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I believe in God and know that He is forgiving. But this disturbing piece of news somehow makes me think about His power(or lack of it for that matter). http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/world/south-asia/Gangraped-Nepal-nun-now-faces-expulsion-from-nunnery/articleshow/9183371.cmsIs He really a forgiving God or is it just His inability to express Himself that lets people twist religious principles according to their comfort? Does He speak what he wishes us to do? In whose ears does He whisper his decisions and judgments? How do the tyrants of religion know what is God's point of view when they pass a decision about such cases? If only God could speak, would he let a woman suffer twice for someone else's sin? Lord Buddha converted prostitutes to nuns. I have always thought of Buddhism to be one of the most modern and most accommodating religions. This particular case is beyond my comprehension. Would someone be kind to please explain why the nun should be shunned from the nunnery?
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Its not about God's words. Its about interpretation according to our choice, selfishness and suitability, IMO. Some questions will always remain unanswered. Or some may justify their answers by relating to deeds from past life. Questions like why this happened, why I was the victim, what wrong I had done, can this be reversed....
The debaters may say
1. she was punished because of her wrong deeds in past life. She should pay.
2. this is destiny.
3. God is testing her patience and faith. The ordeal will come to an end later, if she still keeps her faith alive.
4. everyone is a puppet in God's hands. He controls everything.
I feel sorry for the nun.
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**Edit: This is an example of hypocrisy, IMO. Buddha was married and was a father himself. In fact, his foster mother was the first woman to be accpeted as nun in the Sangha.
We are responsible for what we are, and whatever we wish ourselves to be, we have the power to make ourselves. ~ Swami Vivekanand
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srirr wrote:
The debaters may say
1. she was punished because of her wrong deeds in past life. She should pay.
2. this is destiny.
3. God is testing her patience and faith. The ordeal will come to an end later, if she still keeps her faith alive.
4. everyone is a puppet in God's hands. He controls everything.
I feel sorry for the nun. [I agree - and maybe for those who ejected her? - Just a thought]
**Edit: This is an example of hypocrisy, IMO. Buddha was married and was a father himself. In fact, his foster mother was the first woman to be accpeted as nun in the Sangha.
As some folk on here love to have a bash at religion in general, this is certainly strength to their arm. I am with you srirr as far as feeling for the nun. Out of interest, the OP talks about "god" - does the buddhist faith actually acknowledge a god? I thought it was a bit agnostic on that point? I thought, somewhat ignorantly I guess, that the buddha would have taken the line that asking a question to which there is no certain answer, would have been striving, leading to suffering, and thus not a path to be pursued. Be interested in an answer (from anybody.).
"The voice of the majority is no proof of justice." - Schiller
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As far as I have read about Buddha, I learnt that initially (before enlightenment) he tried striving and suffering, but later he understood that eschewing everything is not the correct way. He advocated the middle path and preached to maintain distance from earthly pleasures. This does not mean abnegating food or cloth.
We are responsible for what we are, and whatever we wish ourselves to be, we have the power to make ourselves. ~ Swami Vivekanand
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Intelfam: does the buddhist faith actually acknowledge a god? Yes, there are actually two wings among Buddhism: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God_in_BuddhismLord Gautama Buddha was born as Prince Siddhartha and is believed to be the ninth incarnation (avatar) of Lord Vishnu, the creator God of Hindu Trinity. Therefore, to us Hindus, Lord Buddha is as holy as any other avatars like Lord Rama and Lord Krishna. Pardon my ignorance about whether Buddhism acknowledges a God or not. If it does not acknowledge a God, and attainment of nirvana is its sole aim, then it makes the nun's expulsion even more absurd! I wanted a discussion about how humans pass their own judgments for others in the name of religion or God and end up damaging the faith, about how religion is reduced to rituals rather than being the source of moral values and fulfilment of the soul!(God = The supreme power or creator, not the one who is followed as a deity by any particular religion ). No irreverence to any religion is intended.
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This is not a case of whether God is a deaf mute. This a case of religion loosing touch with reality. QUOTE:
While condemning the attack and deploring the communist government's ignorance of a "rarest of rare" crime in Nepal, the birthplace of the Buddha, 15 Buddhist organisations said that as a result, she had lost "her religion" and could be no longer regarded as fit to be a nun. 'Lost her religion', unbelievable, this Nun lost every thing but her religion, and the self righteous, whose sins have not been so public or traumatic, sit in judgement on her?? I think, no, I know that they need to go back to what their faith is all about! "Such a thing never happened in the Buddha's lifetime," said Norbu Sherpa, an official of Nepal Buddhist Federation. "So he did not leave instructions about how to deal with the situation. Buddhists all over the world adhere to what he had laid down: that a person can no longer be considered ordained in case of having a physical relationship. It's applicable to both men and women."Sheesh! They didn't have buses, aeroplanes, etc. then, so Buddha left no instruction on whether these modern services should be used, which ones, or how, but that doesn't stop the Dali Lama from flying around the world. I think he is a remarkable person and would like to hear his opinion on this,  As for the 15 Buddhist organisations, this is bigotry in its worst form, man playing God.
RULES ARE FOR THE OBEYENCE OF FOOLS AND FOR THE GUIDENCE OF WISE MEN
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Good observations Ray.  Such a thing never happened in the Buddha's lifetimeWhat? Is this a court proceeding that they want a precedent? I hope my God does not mind my calling Him Deaf-Mute! If that is not the case, He is definitely bound and gagged by these modern lords of religions.
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I guess OP is not referring to existence of God in Buddhism. By "deaf and mute God", she probably means that the super power, whom we worship in one or the other form, is just watching the whole thing silently.
Who should decide and dictate? The supreme power of our faith or the mortal humans who falsely preach practices?
We are responsible for what we are, and whatever we wish ourselves to be, we have the power to make ourselves. ~ Swami Vivekanand
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Whatever happens...
"GOD IS GOOD, ALL THE TIME."
"ALL THE TIME, GOD IS GOOD."
Ang hindi magmahal sa sariling wika ay higit pa sa hayop at malansang isda. - Dr. J.P Rizal
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The last good gods lived on Olympus.
Brain-washing starts in the cradle. - Arthur Koestler
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Gunjika wrote:Intelfam: does the buddhist faith actually acknowledge a god? Yes, there are actually two wings among Buddhism: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God_in_BuddhismLord Gautama Buddha was born as Prince Siddhartha and is believed to be the ninth incarnation (avatar) of Lord Vishnu, the creator God of Hindu Trinity. Therefore, to us Hindus, Lord Buddha is as holy as any other avatars like Lord Rama and Lord Krishna. Pardon my ignorance about whether Buddhism acknowledges a God or not. If it does not acknowledge a God, and attainment of nirvana is its sole aim, then it makes the nun's expulsion even more absurd! I wanted a discussion about how humans pass their own judgments for others in the name of religion or God and end up damaging the faith, about how religion is reduced to rituals rather than being the source of moral values and fulfilment of the soul!(God = The supreme power or creator, not the one who is followed as a deity by any particular religion ). No irreverence to any religion is intended. Hi Gunjika - yeah, sorry for a near hijack of the thread to satisfy my own curiosity.  . My question was, as you say, not related to the thrust of what you were seeking. My reaction to the actual events is the same as Ray41 - right down to commas and fullstops. As far as what you were seeking "I wanted a discussion about how...." I think your choice of words says where you stand. It appears obvious that people, trying to interpret what their god(s) want, are going to get it wrong, especially when they try to say what others must do. To me humans appear like desktop calculators trying to perform the task of a quad-core computer. I like the Buddha's saying that we should not see him as a teacher, rather like the Zen phrase "If you see the buddha, kill him". I take that to mean that we should not look to founders of religion as somehow making rules and laws for us to follow slavishly. It is rather a case of gaining the buddha-mind.
"The voice of the majority is no proof of justice." - Schiller
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