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 Rank: Advanced Member
Joined: 5/23/2010 Posts: 111 Points: 326 Location: Toronto
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Commonwealth is an association comprising the United Kingdom, its dependencies, and many former British colonies that are now sovereign states with a common allegiance to the British Crown. All member states recognize the reigning British sovereign as Head of the Commonwealth. But, Are they really sovereign nations? That is the question. What is the difference between colonialism and commonwealth nations since Britain is ruling and controlling the interest and wealth of these nations? There is no difference and there is no common wealth between these nations. Is commonwealth another form of colonization? At this present day we don't need such an organization which uses "string attached" to aid to this sovereign countries. It's time for a break up. Read more>>>
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 Rank: Advanced Member
Joined: 9/21/2009 Posts: 19,903 Points: 59,715 Location: Helsinki, Finland
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You can quite easily find information of both Commonwealth of Nations and Commonwealth Realm.
I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve.
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 Rank: Advanced Member
Joined: 7/8/2010 Posts: 4,252 Points: 12,721 Location: iceland
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it is not just old empire, countries that used to be Portuguese and Belgian colonies and were never in the British Empire have applied to join - newest members are Mozambique and Rwanda.
And (assuming Pakistan is a member again, I think it rejoined?)anything that can get India and Pakistan peacefully in the same organisation has got to be a good step.
Most of these ex-empire states assserted independence and only joined back into the Commonwealth when they were confident in their own statehood. For instance Bangladesh joined after it won its independence from Pakistan, long after the British had left.
Also, the British empire being sea-based as it was, it comprised a great number of small islands, and there is economy of scale, while they chose to remain independent states, in having a global organisation to be a part of.
It is a very strange setup. but it does seem to have a role, or countries would not choose to be members!
[and according to the wikep, both Sudan and new South Sudan have applied to join! That will keep the diplomats busy! Along with Algeria - I seem to remember a very nasty anti-(French)-imperialist war there, so I am sure they would not apply to join anything they considered the least bit imperialist! And Madagascar and Somaliland (which isn't even an independent country at the moment!) So the Commonwealth must have something pretty good going for it!
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Rank: Advanced Member
Joined: 5/14/2010 Posts: 1,416 Points: 4,260 Location: Argentina
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Sooner or later: the Falklands Islands.(And Antarctica)
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 Rank: Advanced Member
Joined: 9/2/2009 Posts: 3,243 Points: 9,852 Location: Australia
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jcbarros, what do you mean, especially about Antartica?
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 Rank: Advanced Member
Joined: 2/13/2010 Posts: 3,098 Points: 9,315 Location: United States
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Britian doesn't control the policies and the governments of commonwealth nations.
Gotta agree with Tov, what about Antarctica? No single nation owns that bit of real estate.
"Be without fear in the face of your enemies. Be brave and upright that God may love thee. Speak the truth always, even if it leads to your death. Safeguard the helpless, and do no wrong". (Knight's Oath, Kingdom of Heaven)
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 Rank: Advanced Member
Joined: 6/1/2011 Posts: 1,004 Points: 1,909 Location: United Kingdom
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Being a member of the commmonwealth is by choice and acceptance... not by compulsion.
It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it. Aristotle
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 Rank: Advanced Member
Joined: 7/8/2010 Posts: 4,252 Points: 12,721 Location: iceland
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 Rank: Advanced Member
Joined: 10/21/2009 Posts: 1,449 Points: 4,342 Location: Pakistan
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I don't find a real purpose of the organisation except for some good memories of British empire. Pakistan's membership canceled 4 times. First two cancelations caused by the military coupe, third one caused by the nuke tests. It was the time when our democracy faced far worst sanctions than of the military regimes.
The fourth one is very strange. Gen. Musharaf occupied his country, but the cancelation didn't take longer, all doors to prosperity and treasures were opened to Pakistan for a single "yes sir" to war on terror.
*It's wonderful to know that all languages are Greek if not understood.*
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 Rank: Advanced Member
Joined: 9/21/2009 Posts: 19,903 Points: 59,715 Location: Helsinki, Finland
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Jeech, from that article I linked:
The member states co-operate within a framework of common values and goals as outlined in the Singapore Declaration. These include the promotion of democracy, human rights, good governance, the rule of law, individual liberty, egalitarianism, free trade, multilateralism and world peace. The Commonwealth is not a political union, but an intergovernmental organisation through which countries with diverse social, political and economic backgrounds are regarded as equal in status.
I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve.
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 Rank: Advanced Member
Joined: 10/21/2009 Posts: 1,449 Points: 4,342 Location: Pakistan
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Thank you JJ. But I'd avoid to be fierce again on criticising, and leave a compent with the hope you won't ask me explainations. Let me say the declaration for common values and goals, from promotion of democracy, to world's peace, is being molesterd. It may have good history prior to 911.
*It's wonderful to know that all languages are Greek if not understood.*
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 Rank: Advanced Member
Joined: 12/29/2009 Posts: 3,987 Points: 12,207 Location: India
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Perhaps OP is misinformed about the association. Teluu wrote:... What is the difference between colonialism and commonwealth nations since Britain is ruling and controlling the interest and wealth of these nations? ... Of course, Commonwealth group has its roots in British empire and its colonies, but it is not like Britain ruling and controlling these nations. This association is not political uniion, as JJ points it out. As Singapore Declaration states, the objectives of this association are democracy, world peace, free trade, individual euality and liberty. We are responsible for what we are, and whatever we wish ourselves to be, we have the power to make ourselves. ~ Swami Vivekanand
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 Rank: Advanced Member
Joined: 7/8/2010 Posts: 4,252 Points: 12,721 Location: iceland
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someone has been doing some hate-stirring about imperialistic control - I would look very closely at their motives for any misinformation. I would suspect they want the control to be entirely undemocratically in their hands, rather than elected politicians, seeking aid and support by joining an organisation designed purely for mutual help and cooperation! The Commonwealth is hot on democracy (Fiji is currently suspended for a coup, Zimbabwe stormed out in a huff!). The point of common - wealth is actually a socialist one - the rich pay to help the poor: Quote:Funding The Secretariat and its work are financed by three separate budgets or funds. The budget of the Secretariat itself is based on assessed contributions. Governments contribute on an agreed scale based on capacity to pay. Starting 2009/2010, the Commonwealth Youth Programme (CYP) is also financed by assessed contributions. The Commonwealth Fund for Technical Cooperation (CFTC) is financed by voluntary contributions. For 2009/2010, the Secretariat’s budget was UK£14,995,745, the CFTC’s UK£29,168,723 and the CYP’s UK£2,815,018 million.
Funding the Commonwealth Fund for Technical Co-operation (CFTC) All contributions to the CFTC are voluntary. Over the past six years, the largest contributors have been [I think alphabetically] Australia, Botswana, Brunei Darussalam, Canada, India, New Zealand, Nigeria and the UK. Some member countries’ overseas territories and associated states also contribute. For various special CFTC projects, contributions have been received from non-Commonwealth governments and voluntary organisations
Objective The Secretariat aims to strengthen policies and systems that support economic growth in our member countries. We help Commonwealth countries take advantage of opportunities for economic growth and improve their ability to manage their economic development in the long-term.
Relevance Our work is mandated by Commonwealth Heads of Governments and Ministerial meetings, which set the broad priorities. We respond to demand for assistance in the mandated areas. Programmes are adjusted over time to adapt to developments in the international economic environment as well as to take into account the evolving needs of member countries. We aim to be flexible and responsive to the needs of our membership.
As globalisation has advanced, many small states and countries in Africa have been marginalised and their share of global trade and investment has declined. This is the result of a variety factors. Growth in these areas has been faster elsewhere as these countries have frequently been hampered by lack of readily available information for investors and trading partners and an entrenched misperception of risk. Although Africa has achieved improved macro-economic stability, investment remains sluggish and progress towards the Millennium Development Goals has been disappointing. In order to achieve these goals, economic growth needs to be pro-poor and inclusive. The vulnerability of small states has been made more evident in recent years by faster than anticipated trade preferences, a worsening debt profile; HIV/AIDS; greater frequency and intensity of natural disasters; and increased youth unemployment, crime and insecurity.
South Asia has recorded impressive economic growth rates this decade but inclusive growth remains a priority for countries in the region. Despite progress in reducing the number of poor, the region continues to be home to the largest number of the world’s poor. Persistent challenges remain in the delivery of basic services to the deprived which is compounded by rapid urbanisation and inadequate rural infrastructure.
At the global level, financial instability in major markets, barriers to trade in both goods and services, shortcomings in institutional trading arrangements as well as shortcomings in global economic governance continue to impact on economic prospects of developing countries. Not sure how this all works in practice (any large global organisation has its issues!) but it is certainly not controlled by Britain. Nobody would be queueing up to join, would they?
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 Rank: Advanced Member
Joined: 10/21/2009 Posts: 1,449 Points: 4,342 Location: Pakistan
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Thank you thar, I agree, and that the org may have run like the old beaurocratic way. That's why it supported a military regime of Pakistan on the occasion when a war on Afghan people was waged. It supported some members who kept closed trade with neighbouring countries and a member India who established world's largest millitary concentration on the occupied Kashmir where mass graving Kashmiris is happening right now.
Nothing wheighs on Britain for sure. Who blame Britania?
This is my opinion that not neccessarily be agreed with OP.
*It's wonderful to know that all languages are Greek if not understood.*
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 Rank: Advanced Member
Joined: 9/21/2009 Posts: 19,903 Points: 59,715 Location: Helsinki, Finland
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Jeech, before just throwing in assumptions and fallacies, some digging for the background information could be a good idea.
Now that you mentioned Kashmir again, you still haven't answered my question about Pakistan occupying 40% of that country.
I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve.
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 Rank: Advanced Member
Joined: 9/2/2009 Posts: 3,243 Points: 9,852 Location: Australia
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Australia has had independence from Britain since 1901.
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 Rank: Advanced Member
Joined: 6/30/2010 Posts: 5,697 Points: 17,030 Location: Canada
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Hmmm, the friends of your enemy may not be your friends. Do try not to sway with every change of regime, it's exhausting, but you will ( on the plus side ) have great abs. Do we really need a list of nations that have fought in Afghanistan/Kashmir/India/Pakistan/Bangladesh/Armenia/Tibet/Nepal/Iraq/Iran/Palestine... over the years who may have offended Jeech ? Dude, if you're so pissed off with our imperialistic aggression stop taking the aid. I don't remember Britain/Canada/U.S./France/Germany...appealing for aid from you guys. Before you start throwing stones at our glass houses I would suggest putting some tape on the cracks in your own.
Sanity is not statistical
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 Rank: Advanced Member
Joined: 10/21/2009 Posts: 1,449 Points: 4,342 Location: Pakistan
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Jyrkkä Jätkä wrote:Jeech, before just throwing in assumptions and fallacies, some digging for the background information could be a good idea.
Now that you mentioned Kashmir again, you still haven't answered my question about Pakistan occupying 40% of that country.
Dear, you didn't respond to the answer I gave responding to you question about the 40% of that disputed land. Did you remember I spoke of the UN resolutions. *It's wonderful to know that all languages are Greek if not understood. *
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 Rank: Advanced Member
Joined: 10/21/2009 Posts: 1,449 Points: 4,342 Location: Pakistan
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excaelis wrote:Hmmm, the friends of your enemy may not be your friends. Do try not to sway with every change of regime, it's exhausting, but you will ( on the plus side ) have great abs. Do we really need a list of nations that have fought in Afghanistan/Kashmir/India/Pakistan/Bangladesh/Armenia/Tibet/Nepal/Iraq/Iran/Palestine... over the years who may have offended Jeech ? Dude, if you're so pissed off with our imperialistic aggression stop taking the aid. I don't remember Britain/Canada/U.S./France/Germany...appealing for aid from you guys. Before you start throwing stones at our glass houses I would suggest putting some tape on the cracks in your own.
Wonderful! Excaelis, I thought someone would give me a favour for my support to democracy and peaceful solutions to the conflicts. But sad to know that my criticism to the org's support to dictatorship in Pakistan and warior policies, is considered enemity. Who really is the CommenWealth's enemy, as par it's mission statement? As for the stone of "aid" you throw is concerned, it's what the dictators (which the Org supports) needs, not we Pakistanis. It's really shocking how daring it is to speak morality to some people. *It's wonderful to know that all languages are Greek if not understood. *
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 Rank: Advanced Member
Joined: 1/29/2011 Posts: 147 Points: 444 Location: India
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Before you speak of Kashmir Jeech it would be a good idea if you did a little research on the topic and used unbiased or less biased sources for reference. This is a very touchy topic and both governments have their points of view.
As for refrendum, though I personally am in favour of one and believe its long due, one must also consider that thousands upon thousands of Kashmiri Pandits (A Hindu Caste, the first Prime Minister of India was also a Kashmiri pandit) were forcefully and very violently uprooted from their homeland. They are still living in refugee camps. If you are sympathetic to palestines I think the Pandits deserve your sympathy too.
As for mass graves as in most of the world where there is heavy military presence in a conflict area there are atrocities committed by the military but they are not as bad as your media might make them out to be (not in Kashmir region any way, North east I can't defend but that is for another topic). Besides, unbiased elections are regularly held in Kashmir and people come out in large numbers to vote, it has become safer over the years and there is finally some optimism in respect to the economy. Tourism is flourishing again, infact it has increased dramatically in recent years. Many of the border villages are sympathetic to India to such an extent that the military trains the men and women there and provides them guns for defence, there is actualy an official term for this but I forgot.
As for intolerance, most of the nation is still more sensitive towards the daily inconvenience the people, mainly muslims have to face in their daily lives in Kashmir than the plight of displaced hindus or that of people in North east, in fact our media is VERY sensitive to Kashmiri people's problem and that receives huge coverage with the government and military usually at the receiving end. But I can't imagine stories about atrocities committed on the Pandits in Pakistani media, I might be wrong though. Seperatists regularly hold public meetings not only in Kashmir but recently in New Delhi itself. Seperatists are tolerated, in fact booker prize winner Arundhati Roy (A hindu) even shared the stage with an influential seperatist leader, and no one is crushing or killing them that too when both of us know that our countries are not too keen on defending our right to free speech.
Anyway we went off topic we can discuss Kashmir some other time, just wanted to tell you that as always there are different points of view, and the certainity with which you express your views its better to remember there is always ample scope for error and room for doubt specially with a topic like this.
The world makes way for the man who knows where he is going. ~ Ralph Waldo Emerson
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 Rank: Advanced Member
Joined: 10/21/2009 Posts: 1,449 Points: 4,342 Location: Pakistan
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Rusty wrote:Before you speak of Kashmir Jeech it would be a good idea if you did a little research on the topic and used unbiased or less biased sources for reference. This is a very touchy topic and both governments have their points of view.
As for refrendum, though I personally am in favour of one and believe its long due, one must also consider that thousands upon thousands of Kashmiri Pandits (A Hindu Caste, the first Prime Minister of India was also a Kashmiri pandit) were forcefully and very violently uprooted from their homeland. They are still living in refugee camps. If you are sympathetic to palestines I think the Pandits deserve your sympathy too.
As for mass graves as in most of the world where there is heavy military presence in a conflict area there are atrocities committed by the military but they are not as bad as your media might make them out to be (not in Kashmir region any way, North east I can't defend but that is for another topic). Besides, unbiased elections are regularly held in Kashmir and people come out in large numbers to vote, it has become safer over the years and there is finally some optimism in respect to the economy. Tourism is flourishing again, infact it has increased dramatically in recent years. Many of the border villages are sympathetic to India to such an extent that the military trains the men and women there and provides them guns for defence, there is actualy an official term for this but I forgot.
As for intolerance, most of the nation is still more sensitive towards the daily inconvenience the people, mainly muslims have to face in their daily lives in Kashmir than the plight of displaced hindus or that of people in North east, in fact our media is VERY sensitive to Kashmiri people's problem and that receives huge coverage with the government and military usually at the receiving end. But I can't imagine stories about atrocities committed on the Pandits in Pakistani media, I might be wrong though. Seperatists regularly hold public meetings not only in Kashmir but recently in New Delhi itself. Seperatists are tolerated, in fact booker prize winner Arundhati Roy (A hindu) even shared the stage with an influential seperatist leader, and no one is crushing or killing them that too when both of us know that our countries are not too keen on defending our right to free speech.
Anyway we went off topic we can discuss Kashmir some other time, just wanted to tell you that as always there are different points of view, and the certainity with which you express your views its better to remember there is always ample scope for error and room for doubt specially with a topic like this. ` Hey Rusty, I don't mind if you are only to down me in your first and last peragraphs. Like other rivalries you also skipped without indicating where exactly I'm wrong. What's your view on the Common Wealth and it's support of an aggressive dictorial regime of Pakistan meanwhile it's engaged in overthrowing Afghan government and waging war on the people of Afghanistan? You agree on it with me or not, and why?It could have been a healthy discussion if you spoke on Kashmir in the specific thread I opened some days ago. Anyway, I appriciate you for giving a tad heat to the jam-packed ice. *It's wonderful to know that all languages are Greek if not understood. *
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 Rank: Advanced Member
Joined: 9/9/2010 Posts: 908 Points: 2,639 Location: Australia
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Jeech, you made the following statement directed at Rusty; What's your view on the Common Wealth and it's support of an aggressive dictorial regime of Pakistan meanwhile it's engaged in overthrowing Afghan government and waging war on the people of Afghanistan? You agree on it with me or not, and why?
The Commonwealth has nothing to do with the, your words, "overthrowing of the Afghan Government". Some countries, which are members of the Commonwealth, have committed troops and other logistic support to that government in order to give the Afghan people a chance to form a democracy, self governed and able to defend itself. Many of these countries have lost non combatant people, as well as soldiers, who have been killed trying to replace infrastructure, building schools, train the Afghan Army,etc. Hardly an act of waging war. Maybe you have difficulty determining who it is, but, to the best of my knowledge, it is the Taliban who are attempting to take over Afghanistan.
RULES ARE FOR THE OBEYENCE OF FOOLS AND FOR THE GUIDENCE OF WISE MEN
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 Rank: Advanced Member
Joined: 10/21/2009 Posts: 1,449 Points: 4,342 Location: Pakistan
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Hi Ray41,
A millitary coup by Gen. Musharaf caused Pakistan's suspension from the org. (1999)
The same dictator's help to dictate democray-by-sowrd in Afghanistan fulfilled Pakistan's qualification to rejoin the org. (2004)
I don't mind to repeat the same point again and again to make it clear.
*It's wonderful to know that all languages are Greek if not understood.*
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 Rank: Advanced Member
Joined: 9/9/2010 Posts: 908 Points: 2,639 Location: Australia
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I will not debate this issue with you Jeech as, going by what you posted;A millitary coup by Gen. Musharaf caused Pakistan's suspension from the org. (1999) The same dictator's help to dictate democray-by-sowrd in Afghanistan fulfilled Pakistan's qualification to rejoin the org. (2004) So, Pakistan was expelled from the Commonwealth in 1999, overthrew the Afghan Government before 2004, and in doing so, earned the right to be reinstated as a Commonwealth country Please do not "mind to repeat the same point again and again to make it clear". It will only confuse the issue further.
RULES ARE FOR THE OBEYENCE OF FOOLS AND FOR THE GUIDENCE OF WISE MEN
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 Rank: Advanced Member
Joined: 10/21/2009 Posts: 1,449 Points: 4,342 Location: Pakistan
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... I don't want to debate either... but don't leave with such ambiguity Ray41.
Why don't anybody condomn the military regime of Pakistan and an illigal and immoral international support to him? Where are the champions of democracy?
*It's wonderful to know that all languages are Greek if not understood.*
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