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lazarius
Posted: Tuesday, July 16, 2019 12:15:59 AM

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Location: Kotel’niki, Moskovskaya, Russia
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/boot

Quote:
intr.v. boot·ed, boot·ing, boots
To be of help or advantage; avail.
n.
1. Chiefly Southern & Midland US See lagniappe.
2. Archaic Advantage; avail.
Idiom:
to boot
In addition; besides: The new cruise ship was not only the biggest in the world, but the fastest to boot.

American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fifth Edition.

It is very difficult to find in use because of the other - shoe - meaning used so extensively. So I'm asking you if it is used today other then in the word bootless and the idiom mentioned above.

-
Adyl Mouhei
Posted: Tuesday, July 16, 2019 4:33:03 AM

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Location: Casablanca, Grand Casablanca, Morocco
Thank you, you always come up with interesting things.
thar
Posted: Tuesday, July 16, 2019 4:52:45 AM

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the idiom 'to boot' meaning 'as well / to cap it off' is very common - used in everyday speech.

'avail' no.
Maybe, as they say, in some parts of the US.

The root meaning has long been lost, as far as I am aware in BrE.

Quote:
To boot usually means “in addition, besides, moreover”, as here in Falk, by Joseph Conrad: “At all events he was a Scandinavian of some sort, and a bloated monopolist to boot”. The phrase can sometimes contain the idea of some positive outcome or advantage, not just something additional. In this, it’s reflecting its ancient origin in Old English bot, advantage, remedy. It’s of Germanic origin and is related to Dutch boete and German Busse (a penance or fine) as well as to the English words better and best.

Boot could at one time exist alone with the idea of profit or advantage (along with its opposite, bootless). Shakespeare uses it this way in Antony and Cleopatra: “Give him no breath, but now / Make boot of his distraction” — in other words, take advantage of his being distracted. It also turns up in several terms from feudal times that referred to the right of tenants to take materials from the manor for their own use, such as firebote, hedgebote, and housebote, in which it can be translated as “benefit”.

http://www.worldwidewords.org/qa/qa-tob1.htm


Quote:
Old English
Etymology
From Proto-Germanic *bōtō (“recompense”). Cognate with Old Frisian bōte, Old Saxon bōta, Dutch boete, Old High German buoza (German Buße), Old Norse bōt (Swedish bot), Gothic 𐌱𐍉𐍄𐌰 (bōta).

Pronunciation
IPA(key): /boːt/
Noun
bōt f (nominative plural bōte)

help, assistance, rescue, remedy, cure, deliverance from evil
Byþ hræd bót. — The cure will be quick.

mending, repair, improvement
... and án swulung þǽre cirican to bóte — and an offering to the church for repairs

compensation for an injury or wrong; (peace) offering, recompense, amends, atonement, reformation, penance, repentance
For bóte his synna — for a redressing of his sins

improvement in (moral) condition, amendment
Hé tó bóte gehwearf — he was converted



that meaning is long lost in English, but is current elsewhere.
Icelandic
Quote:
bót f ( -ar, bætur)

1. (bati) remedy, cure
e-ð stendur til ~a: sth will be improved
2.
mæla e-u ~: excuse sth, justify sth
3. (pjatla) patch
eiga ekki ~ fyrir rassinn á sér: be totally destitute
4. pl damages, indemnity
lazarius
Posted: Tuesday, July 16, 2019 5:07:17 AM

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Location: Kotel’niki, Moskovskaya, Russia
thar wrote:
that meaning is long lost in English

Thank you very much.

-
palapaguy
Posted: Tuesday, July 16, 2019 11:59:24 PM

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Location: Calabasas, California, United States
lazarius wrote:
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/boot

Quote:
intr.v. boot·ed, boot·ing, boots
To be of help or advantage; avail.
n.
1. Chiefly Southern & Midland US See lagniappe.
2. Archaic Advantage; avail.
Idiom:
to boot
In addition; besides: The new cruise ship was not only the biggest in the world, but the fastest to boot.

American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fifth Edition.

It is very difficult to find in use because of the other - shoe - meaning used so extensively. So I'm asking you if it is used today other then in the word bootless and the idiom mentioned above.

-

Other than in the idiom you mentioned? No, I don't think I've ever encountered it, and I've been around a LONG time. It suggests to me the modern concept of a "boot drive" which is of "help or advantage" to computers. It "gives them the boot" (a figurative kick in the pants) to help them get started.

Romany
Posted: Wednesday, July 17, 2019 9:49:05 AM
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Joined: 6/14/2009
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Palapaguy -

Ah, now we are mixing up our boots!

to "give someone/something the boot" is to throw them out; stop using them/it; make them leave; throw them away.

"Your kitchen scale is still in pounds and ounces! Time to give it the boot."
"If he shows himself in here again I'll give him the boot."

it's used in the same way as to "boot something/someone out" and refers to kicking someone/thing with one's boot:

"If these CDs were mine I'd boot them out - they're all scratched."
"Jeff makes a nuisance of himself when he's drunk: he's been booted out of every pub in town."

Whereas the collocation referring to computers is to "boot up" and has no other similie (as far as I know. Am not a computer techie.)

There's also "to put the boot in", said when, in a fight, someone starts kicking someone. It is most often used when it's done in a cowardly fashion e.g. when the person is already down & unable to protect themselves and someone starts kicking them when they're aware there'll be no consequences.
Sarrriesfan
Posted: Wednesday, July 17, 2019 2:17:57 PM

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Joined: 3/30/2016
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Location: Luton, England, United Kingdom
Romany wrote:
Palapaguy -

Ah, now we are mixing up our boots!

to "give someone/something the boot" is to throw them out; stop using them/it; make them leave; throw them away.

"Your kitchen scale is still in pounds and ounces! Time to give it the boot."
"If he shows himself in here again I'll give him the boot."

it's used in the same way as to "boot something/someone out" and refers to kicking someone/thing with one's boot:

"If these CDs were mine I'd boot them out - they're all scratched."
"Jeff makes a nuisance of himself when he's drunk: he's been booted out of every pub in town."

Whereas the collocation referring to computers is to "boot up" and has no other similie (as far as I know. Am not a computer techie.)

There's also "to put the boot in", said when, in a fight, someone starts kicking someone. It is most often used when it's done in a cowardly fashion e.g. when the person is already down & unable to protect themselves and someone starts kicking them when they're aware there'll be no consequences.


Romany I am a little bit techie so know that a computer “boot up” is a related to “bootstrapping” meaning the computer is starting itself up by itself by running simple programs to start more complex ones. This happens in the few seconds that a computer takes to start up now, it used to be longer I am sure you remember.

This comes from the term “pulling yourself up by your own bootstraps”, the leather straps that some styles of boots used to have to make them easier to pull on.
https://www.thefreedictionary.com/Bootstrap
Romany
Posted: Thursday, July 18, 2019 6:50:05 AM
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Oh my! I had never thought to connect 'puter-talk with existing traditional sayings! In my mind technical language was a whole different ball-game. Thanks so much for that - I found it illuminating!

btw - my son has just told me that the original phrase "to pull oneself up by the bootstraps" is said to be understood slightly incorrectly: one cannot, actually, pull oneself up using bootstraps; they have nothing to do with allowing one to rise. Therefore it was meant to refer to something it's impossible to do.

However, as I said, he just said this, so neither of us have verified it. Just thought you might find it interesting.
Sarrriesfan
Posted: Thursday, July 18, 2019 7:15:18 AM

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Location: Luton, England, United Kingdom
Romany wrote:
Oh my! I had never thought to connect 'puter-talk with existing traditional sayings! In my mind technical language was a whole different ball-game. Thanks so much for that - I found it illuminating!

btw - my son has just told me that the original phrase "to pull oneself up by the bootstraps" is said to be understood slightly incorrectly: one cannot, actually, pull oneself up using bootstraps; they have nothing to do with allowing one to rise. Therefore it was meant to refer to something it's impossible to do.

However, as I said, he just said this, so neither of us have verified it. Just thought you might find it interesting.


As I understand it the bootstraps made it easier to pull boots on meaning you were ready to take action faster than someone without such straps on their boots.
But yes you could not pull yourself up using those straps, just pull the boots on quicker.
Romany
Posted: Friday, July 19, 2019 10:18:35 AM
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Have just found this https://www.columbiaspectator.com/2012/09/24/bootstraps-bootstraps/ which is an editorial from Columbia Uni discussing this very point. Found it rather interesting.

Makes one wonder: if it really means "to do something impossible", then it is even more complimentary than if we just congratulate someone for having made their own way in the world.
Sarrriesfan
Posted: Friday, July 19, 2019 12:33:04 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 3/30/2016
Posts: 1,554
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Location: Luton, England, United Kingdom
Romany wrote:
Have just found this https://www.columbiaspectator.com/2012/09/24/bootstraps-bootstraps/ which is an editorial from Columbia Uni discussing this very point. Found it rather interesting.

Makes one wonder: if it really means "to do something impossible", then it is even more complimentary than if we just congratulate someone for having made their own way in the world.


I agree an interesting article.
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