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Kirill Vorobyov
Posted: Thursday, January 10, 2019 8:44:00 AM

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Hello, again.

I appologise for the rude lyrics, but I have no way to find out other than to ask on the forum... So this is the way it goes:

Ah shit, you done fucked up now (ain't nothin' but a gangsta party)
You done put two of America's most wanted
In the same motherfuckin' place at the same motherfuckin' time (ain't nothin' but a gangsta party)
Y'all niggas about to feel this
Break out the champagne glasses and the motherfuckin' condoms (ain't nothin' but a gangsta party)
Have one on us aight (ain't nothin' but a gangsta party)

Picture perfect, I paint a perfect picture
Bomb the hoochies with precision, my intention's to get richer
With the S-N double-O-P, Dogg my fuckin' homie
You'se a cold-ass nigga on them hogs.
....

This is from "2 Of Amerikaz Most Wanted" by 2pac & Snoop Dogg.

My question is:
What does the contraction "You'se" stand for?
And also, "hogs" here are girls, or what?

Many thanks!


thar
Posted: Thursday, January 10, 2019 8:45:52 AM

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Well the context is not entirely clear to me Whistle but my guess is
I is
You is
he/she/it is
we is
you is
they is

English irregular verbs can be very simple in the right hands!

the spelling is just.... how they spelt it. Whistle
Kirill Vorobyov
Posted: Thursday, January 10, 2019 8:49:32 AM

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Location: Moscow, Moscow, Russia
Thanks! So it's for "You're"... Yes, I never mind the spelling.
d'oh!

Then what does that whole line mean: You're a cold-ass n. on (them) hogs.


I am not sure who are "hogs", and what is it that you're on them?
Romany
Posted: Thursday, January 10, 2019 9:05:09 AM
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I think Australia leads with the "yous" thing. It's very common, amongst a wide swathe of speakers, to use "yous" as the plural form of "you" - even though it's considered sub-standard usage.

"Yous guys comin with?"
"I'm never coming out with yous guys again. You're mad!"
"Yous are all a pack of mongrels."

But this usage doesn't seem to fit in, so I guess it's just Gangsta. A lot of American rap and hip-hop is presented in Gangsta slang...that's what binds fans together. Though knowing the language is sub-standard, Gangsta & rap/hip=hop is an attempt to legitimise Gangsta as a real dialect.So most of the lyrics are only fully understood by gang members who speak the same dialects: which doesn't matter at all to the artist: if people think it's cool they'll pick up on it. Whether they really know what it means or not.

(I really love rap and hip-hop coming out of Australia, South Africa, UK, and the whole Skandi-wegian area - but find Gangsta-rap dead boring - and if one took all the "motherfucker"s etc. out of it,no substance would be left.)
Kirill Vorobyov
Posted: Thursday, January 10, 2019 9:26:40 AM

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Location: Moscow, Moscow, Russia
Hello, Romany!

Thanks for the "yous", I've never come across this. In fact, about the only examples of Australian English that I've ever got familiar with were the texts of AC/DC. Those seem to be quite normal English to me, but (i) I may simply not notice differences, and (b) they may adapt their language to a broader English-speaking audience, evading irregularities.
taurine
Posted: Thursday, January 10, 2019 9:36:14 AM

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Location: South Dublin, Ireland
In Detroit slang "amadoo" means "I am going to do".
In Detroit local language, the word "davenport" means "couch" or "sofa".
I am listening to energy trance and not to rap, but I am nearly sure that 2pac & Snoop Dogg use often slang of known to certain people origin and meaning.
In the result, unless you are black enough, you will not know it.
Sometimes, you may become "black enough" by making appropriate people your friends with you.

And now more serious part...

In Northern Ireland the word "you'se" was used in a context as follows:
1) "We went in after the girl and I was carrying a bomb. When we got inside the other fellow shouted "This is a bomb". I went in a good bit into the factory and left the bomb on the floor. The other fellow said you'se have plenty of time to get out and we rushed out.

2) "Prisoner visited girlfriend, Vanessa, at 10:25 p.m. Prisoner returned to Interview Room at 10:35 p.m.
Q. What did Vanessa say to you?
A. She knows nothing, she wasn't in the house that day.
Q. What day?
A. The day the Guerin one was shot. She wasn't in the house. She knows nothing about it.
Q. What happened at your house after the shooting?
A. Meehan and Holland called.
Q. Why did they call to your house?
A. You'se know why they called.

3) During a conversation with Massey the following exchange was recorded:
Massey: (t)hey chased him, whoever it was chased him.
Sandhu: Hit on the fucking elbow and back that's all how da fuck you gonna die like da fuck like if you're stuck in the car why they didn't they hit him in the car.
Massey: Don't know, fuck.
Sandhu: At least dead men don't talk, this dead man has made two statements to the police basically telling them you'se boys coming up.



I think that the word "da" used above is not a word from Russian language meaning in English "yes"Drool


Sas? Nic. Sassnitz. Rug, ja? Rugen (Telemark)
Marek Guman
Posted: Thursday, January 10, 2019 10:11:55 AM

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Yous is what my relatives in Ireland use for plural of you (and also even more informal yiz).
But I think this is what thar wrote - an example of a slang "you's = you is = you are" (mainly American English slang I guess).
Wilmar (USA)
Posted: Thursday, January 10, 2019 10:43:08 AM

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Absolutely NOT necessary to post all the vile lyrics just to ask ONE SMALL QUESTION! This crap needs to stop. Now!
Wilmar (USA)
Posted: Thursday, January 10, 2019 10:44:23 AM

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Marek Guman wrote:
Yous is what my relatives in Ireland use for plural of you (and also even more informal yiz).
But I think this is what thar wrote - an example of a slang "you's = you is = you are" (mainly American English slang I guess).


No, it is NOT American "slang". It is an uncommon speech problem of ignorant people -- if in fact, you even hear it from real people, and not just from someone trying to paint a picture of ignorant people.
thar
Posted: Thursday, January 10, 2019 11:24:37 AM

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Learners need to know the 'correct' verb forms.
Native speakers need to know the 'correct' form to use in appropriate places.

But

the rest of us can be a bit too precious about it all. It is the way people speak, and as valid as any other way.

If you want to blame someone for 'bad English' blame the Germanic tribes and later Anglo-Saxons who managed to mash together three or four completely different verbs - be / is (+am) - was / are

I mean d'oh!
West Frisian -be
ik bin
do bist
hy is
wy binne
jimme binne
sy binne

Old Norse - am/are
ek em
þú ert; est
hann er; es
vér erum
þér eruð
þeir eru


Irish Gaelic -- is?
Is mé
Is thú
Is é
Is í
Is muid
Is sibh
Is iad


English just doesn't like to say no to words. All welcome, we'll find a place for you somewhere.



The 'is' form was a verb in its own right before it got blended, and now everybody believes 'our way is the right way'. But no language is immune to change.

The same with 'to go' + 'went' (the past participle of ' to wend' is now 'wended', since 'went' has been appropriated by another team).

In English dialect, you commonly hear the 'you be' not 'you are' - but that is not ignorance. It is dialect. Maybe it is just the use of the verb 'beon' not the verb 'wesan'.

The pattern of the modern verb 'to be' is, you must admit, a bit ridiculous. It is human nature to follow the pattern, and that is that verbs are the same for all the pronouns, only adding an 's' for the third person singular. But that would leave you saying 'I i', which is frankly quite hard to say. So "I is, or I's" seems a much more pragmatic option to me!

Does dialect become less valid if it is 'gangsta rap' with misogynistic crap, than if it is dialect from the kingdoms of Northumbria or Wessex?
taurine
Posted: Thursday, January 10, 2019 11:32:16 AM

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Location: South Dublin, Ireland
The matter with "hogs" seems to be even more interesting...

The Official Surrey Harley Owners Group. The Chapter members of this group are called "hogs".
At the beginning I was thinking about 'wild boar' and roasted ham from this lovely creature, but I may be wrong.

Sas? Nic. Sassnitz. Rug, ja? Rugen (Telemark)
Marek Guman
Posted: Thursday, January 10, 2019 2:30:28 PM

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"No, it is NOT American "slang"."

It's just a word we (in Slovakia) use for a way people speak English in different areas, I meant no offense.
Joe Bloggs 1
Posted: Thursday, January 10, 2019 3:50:52 PM

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"Hog" is a nickname for a Harley Davidson or apparently any large motorcycle.

Origin of "Hog" nickname

Beginning in 1920, a team of farm boys, including Ray Weishaar, who became known as the "hog boys", consistently won races. The group had a live hog as their mascot. Following a win, they would put the hog on their Harley and take a victory lap.[163] In 1983, the Motor Company formed a club for owners of its product taking advantage of the long-standing nickname by turning "hog" into the acronym HOG., for Harley Owners Group. Harley-Davidson attempted to trademark "hog", but lost a case against an independent Harley-Davidson specialist, The Hog Farm of West Seneca, New York,[164] in 1999 when the appellate panel ruled that "hog" had become a generic term for large motorcycles and was therefore unprotectable as a trademark.[165]

On August 15, 2006, Harley-Davidson Inc. had its NYSE ticker symbol changed from HDI to HOG.[166]


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harley-Davidson#Origin_of_%22Hog%22_nickname

FounDit
Posted: Thursday, January 10, 2019 4:02:47 PM

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I've heard "you'se" and "yous" spoken. It was usually an elision of "you guys". Over time, it often just as easily became "youz guys" and then just "yous" or "you'se".

It seems to have originally meant a group, but eventually was used for a single individual as well. It was most often used by people living on the upper East Coast of the U.S. around New Jersey and some areas of New York in my experience.

"Hogs" is a slang term for Harley Davidson motorcycles, but with "gangsta" rap, there is no telling if that is true in their argot or not.

Joe Bloggs 1 posted as I was writing, and has provided more information of the term.


We should look to the past to learn from it, not destroy our future because of it — FounDit
mactoria
Posted: Friday, January 11, 2019 12:32:17 AM
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Agree with Joe Bloggs and FounDit that "hogs" in the quoted song, given the context, refers to a motorcycle, possibly/probably a Harley Davidson brand.


"You's" or "you'se" or "you's guys" was used by my father, a first generation Azorean-American who was raised by his widowed mother. This and several other annoying mispronunciations were despite his having graduated from high school being taught proper English and being an avid reader of decent literature; he was not an ignorant man. Drove my mother crazy for their whole marriage. I deduced he said "you'se" and other things because for decades he had to switch back and forth several times a day between Portuguese (his mother only spoke Portuguese) and English, pronunciations and grammar just got mangled up. My father wasn't the only first generation Azorean-American or Italian-American in my home town to use "you'se."
Kirill Vorobyov
Posted: Friday, January 11, 2019 4:47:19 AM

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Joined: 10/4/2016
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Location: Moscow, Moscow, Russia
Thank you all very much!

So much interesting information. I've been to States a couple of times for short visits, and my impression was that the culture of riding large bikes was more that of whites, so I am a bit surprised to hear it in very much blacks-dominated gangsta rap... I'd rather have expected them riding "drops" instead, based on what I hear in other songs. So it shows my impression was inaccurate / incomplete.

I am sorry the lyrics grated on ears of Wilmar and other people, I can see most or all of this gangsta rap must sound like crap to native speakers. For foreign learners like me I guess it's just a matter of curiosity and an opportunity to learn more about some marginal areas of language and culture. I am never going to use or promote such language, neither in English nor in Russian, I promise. Angel

And to Wilmar - I included the previous verse only to provide more context. It was not my intention to just post more of the dirty language. Angel
thar
Posted: Friday, January 11, 2019 5:21:19 AM

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I agree. I don't see any Harleys here.
It is not the aspirational vehicle of choice for a gangsta rapper!
And how more than one at a time?


I would say it refers to the hoochies except for the lack of profit, outside of prostitution (pimping).


Less likely the police, - don't know if the joke on pigs/hogs works for that demographic. But bikes? - no, I don't see it.

Can't read all posts so don't know what else has been said.
Marek Guman
Posted: Friday, January 11, 2019 10:19:38 AM

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Maybe hog means really a bike, while I can imagine a rapper riding a Harley, I certainly cannot imagine him riding a policeman. Whistle

Edit: sorry thar you said it: "less likely a police".

Maybe it means that the rapper is "after" the policemen, not riding them, of course.
palapaguy
Posted: Friday, January 11, 2019 12:34:17 PM

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Wilmar (USA) wrote:
Absolutely NOT necessary to post all the vile lyrics just to ask ONE SMALL QUESTION! This crap needs to stop. Now!

TOTALLY AGREE! Applause
Romany
Posted: Friday, January 11, 2019 2:44:41 PM
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According to the Urban Dictionary:

"Created by Yung Burke: A hog is similar to the word beast or badass or savage but is more meaningful than both those words. Being a hog is the ultimate quest."

("In Fremont, CA, there is a highschool called Irvington. Here, students are required to pass 3 benchmark projects to be able to graduate. The most gruesome of all is Quest, the senior benchmark. This sinister and hated project has been coined as a new campus curse word as of the year 2012, an alternative/substitute for the word "fuck". Any non-seniors who use this word gets Quested up.")

Which clears that upDrool ....... except:

on the next line was this:"HOG - penis hanging out of barndoor of boxer shorts."d'oh!

So: - where are we all now in understanding what this guy is telling us?

That's, as I said above, the reason that, though loving rap and hip-hop, I *never listen to American rap: - I just can't speak the language!Whistle

* OK, well seldom. Emenem doesn't rap in Gangsta, so I listen sometimes to him. One cannot but be in awe of his verbal dexterity, and his unbeatable rhyme-schemes; his ability to manipulate language at the speed of light! I've had years of theatrical training and the hours of vocal excercises this entails - but there's no way I could do what he does. (I've tried!!)
Marek Guman
Posted: Friday, January 11, 2019 3:44:34 PM

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[quote=Romany]
According to the Urban Dictionary:

"Created by Yung Burke: A hog is similar to the word beast or badass or savage but is more meaningful than both those words. Being a hog is the ultimate quest."

In Crossfit world and maybe powerlifting too the ultimate firebreathers are called Big Dogs (Dawgs). Beginners are puppies and more advanced people are pack.
But that's completely different community.
Romany
Posted: Friday, January 11, 2019 6:12:30 PM
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Yeah - that was my first thought too: the Quest as in stories and vids.

But did you read the explanation of how they are USING the word Quest? I didn't really understand it, but it had something to do with school marks?






Kirill Vorobyov
Posted: Monday, January 14, 2019 4:53:28 AM

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Romany wrote:


* OK, well seldom. Emenem doesn't rap in Gangsta, so I listen sometimes to him. One cannot but be in awe of his verbal dexterity, and his unbeatable rhyme-schemes; his ability to manipulate language at the speed of light! I've had years of theatrical training and the hours of vocal excercises this entails - but there's no way I could do what he does. (I've tried!!)


Eminem is Okay, I like that "Stan" thing. I've even tried to sing it myself in karaoke but did rather poorly, I am afraid. Even though I remember some of the lines by heart, it is still way too fast for me to reproduce.Brick wall

The mystery of "hogs" has remained unsolved then. So be it.
(If "You'se" means "You, Snoop Dogg, are" then my best guess is still that 2pac means girls somehow, as I understand Snoop Dogg has and thoroughly protects his reputation as a great and perhaps "cold-ass" (?) chaser - so that meaning would fit this story)
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