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A cooperator
Posted: Saturday, January 12, 2019 11:03:42 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 10/27/2011
Posts: 3,145
Neurons: 11,746
Location: Ḩāḑírah, Hadramawt, Yemen
Hi Everyone!
I feel as "account" is used here in the two examples below as "calculate".

Your service provider may account for data usage differently.
Carrier data accounting may differ from your device.

However, I had looked the word "account" up in a dictionary, but I didn't find a definition as "calculate". I only found the followings:
1. To explain or do give a reason for sth
2. To supply the amount that is mentioned


Whoever doesn't own what he promises to those who do not deserve must not promise it.
thar
Posted: Saturday, January 12, 2019 11:27:55 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 7/8/2010
Posts: 18,445
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The two meanings, of keeping a record and counting, are linked together deep in linguistic history.


eg
count
recount
account

to count is notice how many there are of something
to recount is to tell a story
an account is when you tell someone what happened.
an accountant deals with money
accounting is the action of recording what happens to the money

to tell is to relate a story
a bank teller deals with the money (ATM - automated teller machine)


To account for something is to know how many you have, or what happened to them.

Quote:
account for
phrasal verb of account
1.
give a satisfactory record of (something, typically money, that one is responsible for).
"I had to account for every penny I spent"
A cooperator
Posted: Saturday, January 12, 2019 12:08:57 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 10/27/2011
Posts: 3,145
Neurons: 11,746
Location: Ḩāḑírah, Hadramawt, Yemen
thar wrote:
The two meanings, of keeping a record and counting, are linked together deep in linguistic history.


eg
count
recount
account

to count is notice how many there are of something
to recount is to tell a story
an account is when you tell someone what happened.
an accountant deals with money
accounting is the action of recording what happens to the money


Quote:
account for
phrasal verb of account
1.
give a satisfactory record of (something, typically money, that one is responsible for).
"I had to account for every penny I spent"


Thanks a lot,
Then "account for" in my examples below doesn't have the meaning of "explain or give a reason for something, nor to supply the amount that is mentiond".
However, "account for" has the meaning "count" /"calculate". So, they can replace "account for".
Your service provider may account for/calculate/count data usage differently.
Carrier data accounting/calculating/counting may differ from your device.

Whoever doesn't own what he promises to those who do not deserve must not promise it.
Ana Gonzales
Posted: Sunday, January 13, 2019 9:50:10 PM
Rank: Newbie

Joined: 1/13/2019
Posts: 1
Neurons: 3
yes
Drag0nspeaker
Posted: Monday, January 14, 2019 2:28:10 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 9/12/2011
Posts: 31,029
Neurons: 185,554
Location: Livingston, Scotland, United Kingdom
You are right: "account for" in my examples below doesn't have the meaning of "explain or give a reason for something", nor "to supply the amount that is mentioned".

As thar shows from the dictionary, "account for" means:
"give a satisfactory record of (something, typically money, that one is responsible for)."

Your service provider may account for/record data usage differently.
Carrier data accounting/recording may differ from your device.


For example, your phone may show that it has recorded 5.5MB so far this month, but your service provider may have a record of 6.1MB used.

The phone and the provider tell you how many MB you have - and they may say different things.

Wyrd bið ful aræd - bull!
A cooperator
Posted: Monday, January 14, 2019 4:25:06 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 10/27/2011
Posts: 3,145
Neurons: 11,746
Location: Ḩāḑírah, Hadramawt, Yemen
Drag0nspeaker wrote:
You are right: "account for" in my examples below doesn't have the meaning of "explain or give a reason for something", nor "to supply the amount that is mentioned".

As thar shows from the dictionary, "account for" means:
"give a satisfactory record of (something, typically money, that one is responsible for)."

Your service provider may account for/record data usage differently.
Carrier data accounting/recording may differ from your device.


For example, your phone may show that it has recorded 5.5MB so far this month, but your service provider may have a record of 6.1MB used.

The phone and the provider tell you how many MB you have - and they may say different things.



Thank you all of you.
I've come across the statement below in which I am only concerned about the verb 'count' which is used as an intransitive. Does it mean here 'to be important or valuable' or 'to be accepted' since in my dictionary, only these two senses are used intransitively for 'count'?
count:
1. (T) to say numbers one after another in order.
2. (T) to calculate the total number or amount of sth
3. (I) to be important or valuable
4. (I) to be accepted
5. (T) to consider to be
6. (T) to include sb/sth
Quote:
What had you done yesterday before I saw you?
This is making the action perfect and complete -ie what tasks had you completed before the time that I saw you.
The time frame is constrained by 'yesterday' ie tasks completed before yesterday don't count.




Whoever doesn't own what he promises to those who do not deserve must not promise it.
Drag0nspeaker
Posted: Tuesday, January 15, 2019 2:14:46 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 9/12/2011
Posts: 31,029
Neurons: 185,554
Location: Livingston, Scotland, United Kingdom
Of those two intransitive definitions, I would choose "to be accepted".
However, that is not an exact synonym. There are four intransitive definitions in the Collins Dictionary and six (plus several phrasal verbs using 'count') in the Random House Kernerman Webster's Dictionary in TFD.

The nearest, in my opinion, is "to include" used intransitively - which acts like the passive "to be included".

Tasks completed before yesterday don't count.
We don't count tasks completed before yesterday.
That is, not counting tasks completed before yesterday.
Tasks completed before yesterday are not included.



Wyrd bið ful aræd - bull!
A cooperator
Posted: Friday, January 18, 2019 9:02:50 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 10/27/2011
Posts: 3,145
Neurons: 11,746
Location: Ḩāḑírah, Hadramawt, Yemen
Drag0nspeaker wrote:
Of those two intransitive definitions, I would choose "to be accepted".
However, that is not an exact synonym. There are four intransitive definitions in the Collins Dictionary and six (plus several phrasal verbs using 'count') in the Random House Kernerman Webster's Dictionary in TFD.

The nearest, in my opinion, is "to include" used intransitively - which acts like the passive "to be included".

Tasks completed before yesterday don't count.
We don't count tasks completed before yesterday.
That is, not counting tasks completed before yesterday.
Tasks completed before yesterday are not included.



Thanks a lot, Dragonspeaker,
But, "to include" is only used transitively, e.g. 'The holiday costs about £100, not counting the flights.". However, 'count' in the original example is used intransitively, and an intransitive verb is never used as part of a passive verb. So, why have you said "The nearest, in my opinion, is "to include" used intransitively - which acts like the passive "to be included"."
As a result, your alternative/synonym of 'count' in "Tasks completed before yesterday don't count." is used as transitively
We don't count tasks completed before yesterday.
That is, not counting tasks completed before yesterday.
Tasks completed before yesterday are not included.


Quote:
What had you done yesterday before I saw you?
This is making the action perfect and complete -ie what tasks had you completed before the time that I saw you.
The time frame is constrained by 'yesterday' ie tasks completed before yesterday don't count.


Whoever doesn't own what he promises to those who do not deserve must not promise it.
A cooperator
Posted: Friday, January 18, 2019 9:41:27 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 10/27/2011
Posts: 3,145
Neurons: 11,746
Location: Ḩāḑírah, Hadramawt, Yemen
Drag0nspeaker wrote:
You are right: "account for" in my examples below doesn't have the meaning of "explain or give a reason for something", nor "to supply the amount that is mentioned".

As thar shows from the dictionary, "account for" means:
"give a satisfactory record of (something, typically money, that one is responsible for)."

Your service provider may account for/record data usage differently.
Carrier data accounting/recording may differ from your device.


For example, your phone may show that it has recorded 5.5MB so far this month, but your service provider may have a record of 6.1MB used.

The phone and the provider tell you how many MB you have - and they may say different things.


But, I even looked the 'account for' up in the Longman dictionary, and I found out that 'to give a satisfactory explanation of why something has happened or why did you do something:
How did you account for the sudden disappearance of the murder weapon?

So, how did you account for the difference between ''to give a satisfactory explanation of why something has happened or why did you do something(explain or give a reason for something" and "give a satisfactory record of (something, typically money, that one is responsible for)."?
I, myself, don't find any difference?
However, in my examples below, I don't think that 'account for' can mean 'to give a satisfactory explanation of why something has happened or why did you do something". I am expecting 'account for' means 'calculate' in the examples below.
Your service provider may account for/calculate/count data usage differently.
Carrier data accounting/calculating/counting may differ from your device.

Whoever doesn't own what he promises to those who do not deserve must not promise it.
Drag0nspeaker
Posted: Friday, January 18, 2019 10:32:15 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 9/12/2011
Posts: 31,029
Neurons: 185,554
Location: Livingston, Scotland, United Kingdom
Quote:
So, how did you account for the difference between "to give a satisfactory explanation of why something has happened or why did you do something(explain or give a reason for something" and "give a satisfactory record of (something, typically money, that one is responsible for)."?

That (underlined) is a good example of one meaning of 'account for'!

I account for it by saying that your Longman dictionary only gives one of the two major meanings of the phrasal verb (there is also a third less-common meaning).

account for
vb (intr, preposition)
1. to give reasons for (an event, act, etc)
2. to make or provide a reckoning of (expenditure, payments, etc)
3. to be responsible for destroying, killing, or putting (people, aircraft, etc) out of action

Collins English Dictionary

He had to account for his actions. - explain or give a reason for the actions
He had to account for spending all the money - explain or give a reason for the action of spending
He had to account for all the money he spent during the trip. - give a record of the money


Wyrd bið ful aræd - bull!
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