The Free Dictionary  
mailing list For webmasters
Welcome Guest Forum Search | Active Topics | Members

Brexit, Offshore Money and Political Influence Options
Hope123
Posted: Saturday, March 9, 2019 10:34:15 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 3/23/2015
Posts: 8,604
Neurons: 49,271
Location: Burlington, Ontario, Canada
I have no dog in the Brexit hunt but found this article to be intriguing with a new angle for me. Even a hint of Russia in it. Perhaps others were already aware of the offshore money connection?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/global-opinions/the-more-we-learn-about-brexit-the-more-crooked-it-looks/2019/03/08/b011517c-411c-11e9-922c-64d6b7840b82_story.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.dad8c4b820b1



"Do the people you care about love you back?" Warren Buffett's measure of success
progpen
Posted: Saturday, March 9, 2019 11:31:48 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 10/2/2015
Posts: 2,025
Neurons: 348,119
Location: Haddington, Scotland, United Kingdom
Hi Hope, it looks like their website is behind a subscription wall, but this link might have similar information.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/jun/17/why-isnt-there-greater-outrage-about-russian-involvement-in-brexit

This talks about how the major news organizations in the UK (including BBC) have been reluctant to report on the Russian connections to Brexit, but have been more than happy to report on the Trump - Russia connections. This actually plays right into my thoughts on news organizations. They are much better at reporting on news outside of their native country.

Nolite te bastardes carborundorum
Romany
Posted: Saturday, March 9, 2019 12:53:19 PM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 6/14/2009
Posts: 15,380
Neurons: 48,295
Location: Brighton, England, United Kingdom
This feeds into something that's been puzzling me for ages.

As Michael Moore says at the beginning of his movie about the Bush election: "Was it only a dream? Did this never happen?"

Because as the debate about Russian interference in the Trump elections continues to be presented as if it were never discovered three years ago and splashed all over foreign newspapers...so this article seems to present the "outrage" about the interference with Britain politics as though all the shock/horror and exposition which happened three years ago never happened?

Not that I am arguing that that the writer is wrong to ask why nothing is happening NOW, it seems to be presented as though the whole subject and scandal of GLOBAL Russian interference has NEVER been discussed, exposed,illustrated, written about, debated, at Any time. While in the USA people continue to debate WHETHER it happened.

OK, so I don't own a TV or listen to commercial radio, so am not daily getting bombarded by the minuitiae of politicians eating bacon sandwiches or holding pigs. I expect three years of tv/radio news-time makes recall of what happened a month ago as difficult to recall as things that happened three years ago?

But, was it all a dream? Those maps with the dots pointing to all the Russian cells that were busted by a huge undercover force. The counties, towns and cities in which they were to be discovered. The information concerning governments of other countries who were also - to a lesser extent - targets. Those photographs of grimy windows behind which Russian bots and cells had been discovered and broken up. The sheer numbers of the people involved, the outrage, the talk of treason, the talking heads, the diagrams...did all that only happen during my REM stage? Did none of it ever really happen?

Dear Dorothy Progpen, I don't know where to turn. Please help me. (Signed) Confused from Brighton.
progpen
Posted: Sunday, March 10, 2019 2:16:16 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 10/2/2015
Posts: 2,025
Neurons: 348,119
Location: Haddington, Scotland, United Kingdom
Romany, you are not the only one wishing it was all a dream. The Republicans have gone from dumb and incompetent to willfully ignorant and malicious with no end in sight as they take the country down the toilet.

Nolite te bastardes carborundorum
Drag0nspeaker
Posted: Thursday, March 14, 2019 4:54:19 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 9/12/2011
Posts: 31,950
Neurons: 192,994
Location: Livingston, Scotland, United Kingdom
Hi Romany.
No, you weren't dreaming.

The 'false media' (both news-sites and social media) involved in the Scottish referendum, EU referendum and American elections was known about. On BOTH sides of each division.
It was easy to see in both of the British ones which news-sites were owned by trillionaire families (nearly all of them American-owned) and (at least in the Scottish vote) a comparison of the SAME story in the two countries showed different 'slant' for the Scottish edition aimed at scaring the populace.

Both sides lied in each of the decisions - but that's what politicians do.

But yes, the foreign influences through (particularly social) media was known, investigated and exposed.
Many of the "blog factories" and "Facebook factories" were tracked back by "good" hackers in Britain and the USA to specific areas of Russia, China and the far east.


Wyrd bið ful aræd - bull!
progpen
Posted: Friday, March 15, 2019 2:40:02 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 10/2/2015
Posts: 2,025
Neurons: 348,119
Location: Haddington, Scotland, United Kingdom
Romany wrote:
Because as the debate about Russian interference in the Trump elections continues to be presented as if it were never discovered three years ago and splashed all over foreign newspapers...


And that is the answer right there. It was splashed all over foreign newspapers. In the US, it never made it past the 'discovery' or 'investigatory' phase even though our spooks knew from the start what was going and our legislative body has known for quite some time. The corporate owned and run media only reported what they had to (the bare minimum) regarding the election tampering and never showed it as being more than a possibility.

Nolite te bastardes carborundorum
Oscar D. Grouch
Posted: Friday, March 15, 2019 5:37:32 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 6/26/2014
Posts: 626
Neurons: 1,014,833
Hope123 wrote:
I have no dog in the Brexit hunt but found this article to be intriguing with a new angle for me. Even a hint of Russia in it. Perhaps others were already aware of the offshore money connection?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/global-opinions/the-more-we-learn-about-brexit-the-more-crooked-it-looks/2019/03/08/b011517c-411c-11e9-922c-64d6b7840b82_story.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.dad8c4b820b1




tRump is a Russian plot to make the US weak.

Brexit is a Russian plot to make the EU weak.

Both are Putin's cat and mouse games.

Remember, when the cat's finished playing with the mouse, it has dinner. Yum. Tasty mouse.
Y111
Posted: Friday, March 15, 2019 6:49:52 AM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 6/25/2017
Posts: 316
Neurons: 1,564
Trump is a product of American culture and political system. He was elected by millions of Americans, not Russians. Don't blame others for shit in your pants.
progpen
Posted: Friday, March 15, 2019 9:47:39 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 10/2/2015
Posts: 2,025
Neurons: 348,119
Location: Haddington, Scotland, United Kingdom
Y111, cute but not a valid comparison.

There is no question of whether Russia interfered. It happened.

Nolite te bastardes carborundorum
Y111
Posted: Friday, March 15, 2019 1:17:19 PM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 6/25/2017
Posts: 316
Neurons: 1,564
progpen wrote:
not a valid comparison.

Why is it not valid? Trump was born and grew up in America. He is an American product, not Russian. Those who voted for him are too. Do you mean a gang of foreign bots managed to change what millions of your people believe and want?

Trump was old enough for all of you to know what kind of person he was. He is now regularly called a pathological liar, a conman, a racist, a misogynist, etc. Yet he first became a candidate and then won the election. So either half of you wanted just that or are delusional and can't see reality. In the latter case your democracy is a joke because no result of any election is valid if half of the voters are lunatic. If you allow them to vote, it's not the Russians who are to blame.
Drag0nspeaker
Posted: Friday, March 15, 2019 4:48:52 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 9/12/2011
Posts: 31,950
Neurons: 192,994
Location: Livingston, Scotland, United Kingdom
Y111 wrote:
Trump was old enough for all of you to know what kind of person he was. He is now regularly called a pathological liar, a conman, a racist, a misogynist, etc. Yet he first became a candidate and then won the election. So either half of you wanted just that or are delusional and can't see reality. In the latter case your democracy is a joke because no result of any election is valid if half of the voters are lunatic. If you allow them to vote, it's not the Russians who are to blame.

I agree with you. From the investigations (and investigatory reporting) I've seen, the 'bots' and the rumours and memes which spread after them did influence things during the election. However, American news-sites and reporting and media influenced more - and the American education system even more.

Also, as you say, it was possible to see what Donald Trump was like six months before the actual election - not by listening to 'Opinion Pieces', but just by listening to what HE said on video.
But I don't think that half of the American voting public are 'lunatics'.
"Trump is a product of American culture and political system." - Y111

A political system in which Billion-dollar companies and their owners can choose which two candidates end up in the final election (in this election, it seemed to be rather a choice between the Devil and Satan - from the media reports at the time).
A culture in which it seems that most people don't listen to what's real, but DO listen to what "Opinion Leaders" say is reality. ("Democrats are Communist", "Republicans are Nazis", "Democrats are EVIL!", "Republicans are EVIL!")

I think Progpen, FounDit, LeonAzul, Oscar (and a few others on here) are among the few who really look and form their opinions from relatively 'primary data' (and they tend to have disagreements and opposing views, as is normal with political opinion) - but the others are not 'nuts' chronically. I'm sure it's more the result of indoctrination, miseducation - the culture - which includes social training by parents, schooling, peer-education (what you learn from older kids at school), peer-pressure (as adults), Hollywood, TV, news-media indoctrination and so on.

We all suffer from it (the 'slant' is different in different countries, but it's there).



Wyrd bið ful aræd - bull!
Hope123
Posted: Friday, March 15, 2019 5:25:23 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 3/23/2015
Posts: 8,604
Neurons: 49,271
Location: Burlington, Ontario, Canada
YIII,

You have a valid point about Americans being responsible for the kind of person they elected - and many continue to support for personal reasons in spite of what they see he is doing, how he is behaving, and the fact that he may be in the early stages of dementia. He just issued a veiled threat that he has the backing of the military, police, and Hell's Angels for Trump - who wear a Nazi symbol. We see this kind of presidential behaviour in Banana Republics but this is a first for America! Unreal!

People in New York, especially business people, hate Trump because they know he is a con man and has cost many a person their lvelihood. They did try to warn and the urban states did not vote for him.

But some like Trump because he says and does things that they agree with but have been prevented from saying what they think or doing because a civilized society demands they at least not act on their misogynistic and racist thoughts. And this relaxing attitude has spread around the world.

Proof of that statement is that the white male supremacist deranged shooter in New Zealand said he was shooting Muslims in support of Trump. (Not a quote.)

Human nature being what it is, people are easily swayed by what they read and hear in both the mainstream media and on social media. Bots may retweet the same tweet 100,000 times. And when something is repeated often enough, and/or someone sees others agreeing with a troll or bot, they tend to agree. Especially if they are uneducated or just ignorant of all the facts. There have been many psychological experiments showing how the herd mentality works.

Here are two videos about Bot farms and Russia and China. I was amazed at all the equipment showing they mean business. Huge amounts of money are made by these hackers.

https://youtu.be/sZmrIkRDMsU

https://youtu.be/NXvzhYnlTU0

I see, report, and block these bots and trolls all the time on Twitter as they spew hate, are abusive, and are spam, a hacked account, or a fake account. Quite often I get a report back from Twitter that the account has been cancelled.

Twitter does appreciate that people do try to do this all the time but there are too many and Twitter itself has a job keeping up. Facebook and other social sites are just as bad. New bots are released every day and it is not just Russia that is trying to subvert democracies and their elections all the time.

This manipulation has been happening for years - it is just that now electronics have made it easier.

Cross posted with Drago - am just going to read his post now.


"Do the people you care about love you back?" Warren Buffett's measure of success
Oscar D. Grouch
Posted: Friday, March 15, 2019 8:17:01 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 6/26/2014
Posts: 626
Neurons: 1,014,833
Y111 wrote:
Trump is a product of American culture and political system. He was elected by millions of Americans, not Russians. Don't blame others for shit in your pants.


Now that's just silly.

Russia’s Facebook ads show how Internet microtargeting can be weaponized


https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/posteverything/wp/2017/10/12/russias-facebook-ads-show-how-internet-microtargeting-can-be-weaponized/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.a3226eae2311

Russian operatives used Facebook ads to exploit America’s racial and religious divisions

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/technology/russian-operatives-used-facebook-ads-to-exploit-divisions-over-black-political-activism-and-muslims/2017/09/25/4a011242-a21b-11e7-ade1-76d061d56efa_story.html
Drag0nspeaker
Posted: Friday, March 15, 2019 9:53:16 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 9/12/2011
Posts: 31,950
Neurons: 192,994
Location: Livingston, Scotland, United Kingdom
Hi Oscar.
I realise this is your argument with Y111, but look at those two articles you quoted.

They say that Russia did this and that - OK.
But if that is all true (possibly a lot of it IS true) - they exploited an already-existing problem with American culture.
They posted ads which agreed with American white-supremacy, Christian-supremacy, exceptionalism and so on - all things which exist in American culture. The ads agreed with them and made them seem more acceptable.

They used Facebook and Twitter. Where are those SM sites based? Which culture did they grow up in?
They are a huge part of modern American culture.
These targeted ads simply used American culture.

It is the current (and last half-century's) educational system and "internet culture" which has bred Americans who know very little except what is on their personalised news-feeds.
This facet of American culture was what they used (and so did Trump himself - and I'm sure Hilary Clinton had Facebook fan-clubs too).

It is perfectly OK to point out the part Russia played (or at least 'those Russians who posted ads') but you (America, not you personally) DO have to accept responsibility for it being possible and for the millions of Americans who voted that way.


Wyrd bið ful aræd - bull!
Hope123
Posted: Saturday, March 16, 2019 1:06:26 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 3/23/2015
Posts: 8,604
Neurons: 49,271
Location: Burlington, Ontario, Canada
Drago,

And what is upsetting about the fact that those characteristics must have been there all along in the US and are just coming out from under the rocks, is that it is also happening in Canada - and I don't know where all these people came from. I wonder where was I when this was happening. We do have one of the best educational systems around.

We have Yellow Vests here in Alberta who have taken over the concept of YV of Europe but many are really white supremacists. Much of our media was sold to the US Republicans by the last PM, Conservative Stephen Harper. The journalists are told what to say by the owners and Canada is being manipulated by the US in this way with money. The CBC just wants a sensational story and seem to be interviewing mostly Conservatives. Even the leader of the Conservative Party has ties to alt right leaders and magazines. He spins and lies regularly. and has no platform except to attack the present government. I know that is their job but all the old Progressive Conservatives with their statesmen and women that I voted for are gone and this bunch are acting worse than children. They are taking note of Trump's playbook and the similarity is evident. They are trying to create fear of immigrants and fighting against a pollution tax where we already have an up front refundable tax credit paid on our income tax claim to counteract any inflation from companies raising prices as they deal with the pollution tax and fix up their pollution activities. The credit is already in our bank account.

Many of us are upset that these negative attitudes are happening in our counrtry and that 39% of the Ontario voters put in Rob Ford's brother and they knew what kind of man he was from when he was in council. They threw out a Lesbian woman who had increased the minimum wage, brought in a trial of basic income, got rid of smog days and did many other things to help the poor but they got rid of her because their hydro bills were too high and they didn't like the deficit. Ford told them he would get rid of the gravy and instead he has blown billions with his climate change and other policies while cutting funding for education, health care, autism, water safety, the environment, and other programs that help the disadvantaged.

This change from peaceful Canada and its polite citizens to many being angry and nasty has all happened in the past 12+ years when a Reform Party simillar to the US Tea Party took over. I thought it would be better once we kicked them out three years ago but remnants remain in the Conservative Party and it is hard for the present government to remain positive and fight against racism and misogyny every single day. And the atmosphere did get much worse around 2015 in pre election time in US.

I believe these attitudes are also happening in the UK and in almost every other country in the world. Who would have thought the UK would be torn apart by Brexit? Who would have thought something as horrendous as what happened yesterday would happn in New Zealand, and would be by a White Supremacist who was inspired by the President of the United States, according to the shooter's manifesto. We thought we got rid of that in 1945.

I blame a lot of this "disease" consuming the world today on the internet and social media where anonymity shows exactly what kind of people are giving their arm chair crticisms without having to make the hard decisions any government must make. And it makes it easy for groups to assemble. A lot of posts on media are uncivil and full of pure hate. Instead of working together my wonderful country is becoming more and more divided according to politics.

But many of us are working to stop this hatred and there are many Americans who are just as upset about what is happening in their country and are working to rectify the hatred and division with caring.

"Do the people you care about love you back?" Warren Buffett's measure of success
Y111
Posted: Saturday, March 16, 2019 3:27:54 AM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 6/25/2017
Posts: 316
Neurons: 1,564
Oscar D. Grouch wrote:
Now that's just silly.

Why is it silly? Before winning the election, Trump became a presidential candidate from one of the two main parties in America. Was it due to Facebook ads? I find it hard to believe. Probably those who promoted him knew what they were doing. You don't bet on a horse that can't win. So it's logical to conclude that they had reasons to believe that millions of Americans would vote for this man. And most likely not because of ads but because his opinions and promises would resonate with their own views and wishes.
progpen
Posted: Saturday, March 16, 2019 4:06:30 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 10/2/2015
Posts: 2,025
Neurons: 348,119
Location: Haddington, Scotland, United Kingdom
Hope, you hit it on the head with the fact that Canada has been affected as well. First, I'm not making excuses for the state the US is in right now. Our responsibility to get ourselves out of it.

Just because Russia is taking advantage of existing social and political instability in the UK, Canada, and the US does not negate the fact that they have interfered with voting in the US and UK. It happened, and most likely is still happening. Getting distracted by that bit of information does not move anything forward.

Yes, the US is a bright shining example of what not to do and how not to do it. Don't abrogate responsibility to corporations in return for convenience. Don't let money become the driving force behind your country's political structure. Don't allow extremists access that is not proportional to their numbers.

But mostly, don't interfere with the social and political environments of other countries unless you want to be attacked yourself.

Nolite te bastardes carborundorum
Oscar D. Grouch
Posted: Saturday, March 16, 2019 5:24:06 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 6/26/2014
Posts: 626
Neurons: 1,014,833
Drag0nspeaker wrote:
Hi Oscar.
I realise this is your argument with Y111, but look at those two articles you quoted.

They say that Russia did this and that - OK.
But if that is all true (possibly a lot of it IS true) - they exploited an already-existing problem with American culture.
They posted ads which agreed with American white-supremacy, Christian-supremacy, exceptionalism and so on - all things which exist in American culture. The ads agreed with them and made them seem more acceptable.

They used Facebook and Twitter. Where are those SM sites based? Which culture did they grow up in?
They are a huge part of modern American culture.
These targeted ads simply used American culture.

It is the current (and last half-century's) educational system and "internet culture" which has bred Americans who know very little except what is on their personalised news-feeds.
This facet of American culture was what they used (and so did Trump himself - and I'm sure Hilary Clinton had Facebook fan-clubs too).

It is perfectly OK to point out the part Russia played (or at least 'those Russians who posted ads') but you (America, not you personally) DO have to accept responsibility for it being possible and for the millions of Americans who voted that way.



Yes. The problem is Facebook. People get on Facebook and they get lazy at best (or just get stupid). They rely on Facebook for news. They forget that Facebook is an advertising platform and that THEY are the product being sold. Moreover, all of Facebook's users are really just Zuckerberg's lab rats running around in a giant maze. Facebook has repeatedly experimented on their members.

2014: https://www.nytimes.com/2014/06/30/technology/facebook-tinkers-with-users-emotions-in-news-feed-experiment-stirring-outcry.html

2018: https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/01/technology/facebook-end-news-feed-experiment-six-countries-that-magnified-fake-news.html

A Facebook newsfeed is NOT journalism.

Essentially, Russia (and others, the GOP also used Facebook microtargeting) found that it's easier to hack people's brains than it is to hack voting machines.

I remember what it was like around here in the Fall of 2016. You've been around long enough as well. The forums were swarmed by Russian posters promoting tRump. At least we saw the flames under the pot. Facebook users just saw the bubbles breaking the surface and didn't know why.

progpen
Posted: Saturday, March 16, 2019 2:13:45 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 10/2/2015
Posts: 2,025
Neurons: 348,119
Location: Haddington, Scotland, United Kingdom
It's great that people are beginning to see how damaging Facebook is, not just in the US but everywhere. That said, Facebook is just the largest medium that the Russians used. It most certainly was not the only medium (and I'm not even talking about Twitter because they are basically the same). What people don't get is that any forum, chat room, IRC, BBS, or website with active comments was used if there was enough traffic to make it worth the effort. Yes, Facebook/Twitter are by far the largest individually, but the fact that the Russians automated so much of it they could post to hundreds of thousands of different sites per second. So depending on how many they were actually reaching, it is entirely possible that Facebook/Twitter do not even represent the majority of people affected.

And unfortunately, every statement that I saw singling out American culture could also be used against UK culture.

Nolite te bastardes carborundorum
Hope123
Posted: Saturday, March 16, 2019 2:34:55 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 3/23/2015
Posts: 8,604
Neurons: 49,271
Location: Burlington, Ontario, Canada
Oscar wrote: "At least we saw the flames under the pot. Facebook users just saw the bubbles breaking the surface and didn't know why."

Neat!

::::

Oscar,

Not all facebook users use it the way you describe. Our grans put us on Facebook and Twitter several years ago. I thought I was going to see what they were up to but no, they are too busy with school, swimming, and jobs! They don't go on those sites.

But our family still uses FB for events and some photos. Rarely is anything political posted by the few personal friends I have on FB, along with family. I also belong to two locked and vetted groups sharing memories of the places where we have lived. Great to see photos of the then and now.

I recently have started posting on Twitter but if I read something I hadn't heard or don't understand, I do some research BEFORE spreading it.

I do not tolerate bad language and just block anyone on my feed who engages in that - a good feature on Twitter. I do have some interesting conversations and I actually have learned a lot and have even changed my mind about some things as others provided me with new info.

My feed is mostly from the US and Canada with a few from UK and a couple of other countries. I see all kinds of Americans upset about the way their country is being run right now and they really do hate Trump and the violence he encourages all the time. They say they are embarrassed for their country.

Yesterday I reported and blocked about 8 trolls/bots who started following me. There are many and their numbers are increasing as our CDN October federal election gets closer. I have no idea from what country these fake accunts originate - they may even be home grown.

But they are all posting anti Liberal tweets. That is in keeping with the Rightist populist movements targeting liberals and democracy itself.

The globalization, automation, and inequality are what has triggered this Alt-Right populist backlash that put Trump, Doug Ford, and other leaders around the world into power. (And climate change is not going to help.) It is the Liberals who bring in the help for the disadvantaged but they often vote against themselves because of the fesr stoked that "others" are taking their jobs. They are told that they can go back to the past which is impossible. Those lost jobs are never coming back - but new jobs can and are being created,

Edit - cross posted with Proggy.





"Do the people you care about love you back?" Warren Buffett's measure of success
progpen
Posted: Saturday, April 13, 2019 11:56:36 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 10/2/2015
Posts: 2,025
Neurons: 348,119
Location: Haddington, Scotland, United Kingdom
https://politics.theonion.com/shocked-vladimir-putin-slowly-realizing-he-didn-t-consp-1833575011

Shocked Vladimir Putin Slowly Realizing He Didn’t Conspire With Trump Campaign
“What the hell? I worked so hard on this—if I wasn’t colluding with the Trump campaign, who the hell was I colluding with?” said the dumbfounded Russian president, growing increasingly angry as he scrolled through his email inbox and recounted his numerous efforts at covert communication with individuals who he had thought were high-ranking Trump officials, but now he suspected were bots or anonymous internet trolls. “Man, it seemed so legit. I can’t believe I let myself get conned like this. I spent so much time emailing back and forth with DonaldTrump46@hotmail.com about compromising the democratic voting process, and now it turns out it was all fake? And we spent so much time gathering all that kompromat on the wrong people. Goddammit, I feel like I’ve wasted my life.”

For the record. This is from the Onion and is political satire / sarcasm.

Nolite te bastardes carborundorum
Drag0nspeaker
Posted: Saturday, April 13, 2019 5:33:37 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 9/12/2011
Posts: 31,950
Neurons: 192,994
Location: Livingston, Scotland, United Kingdom
progpen wrote:
I spent so much time emailing back and forth with DonaldTrump46@hotmail.com about compromising the democratic voting process, and now it turns out it was all fake?

Ho ho ho!

Like Hope, my involvement with Facebook is three locked and limited (invitation only) groups.
They're not political groups, so I have Russians, Hungarians, Republicans, Democrats and even the odd anarchist in each. But none of them are rabid and the most ridiculous biased statistics are filtered out by the members before they get posted (though we do still see some 'doozys' from all sides).
Did you realise that you can take two sets of TRUE statistics, and prove with one that the average person in Scotland is subsidised at £50 a week by English taxes - and with another set of TRUE statistics you can prove that the average Scot pays £50 a week more in taxes than they receive in benefits from the government. You just have to choose correctly how you take averages and so on.

I recently joined Quora, and I'll be leaving again soon, I think.
It's been overrun by either American imbeciles or foreigners pretending to be American imbeciles to cause reactions.
The majority of questions I see are of the type:
"Why don't Brits tell propper English like what we do here?"
"Why do Brits pretend that we didn't win WWII for them?"
"How come we don't just nuke all the commies like Britain and Australia?"
"Why don't other countries adopt a proper Health system like the USA where everyone gets proper care on demand?"
"How come, as all Europeans are living in total poverty, they don't join the USA as new states?"
And on, and on, and on . . .

And those are just the questions from Harvard PHDs - anyone below that seems to be filtered out.


Wyrd bið ful aræd - bull!
progpen
Posted: Sunday, April 14, 2019 2:04:24 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 10/2/2015
Posts: 2,025
Neurons: 348,119
Location: Haddington, Scotland, United Kingdom
Drag0, I have one account that I only use to talk to family. I don't allow anyone in that I don't know in person. That said, my job requires that I work with people who live on social media.

And I do recommend The Onion for political satire. Like the old Russian saying, "в каждой шутке есть доля шутки, остальное правда" in every joke there is a grain of truth (and no, that is not a direct translation, just how we would say it in the US).

Nolite te bastardes carborundorum
Y111
Posted: Sunday, April 14, 2019 4:39:28 AM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 6/25/2017
Posts: 316
Neurons: 1,564
progpen wrote:
Like the old Russian saying, "в каждой шутке есть доля шутки, остальное правда" in every joke there is a grain of truth (and no, that is not a direct translation, just how we would say it in the US).

Actually the old Russian saying is the same as the American (в каждой шутке есть доля правды). What you quoted is a modern variation of it.
Y111
Posted: Sunday, April 14, 2019 4:43:54 AM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 6/25/2017
Posts: 316
Neurons: 1,564
Drag0nspeaker wrote:
or foreigners pretending to be American imbeciles

How is that possible? I think there will always be mistakes in a foreigner's English. Mistakes of usage if not grammatical.

And some parts of grammar are difficult to master, like the articles for Russians.
Drag0nspeaker
Posted: Sunday, April 14, 2019 5:59:11 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 9/12/2011
Posts: 31,950
Neurons: 192,994
Location: Livingston, Scotland, United Kingdom
Hi Y111.
It is not the grammar in the questions (except in the one about speaking proper English).

If you read the questions, each one contains a lie about Britain or Europe - and then says that the USA is doing it perfectly.

Wyrd bið ful aræd - bull!
Y111
Posted: Sunday, April 14, 2019 11:38:34 PM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 6/25/2017
Posts: 316
Neurons: 1,564
Drag0nspeaker wrote:
It is not the grammar

Perhaps I hadn't understood you. I thought you were uncertain whether they were Americans or foreigners, and so I wondered how it was possible for a foreigner to deceive a native speaker.

But I am not familiar with Quora. If all they write there is short questions, then it must be possible. Though in that case it would also be logical for them to pretend to be British and write some nonsense about America. Why take one side?
Kirill Vorobyov
Posted: Monday, April 15, 2019 7:41:23 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 10/4/2016
Posts: 776
Neurons: 3,889
Location: Moscow, Moscow, Russia
Drag0nspeaker wrote:

And those are just the questions from Harvard PHDs - anyone below that seems to be filtered out.

Dancing

No, I think they should be lying about their background. I've known one or two MIT students when I was a student myself, those were quite intelligent fellows. I expect Harvard to be of similar standard of quality.
Drag0nspeaker
Posted: Monday, April 15, 2019 4:14:06 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 9/12/2011
Posts: 31,950
Neurons: 192,994
Location: Livingston, Scotland, United Kingdom
Hi Y111 and Kirill.
Yes - it is very easy (when I ignore my 'natural' reaction) to see that many of these people are simply trying to goad others into arguing and screaming. They are trying to cause Americans and Europeans hate each other (and Republicans vs Democrats, and religious people vs non-religious people, and Christians vs Jews vs Muslims vs Hindus . . .)
It's also easy to see that they're lying about their names and qualifications.

I assume that there are some real people asking questions - but they are drowned out by the sheer numbers of these stupid, divisive "insults phrased as questions containing a false premise".


Wyrd bið ful aræd - bull!
Users browsing this topic
Guest


Forum Jump
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.

Main Forum RSS : RSS
Forum Terms and Guidelines | Privacy policy | Copyright © 2008-2019 Farlex, Inc. All rights reserved.