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Where did you learn Latin? Options
SandraM
Posted: Tuesday, April 28, 2009 6:32:39 AM
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Joined: 3/11/2009
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Hey you, Latin reading users!
I am curious to know where and how you learnt Latin.
I learnt in college and some of my friends studied it in high school (in France it is possible in almost all high schools).
What about you?
elisa
Posted: Tuesday, April 28, 2009 8:46:59 AM

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Location: Venice
Hi Sandra!

It's me (as usual)!:-))

I learnt Latin (and Greek) during my high school.

In Italy, high school takes the age from 14 to 19 years old, but you have to study Latin only if you choose the classic address (called "Classic Lyceum", here Greek is mandatory too) or the scientific address or the teacher-training school.

I chose the Classic Lyceum, thus I studied Latin language and literature but also Greek language and literature.
In the first 2 years you usually concentrate on Latin and Greek grammar, then on the other 3 years you focus mainly on literature (prose and poetry).
However, you are required to translate texts from Latin and Greek to Italian for all the 5 years.

When I had the examinations at the end of the 5 years, it included a written test on Latin or Greek (a translation) and an oral test on the other language (to illustrate, in my case I had the written test for Latin and the oral test for Greek).

*ELISA*
SandraM
Posted: Wednesday, April 29, 2009 6:31:26 AM
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Hi Elisa!
In France everyone can study Latin in high scool from the age of 12 and Greek from 14 (it used to be both from 13 and that's what I did with Greek). I think it's a very good thing that any child who wants to discover the Roman and Greek worlds can do just that. It's a great asset in the French system, IMO, but of course, it's threatened because it isn't cheap.
You have another opportunity to begin studying Latin and/or ancient Greek from 15 to 18 year old if you have opted for the "lycée général", the high school that allows you to go to university if you want.
I then went to a literature and languages "classe préparatoire aux grandes écoles", a French only sort of college where you prepare for a competitive examination to enter in a "grande école". There I went on with my Greek studies and started to study Latin. And then, university.
elisa
Posted: Thursday, April 30, 2009 5:10:05 AM

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Location: Venice
Hi Sandra!

In Italy the school system that I attended (there is a reform almost every 2 years, so I'm not updated!d'oh! ) didn't allows any optional subject in elementary, middle and high schools (with the exception of Religions class).

In the University, however, you have both mandatory and optional subjects. If you choose to attend humanities degree you have more possibilities of choosing your subjects than in scientific degrees.

It is nice to know that in France a student can choose to have or not to have Latin classes, but I think that such a system wouldn't work in Italy because probably just 1% of students would choose Latin or Greek!!Brick wall

These 2 languages are studied in Italy because are mandatory, but they represent the toughest subjects to study of all. Just think that Classic Lyceum -the only school where you are required to study both languages- is considered the most difficult high school for this reason!:-O

Moreover, as I explained in other posts, these languages are perceived as not "worthy" of study. In fact, young people prefer to concentrate on modern languages than on ancient ones.

*ELISA*
SandraM
Posted: Thursday, April 30, 2009 6:04:04 AM
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elisa wrote:

It is nice to know that in France a student can choose to have or not to have Latin classes, but I think that such a system wouldn't work in Italy because probably just 1% of students would choose Latin or Greek!!Brick wall

Unfortunately, there aren't a lot of pupils choosing Latin and less again Greek in middle and high school in France either. But we (Latin teachers) have been hearing that Latin in secondary education was dead or dying for 20 years or more now (they used to say it when I was in middle school) and it still isn't true. So, let's not lose heart.
s3callyx
Posted: Friday, May 01, 2009 9:38:49 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 4/27/2009
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Location: Greece
Hello guys!
I'm from Greece and of course I speak greek. Would you like to speak greek also to communicate? This would help both of us. You can learn more that way and you'll help me also since I'm not good with english.

SandraM
Posted: Saturday, May 02, 2009 7:07:50 AM
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Joined: 3/11/2009
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Hello s3callyx,
the Greek we were talking about here is ancient Greek. There are modern Greek forums too (I just saw from your post there that you found them).
By the way, did you study ancient Greek at school in Greece (I think it is mandatory)? And did you study Latin?
s3callyx
Posted: Monday, May 04, 2009 7:34:14 PM

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Joined: 4/27/2009
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Location: Greece
Hello Sandra. Thanks for answering. Allow me to introduce myself. I'm a girl and I live in Greece. My name is Evi (pronounced: Evee, the acecnt at "E").

I'll begin with the easiest question. No, I'm not studying latin. Actually no one does. Latin is unknown to greeks. Of course we know some Roman history, but that's all. Also we MAYBE know (depends from the student) if an english word is actually latin but that's it. The end....

We only learn english at school. We also go to private schools to learn better english (called "frontistiria"*) since public school lessons are terrible. If someone want's to learn some other language goes to "frontistiria" as well.

Frontistiria have a list of languages for someone to learn. The most common ones are the European ones. (German, Spanish, e.t.c)

* =
1) "Frontistiria" pronounced "fronteesteereea" and the accent goes at "sti"
2) From the verb "frontizo" (pronounced "fronteezo).
3) Frontizo from the ancient "frontis"
4) "Frontis" the "i" pronounced as "ee"
4) And the accent goes also to "i"
5) Means "I care".
6) An example: Any mother "frontizei" (cares) about her child
7) "Frontizei" = I, care (frontizo), ...bla,....bla,.... she cares (frontizei)
8) "Ei" is the modern way of "makron" eeta (η)
9) "Makron" means when you say in one moment two characters (like: ou). Sorry I don't know the english translation of "makron".


Now, let's go to the other question. The difficult one: did you study ancient Greek at school in Greece (I think it is mandatory)?

Well.... that's a long story. You should know that a good education program means a very good government plan for the youth. Which means some political influence to schools. You should also know that when a language belongs to a country which is a very good geographical place like Greece (since Greece can communicate with almost the half countries of the world and even a whole bunch of continents to be exact... [Africa, Asia, Europe]) this "political influence" becomes very dangerous. If a nation has all these tremendous possibilities, over communication and trade, then, it has a great power in it's hands. That, IF of course knows how to use it. Brain, knowledge ideas, are keys to business and business equals with money. Money which of course no one wants to give.

So to avoid the procedure to give money, meaning business, meaning knowledge, meaning education, a very good plan of extermination occurred in our schools the last 30 years by those who have these interests. 9/10 percent of those guys are Masons.

Here is some info to understand better: in my country are NOT allowed for someone who has not greek education to become a political. And according to the constitution "greek education" means beliefs in our religion (Greek Orthodox church) as No1 and greek ideas based on our ancient philosophy and knowledge as the rest. Now you understand why I referred to Masons. Masons can't have greek education of course since are foreigners. But they managed to invade in our democracy and become parts of political status. So the last 30 years this rule is invisible!

Henry Kissinger at an 1993 interview said that "greeks are very powerful people. If we want to win them we must hit them, in their language, and in their religion". And that's what they did....

First step was to throw away the language. Almost 1/3 percent of greek words and rules are unknown to my generation (I'm 33). Year by year they cut one by one every little thing that makes a greek GREEK! The language, the religion, any social mores e.t.c....

The second step was to fill the gap with something new: english. English words, english ideas, everything english. Of course some of us who love Greece, we still try to learn what we miss. I'm very proud to be one of those people. So, no I don't know ancient greek, but I'm one step ahead of others my age.

The third step was to declare their innocence. They fixed a rule which says that YES: ancient greek is mandatory BUT from the first year at high school. And guess what: english are mandatory also, BUT from the 4rth grade!! Not only greeks learn only the 1/3 percent of their language, not only english is mandatory only 4 years after a child begins school which of course no one can learn a language so fast, especially greek which is considered a difficult language, but no one can say that "we don't learn ancient greek" since ancient greek is mandatory. You must say that their plan is a very good plan.

Anyway... I said too much. You probably bored... Sorry. But when I realized that you 're French I thought you 'll understand since you language is a hard language also. As more difficult something is, so much goes your pride. You realize even more than anyone else what it means for a greek to lose it's pride since you also learn greek...

As far as it concerns me, I believe that I'll understand very well if you speak to me in ancient greek. And even if I don't, at least I'll try more. So please speak ancient greek to me. I'd like to!

Oh... I just remember something... When you say "ancient".... how old "ancient"? Greece has many history periods. What kind of greek do you know? For example "katharevousa"*?

* =
1) Pronounced as you hear it: katharevousa
2) Katharevousa's "e" pronounced like "else"
3) Means "the clear language" because we cleared it from the Turkish words after our revolution (1821)

Of course "katharevousa" is not considered as an "ancient" greek. (For you at least... for us who don't know that 2+2 = 4 is really old). I just said it as an example....

Again sorry for the big post...
elisa
Posted: Friday, May 08, 2009 6:02:48 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 3/12/2009
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Neurons: 1,418
Location: Venice
Hi s3callyx!

It has been interesting to read your post!

I didn't imagine that in Greece students meet so many difficulties to study the ancient version of their motherlanguage!

In Italy we study for so many years our ancient literature (thus also our ancient language) that I supposed you did the same!
As you can read, in Italy we have the chance to study Greek literature and language for 5 years, thus it sounds incredible for me that in Greece the situation is so different!
Greek language helped me A LOT in order to improve my understanding of the deep meanings of Italian terms!

Regarding the historic periods, I can say that when we analyze literary texts we get in contact with many of them.
We concentrate mainly on the origins with Omero and Esiodo, on the classical period and on the Hellenistic and Roman age ones (this last one represents the link with Latin authors).

Are you currently trying to learn ancient Greek?
How do you think you can pursue this purpose in your Country?

Ciao!


*ELISA*
s3callyx
Posted: Sunday, May 17, 2009 2:37:09 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 4/27/2009
Posts: 46
Neurons: 138
Location: Greece
Hello Elisa.
Well, now you know the truth. If you ever visit Greece, ask "how good you education is"? You'll hear the same negative feelings about our education, as I told you. I'm envy of you! You can learn your language for free!!

I wasn't surprised when you told me, that Greek helped you a lot. All European languages except their vocabulary, also have AT LEAST a 50% Latin vocabulary as well and at least a near 40% of latin words are greek ones. They say that If you learn Greek, Latin and one Asian language is like if you know ALL the languages of the world. And I believe that!

Now, about the history periods. First of all I want to ask you something. You spelled "Omero" and "Esiodo" instead of "Homer" and "Hesiod" like all the rest english speakers do. Why? Is this the way you call them?

We also learn some literature of our ancient ancestors, but... guess what: In MODERN greek. And it's not only that. We actually (the students) hate literature. Homer's Odyssey and Illiad for example is a very fat and short book which looks awfully boring. No one want's to learn literature. Any greek student will speak with negative feelings about Homer (or the rest of our philosophers)

As you realize no one can really be happy about ancient greek. And believe it or not I'm actually one of them even if I like them. I know this is a little be confusing. See, as much as I learn, so much I love them. But from the other hand I face them as a foreign language (well, it is to me) which I'm very lazy to learn...

You can learn ancient greek if you want but in some special places. Your teacher, usually a person older than 50 years old, (meaning older than the current generation since the younger ones know nothing) must be someone which loves and know them. But this teacher would be a friend or something similar. To learn at school is very difficult. Only some schools which respect tradition are teaching ancient greek. Them and the Greek Orthodox church. So to pursue the purpose of learning ancient greek in Greece is unacceptable in people's mind so it's very difficult also.
elisa
Posted: Saturday, May 23, 2009 6:11:59 AM

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Joined: 3/12/2009
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Location: Venice
Hi s3callyx!

I wrote Omero and Esiodo because it's the way we write those names in Italy.
I forgot that I was writing in English and just referred to those authors in Italian!Silenced

In Italy we use "Italianized" names for Latin and Greek authors, although we study their works in the original language in Classic Lyceum.

Well, I was complaining about the condition of Latin and ancient Greek in Italy (students are usually not attracted by these languages), but the conditions in Greece are really worse!d'oh!

I just hope that the study of this precious legacy will not be erased from the school programs because many people simply don't understand it's utility!!



*ELISA*
s3callyx
Posted: Saturday, May 30, 2009 4:37:39 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 4/27/2009
Posts: 46
Neurons: 138
Location: Greece
elisa wrote:
Hi s3callyx!
I wrote Omero and Esiodo because it's the way we write those names in Italy.
I forgot that I was writing in English and just referred to those authors in Italian!Silenced


Don't worry. I just asked to be sure if this was the Italian way (accent) of their names.

Quote:
Well, I was complaining about the condition of Latin and ancient Greek in Italy (students are usually not attracted by these languages), but the conditions in Greece are really worse!d'oh!


:( :( :( :(

Quote:
I just hope that the study of this precious legacy will not be erased from the school programs because many people simply don't understand it's utility!!


As long as money rules, neither education or knowledge will rule. Unfortunately...
Believe it or not, foreigners know better greek than greeks. Germans for example... As long as other countries keep greek language as a treasure, greek will survive.
Matija
Posted: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 8:42:04 PM
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Joined: 6/21/2011
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Location: Croatia
Hi friends. In Croatia Latin is mandatory in all highscools for first 2 years (age 14-15) 2 hours every week. In classical lyceum Latin and Greek (both!) are mandatory for all 4 years for all students - 3 hours of Latin, and 3 hours of Greek every week, four years (age 14-18). Latin is also mandatory in all medical schools, veterinarian schools, economy schools and agricultural schools for first 2 years, 2 hours every week (like in highscools). Basicaly speaking, Latin is mandatory for almost 80 percent of all pupils in Croatia. Latin is also mandatory for greatest part of university studies, such as: Medicine, Law, Veterinarian studies and almost all humanistic and language studies, history, geography, philosophy, music etc. Usually, if you had Latin during your highschool education, you are liberated of listening and giving Latin exam in university studies. But if you never learned Latin before university, you must listen Latin for at least 1 year and pass the exam. Othervise, you can NOT get university diploma for English, German, Croatian, Law, Medicine, Art, History, Geography, Philosophy etc. At university, same as Latin, Greek is mandatory to studies like Philosophy, Archeology and some others. This is the way it should be everywhere in the world, because it's the only right way. To become a true scientist of almost enything, you NEED Latin and Greek because they are alpha and omega of all science. So, whose my English good in this text? I never larned English at scool, or university, but I speak Latin and Greek fluently. Thanks to them, I speak and write 10 languages at least.
SandraM
Posted: Thursday, June 23, 2011 2:41:24 PM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 3/11/2009
Posts: 399
Neurons: 1,454
Hi Matija,
Welcome aboard the Latin forum.
What you describe about the Croatian school system sounds like a dream! Nice to see that one country in the world at least recognises the importance of the classics.
Matija
Posted: Friday, June 24, 2011 5:52:38 PM
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Joined: 6/21/2011
Posts: 13
Neurons: 39
Location: Croatia
Hi, Sandra! Few years ago University of Zagreb, our capital city, ordered a scientific elaborate about benefits of learning classic languages, and results where fascinating: pupils comming from classical lyceums where the best in reception ranks in biggest part of university studies (that means that they where best in written exams when fighting with others to enter university studies for free); they where best in philosophical studies (including all languages and all humanistic studies), medicine, law etc. In some natural sciences studies, like electrotechnical studies and others, where they where not the best when entering studies, untill the end of second year of their studies, they become average best students. So, conclusion of that: classical lyceums are like educational jewls in the school system, and they should be kept and protected from the state. During the comunism in ex Yugoslavia, classical lyceums where ejected from the system as "aristocratic schools". Only one of them survived in capital city of Zagreb in Croatia. After deposing of comunism and collapse of state of Yugoslavia, Croatia started fast classical renaisance, bringing latin back as mandatory in all higschools and number of classical lyceums grew up to 15 today (that is much, because Croatia is small, with only 4 million people). From classical lyceums, 1 is private (each student pays schoolarship), 2 of them are state lyceums, 12 of them are catholic classical lyceums under stete protection (all costs are covered by the state budget). All of them are recognized by the law and protected with the agreement of central state and the Pope, which is officially confirmed again few weeks ago.
Matija
Posted: Friday, June 24, 2011 5:58:47 PM
Rank: Newbie

Joined: 6/21/2011
Posts: 13
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Location: Croatia
What abot the situation in UK? I have heard that Great Brittany is bringing latin as mandatory in some highschools as mandatory for one experiment? Is this true?
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