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offroad
Posted: Saturday, October 29, 2011 7:17:25 PM

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Dear teachers...

What's the difference between these two sentences?

He had other people do his dirty work.
He had other people to do his dirty work.


And these two?

I got her hose all the porch off.
I got her to clean all the bathrooms.


Many thanks
thar
Posted: Saturday, October 29, 2011 7:38:21 PM

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the difference is the verb and phrasal verb
to have = to possess

to have someone do something - someone follows your command to fulfil a task

so
he had other people do...
=he ordered, they did it

the mafia boss had a hitman kill his wife
the teacher had the pupils take the test.

he had [other people to do something]
= he possessed staff (or time, or anything) who could do it, if he wanted

the mafia boss had many gangsters
the mafia boss had many gangsters who worked for him
the mafia boss had many gangsters to do his dirty work.
the pupils had two hours to take the test.

does that make sense?

second part - got also has two meanings, but only one would work in your sentence

I got her hose all the porch off.NOT A SENTENCE

I got her to clean all the bathrooms.


I got = I received, or obtained
I got a surprise
I got her a present

I got someone to do something
=I asked or persuaded or forced someone to do something
I got her to hose down the porch.
I got her to clean all the bathrooms

this means the same as:
I had her hose down the porch
I had her clean the bathrooms
=(the phrasal 'to have someone do something')
Briton
Posted: Saturday, October 29, 2011 8:26:22 PM

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Not wishing to start anything here, I'd just like to point out that 'to have someone do something' (e.g. "the mafia boss had a hitman kill his wife") is rarely said in Britain.

It's more American.

Nothing wrong with that.

Just saying. :-)
Drag0nspeaker
Posted: Saturday, October 29, 2011 8:39:28 PM

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Location: Livingston, Scotland, United Kingdom
Briton wrote:
Not wishing to start anything here, I'd just like to point out that 'to have someone do something' (e.g. "the mafia boss had a hitman kill his wife") is rarely said in Britain.


Hmm Think - I use it - but then I don't always talk correct. Whistle

But it is in the English (as opposed to American) dictionary.

Have: verb
...
13. to cause, compel, or require to (be, do, or be done)


Wyrd bið ful aræd - bull!
Gram Gram
Posted: Saturday, October 29, 2011 11:29:50 PM
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Location: United States, WA
To offroad: Point 1: the use of an infinitive "to do", "to clean" etc. can become confusing because an infinitive is not a vowel, until it is conjugated. Example: the infinitive "to do" breaks down into: present tense=I do, you do, he/she/it does, we do, they do. Past tense: I did, you did, he/she/it did, we did, they did. I'm not going to go through all the tenses such as future and past perfect tenses (the latter is a problem for too many people unfortunately).
Point 2: the word "to" is also a preposition when not" being used as a part of an infinitive. Example: I am going to the store.

Sentences 1 and 2:
"He had other people do his dirty work. (Translation indicates that the work has been completed and other people completed the task of ; ""He had" meets the requirement of being a sentence although it is unclear what "he had." This is why we add to our sentences by using direct objects, indirect objects, etc.
"He had other people to do his dirty work." This sentence is confusing by itself because it does not clearly describe when the people did or would do his dirty work.
In sentence 1: The use of the verb "had" can be interchanged with he "made" others do his dirty work. Thus it is a clear use of the vowel form of "to have.:
Sentence 2: He had refers more to "possession" because as stated above, the "when" is unclear,

Point 3: if it doesn"t sound right, it usually is not unless the person has great difficuly with syntax (grammar) and semantics (word choice or work use)

Sentence 3: "He got her hose all the porch off." "Had' is the main verb; hose is not the main verb but rather only part of an infinitive. Thus it requires the word "to" to be placed before "hose" to make it a complete infinitive. Finally, it doesn't sound right.
Sentence 4: "I got her to clean all the bathrooms." The implied meaning is that "he convinced" her to clean all the bathrooms.

Personally I do not like the use of the word "got" if another word can be used instead as it, in my opinion, causes the phrase to be less formal, and in the lower colloquial to high slovenly speech.
jmacann
Posted: Sunday, October 30, 2011 5:28:33 AM
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Transformation of the causative use of the verb "to have"; not widely in use.
Klaas V
Posted: Sunday, October 30, 2011 5:40:46 AM

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Every work is dirty since W*rk is a Four letter word j/k

With maybe the exception of the unasked there just isn't such thing available as a dumb question - Z4us
Drag0nspeaker
Posted: Sunday, October 30, 2011 6:23:42 AM

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Location: Livingston, Scotland, United Kingdom
"Every work is dirty since W*rk is a Four letter word j/k"

Ah - but 'rest' is a four-letter-word too! Whistle

Wyrd bið ful aræd - bull!
Julya
Posted: Saturday, November 5, 2011 6:07:53 PM
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He has other people doing the dirty work. (no mention it is his dirty work)
He had other people to do his dirty work.
Both of them mean the same.
I got (get) somebody TO do something.
jmacann
Posted: Saturday, November 5, 2011 6:21:26 PM
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Location: Spain
"He had his dirty job done by other people"
"You got her to clean all the bathrooms"
FounDit
Posted: Saturday, November 5, 2011 7:19:41 PM

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Gram Gram wrote:


Personally I do not like the use of the word "got" if another word can be used instead as it, in my opinion, causes the phrase to be less formal, and in the lower colloquial to high slovenly speech.



Wow. I feel more educated just reading Gram Gram's post.

I have heard of various levels of languages such as: low, middle, and high Greek, English and German, etc.

Now, I learn we apparently have low, middle and high colloquial to low, middle and high slovenly. The things I've learned on this site!

It does, however, make me wonder where the demarcation lines are for these levels.

I reckon hits tha diffrence tween Texas rednick, cajun backwoods, Mississippi podunk, and hillbilly twang. Shore wud luv to know!

(just having fun with the idea)



We should look to the past to learn from it, not destroy our future because of it — FounDit
leonAzul
Posted: Monday, November 7, 2011 4:50:41 AM

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Joined: 8/11/2011
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Location: Miami, Florida, United States
Julya wrote:
He has other people doing the dirty work. (no mention it is his dirty work)
He had other people to do his dirty work.
Both of them mean the same.
I got (get) somebody TO do something.

Perhaps it wasn't clear, but they do not mean exactly the same thing.

"He has other people doing the dirty work" means that other people are actually doing the work for him as a matter of their job description.

"He had other people to do his dirty work" means that there were other people at his disposal to do such work.

With "I got (get) somebody TO do something" there is the additional sense of needing to convince somebody to do it, whether by argument, negotiation, or trickery.

"Make it go away, Mrs Whatsit," he whispered. "Make it go away. It's evil."
Julya
Posted: Monday, November 7, 2011 5:58:56 AM
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leonAzul wrote:

Not quite understand your specification..
The sentence "He has other people doing the dirty work." doesn't say that the dirty work was his personal duty. You can write (add) something else, but it doesn't change the essence of question.
Julya
Posted: Monday, November 7, 2011 6:02:56 AM
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offroad wrote:


Every second sentence is correct.
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