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abcxyz wrote:NancyLee wrote:abcxyz wrote:Thank you all for your comments.
Do you have any opinion or comment? Seems only fair that you share a little...?  I created this thread in order to have a better view on this topic. So there's nothing particularly unfair about my not commenting on a topic that I have a hazy idea about, given the fact that it's your home country, not mine, where the protests are currently taking place. If you're really interested in my opinion about the American Occupy movement, which I do not mind sharing at all, then here it is: the protesters seem to mostly belong to the economically disadvantageous class with elements from radical left(not the democrats). They do not have a fixed set of demands yet, nor a fixed set of leaders - as to the reason I have 2 guesses, 1. the organizers want the support of all who are dissatisfied with the present system to escalate the protests to the point where a revolution can happen; 2. the movement has been/is being hijacked by elements who want to control the protests so that it does not become anything radical and harm the interests of some in the "1%". Have you spent any time at any of the protests? I doubt it. It's fairly clear you have not in fact. The "liberal" <cough> media <cough> (which I have YET to encounter in my decades on this planet, have chosen to show the "hippies" as many here may seem to view them, but I assure you I found plenty of people middle class or upper middle class protesting. Who else can spend their days protesting other than health care professionals, public safety workers and other 24/7 workers who don't have the leisure of working days only...though of course in many places the nights are important protest times too. Veterans are hardly "disadvantageous class" nor are they usually considered fringe left wingers (though in fact many are--nothing like BEING in war to become anti-war). Nothing like seeing your friends blown up beside you for some president's buddies can profiteer while attempting to turn a sovereign nation into a tax free business utopia to turn an apolitical person to the left, I'll tell ya, but I digress. You don't know what you're talking about. The fact is the purity of a truly organic grassroots movement is perfectly capable of getting its message across, which it most certainly has, without a few main leaders who can be assassinated or bought off or intimidated into silence. It is EXTREMELY wise to remain is UNORGANIZED (I did not say disorganized, which is NOT the case) as possible. I suggest you not pontificate on that which you do not understand, with all due respect of course.
Be not afraid to live. ~Henry James~
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Acerbic:
I read your replies with great interest. No offense taken. I thought maybe you'd tell me that I was part of the problem (I am, I've lost any semblance or respect for people like the "seeker" and therefore it is an instant shouting match when I see that idiot post here).
But, I'm part of the solution too. I wish you and all of those that let ther passion for an America worth living in motivate them to protest. Keep it going.
"Be without fear in the face of your enemies. Be brave and upright that God may love thee. Speak the truth always, even if it leads to your death. Safeguard the helpless, and do no wrong". (Knight's Oath, Kingdom of Heaven)
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Acerbic:
I read your replies with great interest. No offense taken. I thought maybe you'd tell me that I was part of the problem (I am, I've lost any semblance of respect for people like the "seeker" and therefore it is an instant shouting match when I see that idiot post here).
But, I'm part of the solution too. I wish you and all of those that let ther passion for an America worth living in motivate them to protest. Keep it going.
"Be without fear in the face of your enemies. Be brave and upright that God may love thee. Speak the truth always, even if it leads to your death. Safeguard the helpless, and do no wrong". (Knight's Oath, Kingdom of Heaven)
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HWNN1961 wrote:Acerbic:
I've lost any semblance of respect for people like the "seeker" and therefore it is an instant shouting match when I see that idiot post here).
You do offer great amusement, HWNN. As I've said to you many times, your posts offer great entertainment around our water cooler. THIS ONE will be especially pleasing. Coming from you, I consider your statement a tremendous compliment. Though I don't wish to stoop to personal attacks like calling me an idiot (Is that sort of like a troglodyte?) I would say that your leftist positions on issues are not within the mainstream, and are not in the best interests of the American people. Most liberals find that it's much easier to make a personal attack on a conservative thinker than to rationally confront their ideas. There used to be rules on this forum regarding such language, but it's now been modified to allow such debasement FROM Liberals TO conservatives. But no matter. We've become accustomed to it - just like Herman Cain. I do hope you have a great week-end. And - for your sake, I hope the Bills win. cheers
Everyone thinks of changing the world, but no one thinks of changing himself. Leo Tolstoy
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AcerbicRN wrote:abcxyz wrote:NancyLee wrote:abcxyz wrote:Thank you all for your comments.
Do you have any opinion or comment? Seems only fair that you share a little...? I created this thread in order to have a better view on this topic. So there's nothing particularly unfair about my not commenting on a topic that I have a hazy idea about, given the fact that it's your home country, not mine, where the protests are currently taking place. If you're really interested in my opinion about the American Occupy movement, which I do not mind sharing at all, then here it is: the protesters seem to mostly belong to the economically disadvantageous class with elements from radical left(not the democrats). They do not have a fixed set of demands yet, nor a fixed set of leaders - as to the reason I have 2 guesses, 1. the organizers want the support of all who are dissatisfied with the present system to escalate the protests to the point where a revolution can happen; 2. the movement has been/is being hijacked by elements who want to control the protests so that it does not become anything radical and harm the interests of some in the "1%". Have you spent any time at any of the protests? I doubt it. It's fairly clear you have not in fact. The "liberal" <cough> media <cough> (which I have YET to encounter in my decades on this planet, have chosen to show the "hippies" as many here may seem to view them, but I assure you I found plenty of people middle class or upper middle class protesting. Who else can spend their days protesting other than health care professionals, public safety workers and other 24/7 workers who don't have the leisure of working days only...though of course in many places the nights are important protest times too. Veterans are hardly "disadvantageous class" nor are they usually considered fringe left wingers (though in fact many are--nothing like BEING in war to become anti-war). Nothing like seeing your friends blown up beside you for some president's buddies can profiteer while attempting to turn a sovereign nation into a tax free business utopia to turn an apolitical person to the left, I'll tell ya, but I digress. You don't know what you're talking about. The fact is the purity of a truly organic grassroots movement is perfectly capable of getting its message across, which it most certainly has, without a few main leaders who can be assassinated or bought off or intimidated into silence. It is EXTREMELY wise to remain is UNORGANIZED (I did not say disorganized, which is NOT the case) as possible. I suggest you not pontificate on that which you do not understand, with all due respect of course. In your zeal to put me on blast, have you cared to notice my location under my username? Or even the part of my post which you quoted which says that I am not from the USA? Or even the fact that I did not wish to "pontificate" upon this topic at all until someone insisted and I clearly said that I have a hazy idea of OWS in the US? With all due disgust, my advice to you would be next time reply to a post that you have actually read.
In this world there is no literate population that is poor and no illiterate population that is other than poor. - J.K.Galbraith
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It is doubtful anyone will sway another's opinion by resorting to personal attacks due to disagreement or lack of understanding. It makes attempts at effecting any change a moot endeavor and simply turns open dialog into inflammatory rhetoric and affective emotionalism, both on this forum and on the streets in protest. It also makes one's statements less worthy of argument and debate. It does nothing in regards to explaining the situation to someone from another country. It is counterproductive.
One usually can't effectively argue a point unless they understand an opposing perspective, all that is accomplished otherwise is appearing uninformed and unreasonable. It's often difficult to understand a problem unless one views it from many different perspectives, at least as many as possible. Understanding someone elses perspective is not the same as agreement.
The protesters apparently lack substantive leadership. It's difficult to issue a permit to a protesting body that has amorphous leadership. They tend to appear as a rabble lot of malcontents with no defined objective and agenda nor specific grievances. It seems to me that about all they are doing now is massing together with an agreement amongst themselves to disagree with the current economic and political situation. They have accomplished little else. They have offered no viable solutions that I am aware of, they simply demand 'change' for their personal betterment.
I find it disconcerting that supposedly peaceful protests in a few cities have digressed to antagonism and violence, with the police breaking up some protests which resulted in several personal injuries.
I hope the situation does not further digress to one that is reminiscent of what happened at Kent State University. One of the beautiful things about the US is the right of free speech and the right to peaceably assemble. With those rights comes responsibility.
Forgiving is Love, Love is For Giving.
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HWNN1961 wrote:Truthseeker wrote:Well. The Democrat-Socialist-Nazi-Communist Parties are all in support of this protest. That alone speaks volumes.
You do realize that you are a living cartoon....right? Seeker: if I posted a thread on the Knowledge portion of this Forum that denied the existence of gravity, I'd rightly expect polite and uncomfortable silence from some, jokes from others, and outright ridicule from still others. You routinely post bumper-sticker simplistic smack like the above (democrat-socialist-nazi-communist....I mean COME ON). It requires a severe act of self-edit for me to limit my critique of you to what I wrote above. Your own words disparage you far beyond my own meager ability to denigrate.
"Be without fear in the face of your enemies. Be brave and upright that God may love thee. Speak the truth always, even if it leads to your death. Safeguard the helpless, and do no wrong". (Knight's Oath, Kingdom of Heaven)
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HWNN1961 wrote:HWNN1961 wrote:[quote=Truthseeker]Well. The Democrat-Socialist-Nazi-Communist Parties are all in support of this protest. That alone speaks volumes.
Seeker: if I posted a thread on the Knowledge portion of this Forum that denied the existence of gravity, I'd rightly expect polite and uncomfortable silence from some, jokes from others, and outright ridicule from still others. You routinely post bumper-sticker simplistic smack like the above (democrat-socialist-nazi-communist....I mean COME ON). The Nazi and Communist parties have made public statements in support of the protest.
Here's just one of many references to it. If you know how to use Google, you can find many more. I won't do your work for you.
Nazi and Communist parties support wall street protests
It requires a severe act of self-edit for me to limit my critique of you to what I wrote above. Once again, you use personal insults rather than to address specifics. "Symbolism over substance". I have given you documentation for the statement you refer to as 'bumper sticker smack'. Now will you retreat behind yet another verbal barrage? Apparently that's all you have. Your own words disparage you far beyond my own meager ability to denigrate. Y es, your ability to denigrate is meager. But you will continue to make a public spectacle of yourself because you THINK what you say is both erudite and clever. Though it's neither, we do find it amusing and hope you will continue.
Everyone thinks of changing the world, but no one thinks of changing himself. Leo Tolstoy
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Amazing. As scanty as my respect for you was...
You made it less!
Wow.
The website...the inabiity to grasp the historical impossibility of a Nazi Communist, Democrat party:
You belong on the Mount Rushmore of Ignornace.
Your foolishness salutes you my ignorant friend!
"Be without fear in the face of your enemies. Be brave and upright that God may love thee. Speak the truth always, even if it leads to your death. Safeguard the helpless, and do no wrong". (Knight's Oath, Kingdom of Heaven)
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HWNN1961 wrote:Amazing. As scanty as my respect for you was...
You made it less!
Wow.
The website...the inabiity to grasp the historical impossibility of a Nazi Communist, Democrat party:
You belong on the Mount Rushmore of Ignornace.
Your foolishness salutes you my ignorant friend! Symbolism over substance, as predicted. Do you also suffer from other anger management issues, HWNN - like Road Rage? There are some nice rehab centers that could help you with that. Let Google be your friend.
Everyone thinks of changing the world, but no one thinks of changing himself. Leo Tolstoy
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Might I suggest that your fixation on an impossibility like a democrat-socialist-communist-nazi hiding under your bed argues strongly for you letting your uninformed fingers doing that google search? Clearly, you are off your medication, the dosage is wrong, or you have not yet sought the help you need?
I'll leave the last word to you. You'll like that. Clearly being called out for the specious arguements you insist on making doesn't deter you, and I'll not roll in the mud with you further. It seems I'm getting fleas.
"Be without fear in the face of your enemies. Be brave and upright that God may love thee. Speak the truth always, even if it leads to your death. Safeguard the helpless, and do no wrong". (Knight's Oath, Kingdom of Heaven)
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I think Truthseeker means the Nazi party AND the communist party, not a Nazi-communist party.
In this world there is no literate population that is poor and no illiterate population that is other than poor. - J.K.Galbraith
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[quote=HWNN1961]Might I suggest that your fixation on an impossibility like a democrat-socialist-communist-nazi hiding under your bed argues strongly for you letting your uninformed fingers doing that google search? Clearly, you are off your medication, the dosage is wrong, or you have not yet sought the help you need?
To quote one of our greatest U.S. Presidents - “there you go again.” It seems when someone disagrees with you, you lash out with one of your venom laden rants without actually READING their post.
My original post said:
“Well. The Democrat-Socialist-Nazi-Communist Parties are all in support of this protest. That alone speaks volumes.”
Now. Can you see that the parties are referred to in the plural? If not, a trip to your optometrist may be in order.
Your haste to use rudeness and rancor as a discussion tool is exceeded only by your lack of knowledge of the issues at hand.
But - please. Continue. Your offerings present great levity and humor - something we’d greatly miss at our message board.
Everyone thinks of changing the world, but no one thinks of changing himself. Leo Tolstoy
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OWS is a movement in the fine traditions of the US. It has been said that they have no agenda and no leaders but i remind the court that the "Sons of Liberty" had no overall agenda except for those that grievances their colony had the leaders in each colony. They aer seen as young and listless but they are backed by some very influential and rich men like the Sons of Liberty. The OWS id linked with those things that some people have been taught to fear like equal rights equal access to the governing bodies of this country and you could say they want the same rights as those groups and to be treated fairly. So as you discount them remember that this is the same thing that started the American Revolution and look where that got us.
Oh by the way Communism and Fascism are opposites one is authoritarian and the other is collectivist so it can get real hard to to have authoritarian collectivism.
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redgriffin wrote:
Oh by the way Communism and Fascism are opposites one is authoritarian and the other is collectivist so it can get real hard to to have authoritarian collectivism.
We Finns didn't see much difference looking at all the smaller Baltic neighbours forced under rule of totalitarian communism. Stalin and Molotov killed even more Russians than Hitler did.
I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve.
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Being from an arab country, these movements originated from Tunisia when a poor Tunisian man- who sells groceries on a moving cart- set himself on fire as a sort of protest on all the misery his life ended to. This shook the whole tunisian society and ignited the Tunisian revolution, and then by a dominoes effect, the revolutions spread successfully to Egypt and Libya, while the protests-revolutionary movements are still taking place in Yemen, Bahrain and recently Syria..
This , by far, is the best thing that had ever happened to the Arab world in ages. Revolutions haven't accomplished much yet, regime-wise, economy-wise, classes-wise, etc..but to take a step against these dictatorships, to stand against tyranny, greed and carelessness , to bring the power back to the people , is the best thing that had ever happened in this part of the world..even though this might have long-lasting effects on the long run..
As Jyrkkä Jätkä's quotation says:
"Because we don't think about future generations, they will never forget us.” - Henrik Tikkanen
Not by wrath does one kill but by laughter. Come, let us kill the spirit of gravity! -Friedrich Nietzsche.
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Movements from the 1960s to Occupy Wall StreetYou, who are on the road must have a code that you can live by. And so become yourself because the past is just a good bye. Teach your children well, their father's hell did slowly go by, And feed them on your dreams, the one they picked, the one you're known by. Don't you ever ask them why, if they told you you would cry, So just look at them and sigh and know they love you. And you, of the tender years can't know the fears that your elders grew by, And so please help them with your years, they seek the truth before they can die. Teach your parents well, their children's hell will slowly go by, And feed them on your dreams, the one they picked, the one you're known by. Don't you ever ask them why, if they told you, you would cry, So just look at them and sigh and know they love you. Graham Nash wrote this. The lyrics deal with the often difficult relationship he had with his father, who spent time in prison.
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I hear we have our first fatality.
Off to Singapore for a spell!
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abcxyz wrote:What do you think of the 'Occupy' movements that are rapidly spreading all over US and Europe and catching up in South Africa and Asia? Is it happening in your home city/town/country? Do you support it? Will you join it? Bankers get richer and poors get poorer
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GabhSigenod wrote:I hear we have our first fatality. Actually it was a suicide and I don't think that can be linked to the movement, particularly as it was done alone, in a tent, not as a public display as was the street vendor in Tunisia. I support this movement, I think the division of wealth in this nation is ludicrous, and just to be clear, I think the Constitution is one of the best frameworks for a government yet proposed. Unrestrained capitalism will however, destroy a democracy.
Question authority, before it questions you. How do you know, that you know, what you know?
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