dress is now claimed or acknowledged to be a fashion started by Queen Victoria and has nothing to do with virginity, saving the great majority of white brides from hypocrisy.

Fashions change with social evolution and the hijab and 'burkini' will one day be consigned to history. That change is already happening. Let us just be patient

I remember, therefore I am.
MelissaMe
Posted: Monday, December 12, 2016 12:52:16 PM

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My first thought was a practical one, of the woolen face veils Laura wore in the deep snows of the north to keep the freezing cold air out of her lungs.



But that's not what is being spoken of.

This is my only now.
progpen
Posted: Thursday, December 29, 2016 6:29:15 AM

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coag wrote:
I strongly oppose decisions like this one, by the Canadian government. Canadian government is making mistakes which Canadians will pay dearly later.

The police uniform should be unique-- all officers should wear the same uniform. A police where one officer wears a hat, another officers wears a hijab, yet another officer wears a turban, etc., is not the police, it's a circus.

This is my opinion. I don't have intention to enter a discussion on this topic. You can present your opinion but do not try to impose it on me.


Hi Coag. I understand your concern. Women's uniforms are already different than men's. Buttons on the wrong side and such. My question is this: Can you still identify these women as being police officers?

Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter. ― Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.
coag
Posted: Saturday, December 31, 2016 1:52:12 AM

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Hi progpen,

I am a bit confused with what you wrote. There might be some misunderstanding.

The answer to your question "Can you still identify these women as being police officers?" is trivial. I wonder why you would ask such a question. I am not a male chauvinist. On the contrary, in many police duties I prefer to see women than men (my reasons for that are anthropological). Even if I were a male chauvinist, I would not admit it in TFD forums. (I would have to respond to the attacks of many forum members and I don't want that.) That's why I said that the answer to your question is trivial.

I reread my earlier post and I saw that what I had written might be confusing. I did not mean that women should wear men's uniform. A uniform must be, among other things, safe, practical and comfortable. Modifications which make the uniform comfortable for women (for example, tailoring the shirt for woman's chest) are natural. But notice, these modifications are beneficial to all women, regardless to their religion or ethnicity. The comments in my earlier post are related to the uniform modifications that accommodate the religion or ethnicity of police officers.

What I meant (in my earlier message) is that all female police officers should wear the same uniform (and all male officers should wear the same uniform). I do not disqualify the hijab, or any other head covering, as a part of a uniform. I could argue the practicality of some head coverings, though. If all female officers wear a hijab, that's fine, that's part of their uniform. What I don't like, is female (or male) officers wearing different head coverings (hence, strictly speaking, different uniforms), in the same police force.

Adjustments for religious and ethnic groups, in matters such as country's police, is a slippery slope. What's the next head covering that Canadian
police will introduce? Vikings' helmet with horns, Hawaiian flower string? Policies of Canadian government, in this regard, are myopic and
irresponsible and they will have serious consequences.

Here is a random Internet picture of police officers in Toronto. This is what I like to see on Toronto streets, in terms of police uniform. Police officers clothed in a unique way.
progpen
Posted: Saturday, December 31, 2016 4:56:21 AM

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coag wrote:
What's the next head covering that Canadian police will introduce? Vikings' helmet with horns, Hawaiian flower string?


Your explanation up to this point makes sense and is a logical concern, then you made a silly comparison. Comparing a hijab or a kippah or any similar head piece to a viking helmet is not a legitimate comparison and only shows that you have to reach beyond logic in order to make this argument.

Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter. ― Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.
progpen
Posted: Saturday, December 31, 2016 5:00:52 AM

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Here are some other places that hijabs can be worn as part of a law enforcement uniform.


Also here in Minnesota:
http://mvslim.com/minnesotas-first-hijab-wearing-police-woman-how-cool-is-she/


Edit: And in Scotland:
http://www.scotland.police.uk/whats-happening/news/2016/august/hijab-ratified-as-option-for-police-scotland-uniform

Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter. ― Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.
Ashwin Joshi
Posted: Friday, January 06, 2017 10:04:45 AM

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The reasoning of Drago is perfect: so is the pic that proves it.

Me Gathering Pebbles at The Seashore.-Aj
Hope123
Posted: Friday, January 06, 2017 1:06:20 PM

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Male Sikh's have been able to wear a turban in the mounties since 1990. We protested that then to no avail. When in Rome, do as the Romans do! I don't know when they were allowed in the armed forces.

The hijab is not even a religious symbol. It is cultural.

A uniform is a uniform to be worn without alteration. Jewish people don't wear their skullcaps or Mennonite people wouldn't wear their traditional garb in enforcement - male hats or female bonnets. I don't like hats at all - why should I have to wear anything on my head if they can have their special headgear? It seems to me to be reverse discrimination.

And It sets a precedent.

When school uniforms are worn, individualism is out - and for a reason. Everyone should be the same in any environment with uniforms. And I don't think I'd want to stand out in a combat situation. ;)

The police force work in a unique environment where religion should not be an issue. Even though it is against their religion to put anything on the head except a turban, Sikh are not allowed to go without hard hats on motorcycles, or in construction, yet they are exempted from wearing the Mountie garb where dangerous work of a different kind is done.The kirpan, their traditional ceremonial sword, may be worn at school, yet other kids may not have a knife. They could easily do a symbolic symbol if it is important to them, as Christians do who wear a cross around their necks. If Christians decided they wanted to wear a weapon instead, that would not be tolerated.

Alcohol is against the Sikh religion too, but that doesn't stop them. lol. Double standard.

The arguments made about the Sikh garb are even more valid against the hijab as it is not a religious symbol, but a way of dressing.

I am not against any religious dress in particular, but all of it - and only in specific situations. I'm also for the separation of church and state, and a police force is definitely 'state'.


World food shortage that threatens five hundred million children could be alleviated at the cost of one day's warfare.
Litvinenko
Posted: Sunday, January 08, 2017 7:55:49 AM

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Because Romans never change.



A perfect design, with no designer.
will
Posted: Monday, January 09, 2017 11:39:32 AM
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Do the Mounties allow Ninjas? Think


.
Tovarish
Posted: Tuesday, February 07, 2017 8:02:21 PM

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Hope there was a similar situation down here with Sikh police officers and their turbans.

The issues were OH&S not religious, helmets could not fit over the turbans, an agreement was reached by officers signing a disclaimer for any head

injuries they may have received at work by not wearing protective head coverings.

When I first read the title of this topic, I thought, surely they are not going to make the women ride side saddle!!!!!
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