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'More than 70 percent were men' (Subject-Verb Agreement with numbers as subjects) Options
A cooperator
Posted: Saturday, March 30, 2019 9:33:56 PM

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Hi Everyone!
I am skiing why the verb doesn't agree with the subject:
A study found in a 7-year period, 259 people worldwide died while taking selfies. More than 70 percent were men, who researchers said took more risks to get a dramatic shot.

Here is the verb a plural since the subject "abusers" is a plural. So, it agrees with the subject:
Over 85 percent of abusers are men, and domestic abuse happens only in intimate, interdependent, long-term relationships, in other words, in families, the last place we would want or expect to find violence, which is one reason domestic abuse is so confusing.

Whoever doesn't own what he promises to those who do not deserve must not promise it.
thar
Posted: Saturday, March 30, 2019 11:32:53 PM

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What is your question? They are both plural. I am confused.


Logically, how many of these were men?
70% of 259 is more than one.


The logic of understanding who you are talking about is more important than the single word 'percent'.


palapaguy
Posted: Saturday, March 30, 2019 11:49:45 PM

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A cooperator wrote:
Hi Everyone!
I am skiing why the verb doesn't agree with the subject:
A study found in a 7-year period, 259 people worldwide died while taking selfies. More than 70 percent were men, who researchers said took more risks to get a dramatic shot.

Here is the verb a plural since the subject "abusers" is a plural. So, it agrees with the subject:
Over 85 percent of abusers are men, and domestic abuse happens only in intimate, interdependent, long-term relationships, in other words, in families, the last place we would want or expect to find violence, which is one reason domestic abuse is so confusing.


Coop, you continue to post lofty, esoteric principles of English grammar using broken English. Look into hiring a tutor.
Audiendus
Posted: Sunday, March 31, 2019 12:06:48 AM
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"Percent" was originally (and often still is) written "per cent", which is short for the Latin "per centum", meaning "per hundred".
BobShilling
Posted: Sunday, March 31, 2019 1:25:27 AM
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Common sense (to us!) often wins out in subject-verb agreement. The following are all natural in BrE:

Over 85 per cent of abusers are men.
The crowd are unhappy.A number a number are booing.
England are playing India tomorrow.
Twenty miles is a long way.
Fish and chips is my favourite meal.
More than one person is unhappy about this.
Five and five is ten.
The twins blew their noses at the same time.



thar
Posted: Sunday, March 31, 2019 1:59:40 AM

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If it were an uncountable amount, it would be singular. But this example is countable people.


eg
The land was flooded.
Much of the land was flooded.
70% was flooded.


The houses were flooded.
Many of the houses were flooded.
70% were flooded.


The meaning of the sentence is more important than the use of one particular word.
Jyrkkä Jätkä
Posted: Sunday, March 31, 2019 4:11:55 AM

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I'm wondering what the skiers, selfie-takes, and abusers have in common. This is 100% mystery.


In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.
A cooperator
Posted: Sunday, March 31, 2019 7:24:17 AM

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Thank you, all of you very much,
You agree with me that the subject is the underlined:
In the first, "More than 70 percent were men, who researchers said took more risks to get a dramatic shot."
In the second,
"Over 85 percent of abusers are men, and domestic...."

So, my question is: in the first, the verb looks not to agree with its subject.
If it agreed with its subject, it would have been written: "More than 70 percent of 259 people were men, who researchers..."




Whoever doesn't own what he promises to those who do not deserve must not promise it.
BobShilling
Posted: Sunday, March 31, 2019 7:33:09 AM
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Quote:
A study found in a 7-year period, 259 people worldwide died while taking selfies. More than 70 percent were men, who researchers said took more risks to get a dramatic shot.


We understand the '70 percent' to mean '70 percent of the 259 people worldwide who died while taking selfies'. We don't need to spell out the obvious.Thar did point this out in his last post.
thar
Posted: Sunday, March 31, 2019 8:57:46 AM

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A cooperator wrote:
Thank you, all of you very much,
You agree with me that the subject is the underlined:
In the first, "More than 70 percent were men, who researchers said took more risks to get a dramatic shot."
In the second,
"Over 85 percent of abusers are men, and domestic...."

So, my question is: in the first, the verb looks not to agree with its subject.
If it agreed with its subject, it would have been written: "More than 70 percent of 259 people were men, who researchers..."




|You need to treat the whole sentence together, not each word in isolation. The meaning is there. The sentence is there to express that idea. Remember, language is just how people communicate, and grammar is how people put it together in a common way. Grammar rules describe how people use language. People think and communicate in ideas, not in single words.
Audiendus
Posted: Sunday, March 31, 2019 10:11:36 AM
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A cooperator wrote:
If it agreed with its subject, it would have been written: "More than 70 percent of 259 people were men, who researchers..."

The subject in the above sentence is not 259 people, but More than 70 percent of 259 people. The part of the subject that should agree with the verb is: More than 70 percent. We could say:

Of 259 people, more than 70 percent were men (subject underlined).

Since "70 percent" means "70 out of a hundred", we could say:

Of 259 people, more than 70 out of a hundred were men.

You can see that "were" agrees with "more than 70 out of a hundred" in the above sentence.
A cooperator
Posted: Sunday, March 31, 2019 7:09:16 PM

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Audiendus wrote:
A cooperator wrote:
If it agreed with its subject, it would have been written: "More than 70 percent of 259 people were men, who researchers..."

The subject in the above sentence is not 259 people, but More than 70 percent of 259 people. The part of the subject that should agree with the verb is: More than 70 percent. We could say:

Of 259 people, more than 70 percent were men (subject underlined).



Thanks a lot, Audiendus, along with Thar,
Then, the subject in the sentence "Over 85 percent of abusers are men, and domestic...." is also not 'abusers', but Over 85 percent of abusers. The part of the subject that should agree with the verb is: Over 85 percent. We could say:

Of abusers, over 85 percent are men, and domestic....
Of abusers, over 85 out of a hundred are men, and domestic....





Audiendus wrote:

Since "70 percent" means "70 out of a hundred", we could say:

Of 259 people, more than 70 out of a hundred were men.

You can see that "were" agrees with "more than 70 out of a hundred" in the above sentence.


Firstly, AFAIK, 'one out of three' means '1/3' or 'a third' as in "one out of three consumers globally say they are spending more money today on beauty and health care products.". So, '70 out of a hundred' can also mean '70/100'.
So, could we say:
Of 259 people, more than 70/100 were men.
More than 70/100 of 259 people were men.

Secondly, in the sentence "one out of three("a third", "1/3" of ) consumers globally say they are spending more money today on beauty and health care products....", I think the part of the subject that should agree with the verb is: 'one out of three'('1/3'). 'one of each three consumers' is a singular. So, why does 'say' not end with '-s' to agree with the part of subject?



Thirdly, "85 percent" means "85 out of a hundred", and "70 percent" means "70 out of a hundred". In the sentence "one out of three consumers globally say...", there is no preposition 'of' followed the part of subject that should agree with the verb. So, I think that the preposition 'of' shouldn't also follow the part of subject that should agree with the verb in both "Over 85 out of a hundred of abusers are men,.." and "More than 70 out of a hundred of 259 people[/u] were men."

Finally, is it always the first part of a subject that should agree with a verb?
The keys of the room are needed to be oiled.





Whoever doesn't own what he promises to those who do not deserve must not promise it.
Audiendus
Posted: Sunday, March 31, 2019 9:55:04 PM
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A cooperator wrote:
Audiendus wrote:
A cooperator wrote:
If it agreed with its subject, it would have been written: "More than 70 percent of 259 people were men, who researchers..."

The subject in the above sentence is not 259 people, but More than 70 percent of 259 people. The part of the subject that should agree with the verb is: More than 70 percent. We could say:

Of 259 people, more than 70 percent were men (subject underlined).


Thanks a lot, Audiendus, along with Thar,
Then, the subject in the sentence "Over 85 percent of abusers are men, and domestic...." is also not 'abusers', but Over 85 percent of abusers. Yes. The part of the subject that should agree with the verb is: Over 85 percent. Yes. We could say:

Of abusers, over 85 percent are men, and domestic.... Yes.
Of abusers, over 85 out of a hundred are men, and domestic.... Yes.

Audiendus wrote:

Since "70 percent" means "70 out of a hundred", we could say:

Of 259 people, more than 70 out of a hundred were men.

You can see that "were" agrees with "more than 70 out of a hundred" in the above sentence.


Firstly, AFAIK, 'one out of three' means '1/3' or 'a third' as in "one out of three consumers globally say they are spending more money today on beauty and health care products.". So, '70 out of a hundred' can also mean '70/100'.
So, could we say:
Of 259 people, more than 70/100 were men. Yes.
More than 70/100 of 259 people were men. Yes.

Secondly, in the sentence "one out of three("a third", "1/3" of ) consumers globally say they are spending more money today on beauty and health care products....", I think the part of the subject that should agree with the verb is: 'one out of three'('1/3'). 'one of each three consumers' is a singular. So, why does 'say' not end with '-s' to agree with the part of subject? You are right – it should be "says". But in informal English, the plural form of the verb is often used in such cases.

Thirdly, "85 percent" means "85 out of a hundred", and "70 percent" means "70 out of a hundred". In the sentence "one out of three consumers globally say...", there is no preposition 'of' followed the part of subject that should agree with the verb. So, I think that the preposition 'of' shouldn't also follow the part of subject that should agree with the verb in both "Over 85 out of a hundred of abusers are men,.." and "More than 70 out of a hundred of 259 people[/u] were men."
The correct forms are:

One out of three consumers...
Over 85 out of a hundred abusers...
More than 70 out of a hundred people...
More than 70 out of a hundred of 259 people...
(The last one is an awkward sentence, but you cannot omit the "of". "More than 70 out of a hundred 259 people" would make no sense.)


Finally, is it always the first part of a subject that should agree with a verb?
The keys of the room are needed to be oiled.
Yes.
BobShilling
Posted: Monday, April 1, 2019 4:18:26 AM
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A cooperator wrote:
... is it always the first part of a subject that should agree with a verb?


That's a reasonable general idea, but it's not always immediately apparent what native speakers see as the head of the subject. Compare these two sentences:

1. A number of immigrants have been attacked.
2. The number of attacks has increased
.

In #1, 'a number of' functions like a determiner; the head of the subject noun phrase is immigrants (plural). In #2, the head of the subject noun phrase is number, singular.

Thar has already shown that expressions such as 70% can have an uncountable or a plural reference:

The land was flooded.
Much of the land was flooded.
70% was flooded.


The houses were flooded.
Many of the houses were flooded.
70% were flooded.


I have shown how apparently plural expressions can be considered singular items/amounts:

Twenty miles is a long way,
Fish and chips is my favourite meal
More than one person is unhappy about this,
Five and five is ten
,

and apparently singular expressions can be seen as plural:

The crowd are unhappy.
England are playing India tomorrow
.





A cooperator
Posted: Monday, April 1, 2019 7:45:49 PM

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Joined: 10/27/2011
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Location: Seiyun, Hadramawt, Yemen
Audiendus wrote:
The correct forms are:
One out of three consumers...
Over 85 out of a hundred abusers...
More than 70 out of a hundred people...
More than 70 out of a hundred of 259 people...
(The last one is an awkward sentence, but you cannot omit the "of". "More than 70 out of a hundred 259 people" would make no sense.)



Thank you, both of you very much indeed,
Then, I can conclude 'percent (Number%, e.g.: 70%, 70/100), a half (1/2), a third (1/3)(one-third), a quarter (1/4)(one-fourth) and so forth, can be followed by the preposition 'of', which means they are similar in dealing with.
More than 70 percent(70/100) of 259 people.
Over 85 percent(85/100) of abusers are men, and domestic...
A third(1/3) of consumers globally say...


Whoever doesn't own what he promises to those who do not deserve must not promise it.
Audiendus
Posted: Monday, April 1, 2019 8:33:00 PM
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A cooperator wrote:
Thank you, both of you very much indeed,
Then, I can conclude 'percent (Number%, e.g.: 70%, 70/100), a half (1/2), a third (1/3)(one-third), a quarter (1/4)(one-fourth) and so forth, can be followed by the preposition 'of', which means they are similar in dealing with.
More than 70 percent(70/100) of 259 people.
Over 85 percent(85/100) of abusers are men, and domestic...
A third(1/3) of consumers globally say...

Yes, that is correct.
A cooperator
Posted: Monday, August 26, 2019 7:40:18 AM

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BobShilling wrote:
A cooperator wrote:
... is it always the first part of a subject that should agree with a verb?


That's a reasonable general idea, but it's not always immediately apparent what native speakers see as the head of the subject. Compare these two sentences:

1. A number of immigrants have been attacked.
2. The number of attacks has increased
.

In #1, 'a number of' functions like a determiner; the head of the subject noun phrase is immigrants (plural). In #2, the head of the subject noun phrase is number, singular.


I also see today the head of the subject is "our students" in "Each of our students have their very own needs when choosing where to live.". However, 'each of' is a determiner. So, how do I find an idea to know what part of a subject must agree with a verb?


BobShilling wrote:
I have shown how apparently plural expressions can be considered singular items/amounts:
Twenty miles is a long way,
Fish and chips is my favourite meal
More than one person is unhappy about this,
Five and five is ten
,

and apparently singular expressions can be seen as plural:

The crowd are unhappy.
England are playing India tomorrow
.


That is why Lotje 1000, in the thread entitled 'Nationalism', stated the following:
Hence why I say it is absurd of Coop to start mentioning Romany repeatedly when talking about decisions the UK government have made.


Whoever doesn't own what he promises to those who do not deserve must not promise it.
A cooperator
Posted: Monday, September 9, 2019 6:02:09 AM

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Could anyone at this splendid forum take some of their precious time out to reply to my points below?
BobShilling wrote:
A cooperator wrote:
... is it always the first part of a subject that should agree with a verb?


That's a reasonable general idea, but it's not always immediately apparent what native speakers see as the head of the subject. Compare these two sentences:

1. A number of immigrants have been attacked.
2. The number of attacks has increased
.

In #1, 'a number of' functions like a determiner; the head of the subject noun phrase is immigrants (plural). In #2, the head of the subject noun phrase is number, singular.


I also see today the head of the subject is "our students" in "Each of our students have their very own needs when choosing where to live.". However, 'each of' is a determiner. So, how do I find an idea to know what part of a subject must agree with a verb?


BobShilling wrote:
I have shown how apparently plural expressions can be considered singular items/amounts:
Twenty miles is a long way,
Fish and chips is my favourite meal
More than one person is unhappy about this,
Five and five is ten
,

and apparently singular expressions can be seen as plural:

The crowd are unhappy.
England are playing India tomorrow
.


That is why Lotje 1000, in the thread entitled 'Nationalism', stated the following:
Hence why I say it is absurd of Coop to start mentioning Romany repeatedly when talking about decisions the UK government have made.


Whoever doesn't own what he promises to those who do not deserve must not promise it.
BobShilling
Posted: Monday, September 9, 2019 8:03:42 AM
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Joined: 4/1/2018
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Location: Beroun, Stredocesky, Czech Republic
A cooperator wrote:

I also see today the head of the subject is "our students" in "Each of our students have their very own needs when choosing where to live.". However, 'each of' is a determiner. So, how do I find an idea to know what part of a subject must agree with a verb?


No, it's 'each'.The verb should be 'has'.
Audiendus
Posted: Monday, September 9, 2019 9:47:44 AM
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BobShilling wrote:
A cooperator wrote:

I also see today the head of the subject is "our students" in "Each of our students have their very own needs when choosing where to live.". However, 'each of' is a determiner. So, how do I find an idea to know what part of a subject must agree with a verb?

No, it's 'each'.The verb should be 'has'.

Yes, "each" is a pronoun here. "Each [of our students]" is the subject of the verb. "Our students" on its own cannot be the subject, as it is the object of the preposition "of".
A cooperator
Posted: Tuesday, September 10, 2019 7:53:28 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 10/27/2011
Posts: 3,549
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Location: Seiyun, Hadramawt, Yemen
Thank you, both of you very much indeed,
I sometimes see a singular verb is used with each [of____]. Some other times, I see a plural verb used.
Each of your devices has unique keys.

So, I had to google ['each of' takes a singular or plural], and I found out the following:

When the pronoun [each] is followed by an of phrase containing a plural noun or pronoun, there is a tendency for the verb to be plural: Each of the candidates has (or have) spoken on the issue. Some usage guides maintain that only the singular verb is correct, but plural verbs occur frequently even in edited writing.

Also, could you confirm "....any repeatedly when talking about decisions the UK government have/has made"?

Whoever doesn't own what he promises to those who do not deserve must not promise it.
BobShilling
Posted: Wednesday, September 11, 2019 12:47:30 AM
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Joined: 4/1/2018
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Location: Beroun, Stredocesky, Czech Republic
Government, like many group nouns, can be used with a singular or plural verb in BrE.
BobShilling
Posted: Wednesday, September 11, 2019 1:38:29 AM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 4/1/2018
Posts: 1,334
Neurons: 7,119
Location: Beroun, Stredocesky, Czech Republic
A cooperator wrote:


So, I had to google ['each of' takes a singular or plural], and I found out the following:

When the pronoun [each] is followed by an of phrase containing a plural noun or pronoun, there is a tendency for the verb to be plural: Each of the candidates has (or have) spoken on the issue. Some usage guides maintain that only the singular verb is correct, but plural verbs occur frequently even in edited writing.


On that page you can also find:

The traditional rule holds that the subject of a sentence beginning with each is grammatically singular, and the verb and following pronouns must be singular. Thus you should say Each of the apartments has (not have) its (not their) own private entrance (not entrances).
Also, could you confirm "....any repeatedly when talking about decisions the UK government have/has made"?
BobShilling
Posted: Wednesday, September 11, 2019 9:31:46 AM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 4/1/2018
Posts: 1,334
Neurons: 7,119
Location: Beroun, Stredocesky, Czech Republic
A cooperator wrote:
So, I had to google ['each of' takes a singular or plural], and I found out the following:

When the pronoun [each] is followed by an of phrase containing a plural noun or pronoun, there is a tendency for the verb to be plural: Each of the candidates has (or have) spoken on the issue. Some usage guides maintain that only the singular verb is correct, but plural verbs occur frequently even in edited writing.




On that page you can also find:

The traditional rule holds that the subject of a sentence beginning with each is grammatically singular, and the verb and following pronouns must be singular. Thus you should say Each of the apartments has (not have) its (not their) own private entrance (not entrances). [/quote]
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