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Do they know the words 'respect' and 'shame' ? Options
ClubFavolosa
Posted: Thursday, January 12, 2012 3:31:18 AM

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American soldiers show weird behavior. In war things happen not allowed in normal life, but what's in this video in my opinion is way beyond limits. Sorry to say. I've been in the army only 14 months. I don't think this was part of their education. 'nuff said.

Give a man a fish you feed him for a day; teach a man to fish you feed him for a lifetime - Chinese proverb
boneyfriend
Posted: Thursday, January 12, 2012 8:22:48 AM

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Club, that story was on the news last night and it was stated that the army was taking action about the act.
Jyrkkä Jätkä
Posted: Thursday, January 12, 2012 8:55:23 AM

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To enlist and get dressed in uniform won't wipe off the innate stupidity.


I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve.
TL Hobs
Posted: Thursday, January 12, 2012 10:05:07 AM

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I do not condone what these soldiers did, nor am I making any excuse for their behavior, but, the event raises the question, in my mind, is urinating on a corpse any more disrespectful than beheading, or dismembering it? I don't hear the outrage from the Taliban when their troops do such acts to their enemies.

Just a thought...



"Always wash your hands and say your prayers for germs and Jesus are everywhere." -Naomi Judd
Jyrkkä Jätkä
Posted: Thursday, January 12, 2012 10:23:04 AM

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Hobs,
folks could expect the American soldiers to respect the rules of honour more accurately than Talebans.
That's why these kind of incidents end up in the main news around the globe.
Talebans' atrocities are expected and thus not so big news.


I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve.
Truthseeker
Posted: Thursday, January 12, 2012 12:30:13 PM

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Jyrkkä Jätkä wrote:
Hobs,
folks could expect the American soldiers to respect the rules of honour more accurately than Talebans.
That's why these kind of incidents end up in the main news around the globe.
Talebans' atrocities are expected and thus not so big news.


The hypocrisy here is that the Taliban are outraged by this incident. THAT should be news - big news. If we accept your thinking, then no matter how egregious an action, if the person/group who committed it is already known for such behavior, then we should just give it a pass in the media.

I don't think the majority of the people would accept this as ok.


Everyone thinks of changing the world, but no one thinks of changing himself. Leo Tolstoy
ClubFavolosa
Posted: Thursday, January 12, 2012 3:24:06 PM

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I know a retired officer of Dutch army and called it a scandal and weak leadership. I don't know why boneyfriend is defending the nowadays American army. I thought they were christians. Perhaps the word 'were' was rarely used as appropriate as it was now.

Give a man a fish you feed him for a day; teach a man to fish you feed him for a lifetime - Chinese proverb
Jyrkkä Jätkä
Posted: Thursday, January 12, 2012 4:31:07 PM

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Truthseeker wrote:
Jyrkkä Jätkä wrote:
Hobs,
folks could expect the American soldiers to respect the rules of honour more accurately than Talebans.
That's why these kind of incidents end up in the main news around the globe.
Talebans' atrocities are expected and thus not so big news.


The hypocrisy here is that the Taliban are outraged by this incident. THAT should be news - big news. If we accept your thinking, then no matter how egregious an action, if the person/group who committed it is already known for such behavior, then we should just give it a pass in the media.

I don't think the majority of the people would accept this as ok.


You put the world upside down again, but that's no news.

Can you give some clear explanation what do you mean by "hypocrisy" here?
What do you mean exactly with "your thinking"?
Can you be so kind to read my post again and get your both brain blocks together at the same time.
Boo hoo!


I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve.
FounDit
Posted: Thursday, January 12, 2012 4:39:13 PM

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I am having a visceral reaction to the comments made here about this incident. However, I am trying to maintain my calm.

As a combat veteran, I've experienced ........ allow me to simply say, Don't judge unless you've been there.

ClubFavolosa,
Not everyone in the U.S. is a Christian, and not everyone in the Armed Forces is a Christian; even Christians have been known to be pushed too far.

That's all I'll say about it....perhaps shouldn't even say that much, but couldn't let it go.



A great many people will think they are thinking when they are merely rearranging their prejudices. ~ William James ~
Truthseeker
Posted: Thursday, January 12, 2012 4:56:12 PM

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Jyrkkä Jätkä wrote:

Can you give some clear explanation what do you mean by "hypocrisy" here?
What do you mean exactly with "your thinking"?
Can you be so kind to read my post again and get your both brain blocks together at the same time.
Boo hoo!


Soooooooooooo JJ. I see that you still get a thrill from personal attacks against someone you'll never see face to face. Nothing new here. As for hypocrisy, the Taliban are incensed about American soldiers urinating on dead Taliban soldiers while they think nothing of beheading live Americans while the world watches.

You see no hypocrisy in this.

And YOU refer to MY brain blocks. Just how many Karjalas did you have before making this post?

Everyone thinks of changing the world, but no one thinks of changing himself. Leo Tolstoy
Jeech
Posted: Thursday, January 12, 2012 4:59:02 PM

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The world's troops went to teach Taliban the lesson; the Taliban taught them instead.

*It's wonderful to know that all languages are Greek if not understood.*
martyg
Posted: Thursday, January 12, 2012 5:31:39 PM
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@Jyrkkä
<.Talebans' atrocities are expected and thus not so big news.>

so the unexpected, such as the recent swedish massacre is considered big news, as there were no taliban.

but a little wartime finnish history lesson might cause you to not make such one sided comments. each ugly event has a life of its own and the closer your are to the event, the more the impact, obviously. there are approx 350 million americans and i would venture to say that, except for a few nuts, the overwhelming american populace doesn't approve.
nowherenothere
Posted: Thursday, January 12, 2012 5:34:43 PM

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Flagrant. Somewhere in here one or more offenses pertaining to the circumstance may be found:

http://www.ucmj.us/

Forgiving is Love, Love is For Giving.
Jyrkkä Jätkä
Posted: Thursday, January 12, 2012 5:46:51 PM

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martyg wrote:
@Jyrkkä
<.Talebans' atrocities are expected and thus not so big news.>

so the unexpected, such as the recent swedish massacre is considered big news, as there were no taliban.

but a little wartime finnish history lesson might cause you to not make such one sided comments. each ugly event has a life of its own and the closer your are to the event, the more the impact, obviously. there are approx 350 million americans and i would venture to say that, except for a few nuts, the overwhelming american populace doesn't approve.


What Swedish massacre?

The rest of your post will give me fun for months. Thank you!


I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve.
HWNN1961
Posted: Thursday, January 12, 2012 6:32:05 PM

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My thoughts:

1. We have standards of conduct. That some of our enemies don't, or choose to ignore their standards if they do have them, is immaterial. The conduct was odious.

2. Beyond performing this act, they filmed it?! If I'm about to deploy to that region, I'd want to shake each of these "gentlemen" by the neck! The enviromnet...already dangerous, will only get worse due to this flagrant act.

3. The US military is the "face" of America in these war zones. We are trying to win over the populations there. Every soldier and airman has that drilled into their heads over and over again. As an American and retired Air Force, these men don't represent my country or me.

"Be without fear in the face of your enemies. Be brave and upright that God may love thee. Speak the truth always, even if it leads to your death. Safeguard the helpless, and do no wrong". (Knight's Oath, Kingdom of Heaven)
Maggie
Posted: Thursday, January 12, 2012 6:55:08 PM

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HWNN1961 wrote:
My thoughts:

1. We have standards of conduct. That some of our enemies don't, or choose to ignore their standards if they do have them, is immaterial. The conduct was odious.

2. Beyond performing this act, they filmed it?! If I'm about to deploy to that region, I'd want to shake each of these "gentlemen" by the neck! The enviromnet...already dangerous, will only get worse due to this flagrant act.

3. The US military is the "face" of America in these war zones. We are trying to win over the populations there. Every soldier and airman has that drilled into their heads over and over again. As an American and retired Air Force, these men don't represent my country or me.


I completely agree with you, HWNN. I also agree with Truthseeker that it's grossly hypocritical of the Taliban to criticize the act in the face of some of the things they do routinely. (And no, JJ, just because the Taliban routinely commit atrocities, it isn't justification for the media to pass on coverage.)

I haven't seen the tape, nor has it yet been screened to see if it is genuine. But if it is, then it is deplorable.

"The nearest thing to eternal life we will ever see on this earth is a government program." - Ronald Reagan
Tovarish
Posted: Thursday, January 12, 2012 7:28:22 PM

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Desecration of a body is not acceptable in any way, military or civilian.
Smart Aleck
Posted: Friday, January 13, 2012 12:48:21 AM

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These American SOLDIERS should be ashamed of themselves.

Sometimes It's Not Good To Remain Mum
Rusty
Posted: Friday, January 13, 2012 12:51:40 AM

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I agree with JJ; the Amercan forces have standards not the taliban. Whether taliban has a code of conduct is immaterial here, the American forces have a code of conduct and they ought to honor it.

Jeech was spot on.

And though for me Taliban represents the worst of humanity and I belive they should be wiped off the planet, in this particular incident I don't see much of hypocrisy. If tomorrow taliban soldiers urinate on corpses of american soldiers would the army be outraged or issue a press statement that says, "Hey! Our guys did it too. Everything is fine. No Big deal"? Does that make them hypocrites?

I hate the Indian army for what it does in the Red Corridor and North East. Those soldiers live in situation worse than most soldiers in the world, lot worse than Afganistan I believe, they are periodically ambushed, caught, tortured and left to die horrible deaths. Seeing that done to their freinds doesn't justify the murders, rapes and other atrocities many of those soldiers commit. The psyological trauma doesn't justfy the rape of an 11 year old now, does it?

The army has a code of conduct and they must follow it. If they are going to be like terrorists why go to war in the first place?

The world makes way for the man who knows where he is going. ~ Ralph Waldo Emerson
Rusty
Posted: Friday, January 13, 2012 12:59:21 AM

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Besides everything cannot be looked in terms of its absolute value. There are things like honor and respect. If I punch someone in the face and break their nose, it will cause more damage than if I give them a hard slap across the face in front of 20 people. But which would hurt more?

Now this is a harsh one:

What is worse, raping a man/woman while they lie over naked bodies of their parents who are still alive, or just putting a bullet in their heads?

Same goes with war too. To my eyes if they had tortured the soldiers before killing them it would have been less offensive then urinating/ defecating over their corpses.

The world makes way for the man who knows where he is going. ~ Ralph Waldo Emerson
Jeech
Posted: Saturday, January 14, 2012 5:45:24 AM

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Taliban was a political threat, it should have delt with politics. Spreading democracy by "sword" was the main friction of the war episode in Afghanistan. It's impossible to the forces in Afghanistan, to be morally correct as long as they hold accupation of Afghanistan.

Sucide bombing and the extra judicial killing either by Taliban or by the foriegn forces in Afghanistan is neither a beauty nor a pride to the locals. What attracts the people there is freedom fighting. Fighting for the country's freedom has strengthend their morale, and has made them heroes.That's why Taliban holds more than 70% of Afghanistan. The consequences of war on terror has resulted quite in reverse. It has helped them expand. I would reassert, Taliban was a political threat, it should have delt with politics. Unfortunately, or by design it took 10 years to learn that 'rocket science.'

Now the US is on table with Taliban, Benazir Bhutto is approved appropriate when she signed agreements with Taliban govrnment. Now the videos on record apear only to make puplic opinion to quit, quite Iraq way.

*It's wonderful to know that all languages are Greek if not understood.*
Smart Aleck
Posted: Saturday, January 14, 2012 11:56:58 AM

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Jeech wrote:
Taliban was a political threat, it should have delt with politics. Spreading democracy by "sword" was the main friction of the war episode in Afghanistan. It's impossible to the forces in Afghanistan, to be morally correct as long as they hold accupation of Afghanistan.

Sucide bombing and the extra judicial killing either by Taliban or by the foriegn forces in Afghanistan is neither a beauty nor a pride to the locals. What attracts the people there is freedom fighting. Fighting for the country's freedom has strengthend their morale, and has made them heroes.That's why Taliban holds more than 70% of Afghanistan. The consequences of war on terror has resulted quite in reverse. It has helped them expand. I would reassert, Taliban was a political threat, it should have delt with politics. Unfortunately, or by design it took 10 years to learn that 'rocket science.'

Now the US is on table with Taliban, Benazir Bhutto is approved appropriate when she signed agreements with Taliban govrnment. Now the videos on record apear only to make puplic opinion to quit, quite Iraq way.


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Sometimes It's Not Good To Remain Mum
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