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stative - active verbs Options
Ivan Fadeev
Posted: Thursday, January 10, 2019 6:11:40 AM

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She appears to be mentally retarded. CORRECT
She is appearing to be mentally retarded. WRONG
It's clear.

I need your confirmation on the following.

She is appearing at the music club tonight.CORRECT( I know what it means)
But if she does it regularly what should be used?

She is appearing at the music club every night, because she sings there. CORRECT or WRONG?????
Or
She appears at the music club every night, because she sings there. CORRECT or WRONG ????
thar
Posted: Thursday, January 10, 2019 8:15:00 AM

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[quote=Ivan Fadeev]
She appears to be mentally retarded. CORRECT
She is appearing to be mentally retarded. WRONG
It's clear.

I need your confirmation on the following.

She is appearing at the music club tonight.CORRECT( I know what it means)
But if she does it regularly what should be used?

She is appearing at the music club every night, because she sings there. WRONG?????
Or
She appears at the music club every night, because she sings there. WRONG


this is tricky. The first is wrong because it doesn't work the the repetition of 'every night'.

But the second feels wrong because 'to appear' is stative. If you make it a habit, you make it an active verb - and that is to materialise.
The ghost appears every night at the top of the staircase.

If a singer is appearing at a venue - then they are appearing or they aren't. Yes or no. It is not a habit.
She is performing at the club
She sings every night (present simple repeated action)
She is appearing at the club all week (length of time, but present time).

I was going to say the second one was fine, but then it just sounded a little bit wrong to me.
Maybe other people will have no problem with 'she appears every night', but to me 'to appear' is a long-term thing for the run of the show. It just made me think of a ghost suddenly materialising on stage.
ozok
Posted: Thursday, January 10, 2019 8:42:36 AM
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Quote:

She appears to be mentally retarded. CORRECT
She is appearing to be mentally retarded... WRONG


I don't like the term 'mentally retarded'.




just sayin'
Ivan Fadeev
Posted: Thursday, January 10, 2019 12:58:21 PM

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If a singer is appearing at a venue - then they are appearing or they aren't. Yes or no. It is not a habit.


Why can't it be a habit? If she works as a singer at a club?

Would you give a pass to this one? "She is appearing at the club every other week" (to mean that she shows up to sing their)


If it's hard to tackle let's take another verb.


1) He is considering a candidature now. He is busy.
2) He always considers different candidatures. It's his job.
or should it be

He is always considering different candidatures. It's his job.
Marek Guman
Posted: Thursday, January 10, 2019 4:43:56 PM

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Yes, appear seems to be just a wrong word, maybe it's good enough to say
"She goes to the club every week, because she sings there." I know that you
probably mean, that she is performing on a stage, as a singer. There is a similar word in Slovak.


And yes, beware - mentally retarded is an obsolete term and is considered offensive,
"mentally disabled" is in use (maybe even this one is a bit offensive).


2) He always considers different candidatures. This is correct.
He is always considering different candidatures. It is correct, but it's like someone's
complaining that he does something he shouldn't do.


Bedells
Posted: Thursday, January 10, 2019 10:12:52 PM

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The Merriam-Webster dictionary gives this example:

"to show up:
He appears promptly at eight each day."

This seems a habit to me Think Think . Is it possible that the verb appear can also function as a non-stative verb? Could anyone please clarify?

Drag0nspeaker
Posted: Friday, January 11, 2019 12:01:00 AM

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Oh yes.
"It just suddenly appeared - as if by magic" is very active and totally non-durational (punctual).

Though many grammars separate verbs into only 'stative' and 'action' verbs, some have three groups: punctual (which occur at a point in time - in an instant); durational (which occur as an action which takes an amount of time - a duration); and stative (which occur over the whole of the time under consideration - the state of the subject throughout that period).

MANY verbs fit into two of these categories - sometimes with different meanings, sometimes with just different emphasis.

She is appearing at the "Globe" for the next month in The Tempest. - durational. That's her job for the next month. It will be different before and after that. It's an activity over the duration of a month.

She appears at the Globe in The Tempest. - stative. That's her job. No time period is considered. Though it's true that she started it at some time in the past and will go on to another play at some time in the future, the sentence (and the verb-type) pay no attention to that. The emphasis is on her state now, which is not changing.

At the start of the third scene, there's a flash of lightning and she suddenly appears in the middle of the stage. - punctual. One instant she's not there, the next instant she has appeared. It happens at one point in time.

There are differences in the perfect/imperfect present tense uses.
Most grammar rules apply mainly to durational verbs, with added rules for statives.

A real stative cannot be used in the perfect.
1. I am a man.
2. I am being a man.

A punctual verb cannot really be used in the present tense to describe present time.
3. He fires the gun at one-o'-clock every day. (This is not describing the present NOW, it is timeless, describing a habit/routine in the past and future. It is a repeated punctual event with no time limits.)
4. He is firing the gun in an hour - at one-o'-clock. (This describes a punctual event in the future.)
5. He is firing the gun. (Though you may hear it, it cannot be describing an instant NOW, it would usually be said just before he fires - or it describes a repeated action over a short time.)
6. He fires the gun. (This is an odd one.) It acts as a stative. His state, with no time limit, is "being the person who fires the gun".

The difference between the 'repeated action' examples is how the time limits are shown in words.
6. He fires the gun. - no time limit.
3. He fires the gun at one-o'-clock every day. - similarly, no time limits (but the times of the occurrence are stated).
5. He is firing the gun. - The use of the progressive shows that the repetition is limited to a short period before and after NOW.






Wyrd bið ful aræd - bull!
Jigneshbharati
Posted: Sunday, January 13, 2019 2:35:18 AM
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Wow Drago!!!
Ivan Fadeev
Posted: Monday, January 14, 2019 12:52:25 PM

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Thank you Drago!
So, basically if we refer to a repeated action (Present Simple) using dynamic verbs they behave as stative ones.

He considers different applicants every week. It's his job.
However,
He is considering a new applicant for the job now.

Right?

Drag0nspeaker
Posted: Monday, January 14, 2019 1:11:24 PM

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You could say that - but normally it is just stated as the 'rules': "A repeated, habitual action or an always-true fact uses the present simple." and "A punctual verb in the present simple tense refers to a future action or to a timeless fact". (It is the 'timeless fact' which acts very like a stative.)
- "He only eats vegetables" (timeless fact), "He is a vegetarian" (State of being)
- "He builds bridges", "He is an engineer."

Wyrd bið ful aræd - bull!
Ivan Fadeev
Posted: Monday, January 14, 2019 1:51:46 PM

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It's getting more clear. Thank you.

I also mean it's not OK to say

He is considering different applicants every week. It's his job.

Right?
Drag0nspeaker
Posted: Tuesday, January 15, 2019 2:37:38 AM

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Yes - it doesn't sound quite right.
It would be accepted without comment probably (as the second sentence explains the first), but that use of the progressive "is considering" - even with "every week" - limits the time period a little. It's more of an implication than a stated fact, but it is implicit in the tense used.

He considers new applicants every week. - This is a permanent fact. He has done it every week in the past, and you expect he will do it every week in the future. (OK eventually he'll retire, but you don't look at that.)

He's considering new applicants every week. - This is temporary. Possibly a few vacancies appeared and, since that time and until they are all filled, he is considering new applicants. It's limited.

This is true in British English, and I think (from hearing how they speak) Americans and Australians use the tenses similarly. It seems to be a little different in Indian/Pakistani English - possibly their 'philosophical background' and culture look at time a little differently.
One of the first most noticeable aspects of Indian English (spoken by people who did not learn English in England or from an English teacher) is the use of "I am being" and "he is being" etc. when talking about a timeless fact. - "He's being my brother" is a stereotypical type of statement (used by people imitating Indian speech).

Wyrd bið ful aræd - bull!
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