While I have a fairly good understanding of the development of religion in the western world, I unfortunately am largely ignorant of what has gone on in the east. I know the two are vastly different, I remember a term I heard that seemed to point up some difference in that what is referred to in the west as "religion", is often called in the east "mysticism." I would appreciate it if anyone with more knowledge could make a synopsis, or point me to a succinct account of the development of the phenomenon, and be willing to answer resultant questions.

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Ah yes Epi that old chestnut...My understanding is that all human thinking/experience has had an impact on other human thinking/experience..e.g. to illusrate my point. Buddha (Prince Gautama) grew up in a fundamentalist Jainist area. Jainism practiced an extreme form of vegetarianism and carefully swept insects aside to make a path everywhere they walked so as not to harm any living thing... (not sure how they viewed plants!! this was before Lyall Watson et al..)

There is no question that Jainism profoundly influenced Gautama Buddhas philosophy and his expression of it. Other strains of mystical/spiritual ideology was prevalent throughout the region of what we call India now and it is reputed that the Jewish mystic/teacher/traveller we refer to as Jesus of Nazareth journeyed to the East some 500 years later and stayed in the area nearby at a place we now call Kashmir for around a decade meditating and learning his craft before returning to his home to share his findings.

When Buddha also Journeyed to his East. Eventually his teachings spreading to Tibet China, Korea and Japan supplanting or influencing some of the mainstream ideologies/philosphies/religions...such as Taoism in China and Shintoism in Japan but these ideas reasserted themselves or " incorporated" the new religion in much the same way as Latin American countries adopted their new religion of Christianity(15th Century Catholicism) and adapted it to their old ways and vice a versa.

This was preceded in Europe 1200 years earlier. The Romans had adopted a form of Christianity ( adapting it to become Catholicism) from the middle East then spread the religion across Europe by force...the adoptive countries adapting the new ideology in to the belief system and culture they already had. The Celts, the Angles, The Scots etc celebrated Easter and the resurrection as it corresponded with the Spring ritual of fecundity with fertilty symbols of Bunnies and Eggs along with bleeding Jesuses impaled on crosses next to laughing girls dancing around phallic May Poles....Then there is Jesus birhday coinciding with that momentous event the Winter solstice....A time of coming together and sharing to get thru the harsh Winter..

It is all just grist for the mill Epi....The Egyptians influenced the Persians and Jews The Persians and Etruscans and Jews influenced the Egyptians then Muhammed was imfluenced by that which came before and has influenced that which came after...and then there is the South Seas..Cargo cults etc....The human mind/heart is a wild and wonderful landscape populated by wonders, terrors and banalities alike....our environment influences us amd we influence it...it is a great symbiotic soup...May it all unfold as it so inevitably will...

Asalaam alaikam, Shalom Alaikam, Namaste, God Bless, May the force be with you...etc etc :)

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A Genie told me I could have one wish...Either a large Penis or a Long memory...I forget which one I chose. :)

Epiphileon wrote:



My knowledge is much too limited to get into any deep discussion on comparitive religion, but on this point of nomenclature, I think I can give an answer.

The words connected with these subjects tend to blend or 'grey' so definitive definitions are rare!

"Mysticism" has an implication of Gnosticism or Metagnosticism:
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TFD

"Men of the Book", as Mohammed names those who follow the Old Testament and its additions (New Testament, Koran, later Rabbinic writings) tend to have the belief that it is impossible to have 'immediate consciousness' or 'direct experience' of the Divine. So all you can do is believe.

Many Eastern religions stress 'direct experience' or 'consciousness' (especially the Buddhist-related ones, which hardly mention God as an entity) rather than considering belief in someone else's writings.

Thus - to Western minds, Eastern religions can be considered to tend away from belief toward mysticism, whereas the Western religions tend away from it toward 'faith'.

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Though lovers be lost, love shall not, and Death shall have no dominion. - Dylan Thomas

Ray,
look at the dates of Intel's and Alias's posts ;-)

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I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve.

I am no expert, so can only relate my experience. Years ago, I researched Confucianism, Buddhism, Taoism, Hinduism and others more out of curiosity, or so it seemed at the time, than anything else. I was looking for the answer that suited me, and me alone.

What struck me was that, like Christianity, most of these began simple, then were made elaborate, branching into diverse streams of thought in the following years.

Throughout, I sought a simple, clear, concise, core that I believed was the essence of each. I found what I considered the best of it all in Taoism. Even this has many branches, but I stuck with the simple core belief of balance. Everything in life comes in two's. For every force there is its opposite. For everything that is, there is its opposite. We are, at our core, no different.

It is exemplified by my avatar, which I made for myself. The dot in the center represents my center, my life force. The circle surrounding that represents my physical body and mind.

The black and white represents the swirling forces of positive and negative, which while external, certainly influence the internal tendencies. My goal is to remain rooted in the center, being pulled neither too far in one direction or the other.

It is not easy, but becomes easier with practice. Meditation and Tai Chi aid in that goal. It works for me.

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A great many people will think they are thinking when they are merely rearranging their prejudices. ~ William James ~

Every beleif in God and an experiance of His Love touches an extent of MYSTICISM. A vivid experiance DOES vary person to person, not faith to faith.

A vivid experiance varies without any distinction of prophits or prophecies, space or time. It's a pure personal experiance depending on onces involvement.

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*It's wonderful to know that all languages are Greek if not understood.*

Epiphileon,
For a good summary of Buddhism, Hinduism and Jainism, and their theologies, the best reference is A L Basham's "The Wonder that was India".

Hinduism is the longest surviving polytheistic religion; some scholars like S Radhakrishnan have suggested that this belief in many deities was only superficial. Another excellent refrence is Alain Danielou's "Hindu Polytheism"

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"Tiger! Tiger!...my mistake...I thought I was William Blake" ~Ogden Nash

Thanks Leon, I read a bit before I went to work, looks interesting. I have it open in another tab and will check it out as time allows; however, I am very interested in what's up with Jaynes right now. I really wish more investigators were making some attempt at the question of origin of consciousness. It is almost as if there is still a taboo on the subject.

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" I really wish more investigators were making some attempt at the question of origin of consciousness. It is almost as if there is still a taboo on the subject."



Unless you are of a creationist stance, you will likely have met similar 'difficulties' with the evolution of vision, particularly colour vision. A gradualist approach does not bother Dawkins et al as some vision is still better than none and you can make arguments for day/night vision differences ( dark vision may have evolved for creatures that needed to hide safely from predators. Night vision would help if your dark hiding place harboured other predators. Lack of it and you won't have any offspring.) Colour vision is easier (food, camouflage and predators)Our particular three colour system is shared with most of the ape/monkey family but is not shared, for example, by many relatives (monkeys not humans!) in the New World indicating that it was a one-off mutation. What would such a mutation have 'felt' like for its user? They might see things their ancestors couldn't which one would suppose would be an advantage in terms of reproduction. If ones young relatives starting rapidly outperforming you on the hunting grounds it might seem like something of a miraculous development. This is about as close a parallel I can see to a view of self-consciousness evolving in a sudden way. Just a thought.

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"Millions long for immortality who don't know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon" Suzanne Ertz

Thanks for the reply leonAzul. I wasn't equating them, just drawing a parallel. You would have to learn to use your extra spectral receptor before you could take advantage of it, so too with any dramatic change in consciousness (by given notion). I do 'drop in' occasionally on the JJ thread to see any new developments (no not you JJ!).

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"Millions long for immortality who don't know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon" Suzanne Ertz