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I want my watch to be repaired (what is the active form of the full base passive infinitive) Options
A cooperator
Posted: Tuesday, December 25, 2018 5:32:24 PM

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Hi Everyone!
Do you think that 'I want my watch to be repaired.' is correct?
If so, I am going to transfer the full base passive infinitive 'to be repaired', then how would the active form be?
I don't think it'd be 'I want someone to repair my watch.' since only the infinitive is passivized.

Whoever doesn't own what he promises to those who do not deserve must not promise it.
palapaguy
Posted: Tuesday, December 25, 2018 6:48:40 PM

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A cooperator wrote:
Hi Everyone!
Do you think that 'I want my watch to be repaired.' is correct?
If so, I am going to transfer the full base passive infinitive 'to be repaired', then how would the active form be?
I don't think it'd be 'I want someone to repair my watch.' since only the infinitive is passivized.


I don't quite understand your question. If you're asking whether 'I want someone to repair my watch' is the active form of 'I want my watch to be repaired,' then I would say that it is.
RuthP
Posted: Tuesday, December 25, 2018 10:28:39 PM

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A cooperator wrote:
Hi Everyone!
Do you think that 'I want my watch to be repaired.' is correct?
If so, I am going to transfer the full base passive infinitive 'to be repaired', then how would the active form be?
I don't think it'd be 'I want someone to repair my watch.' since only the infinitive is passivized.

That is the way to go to active form.

The most common way of saying it, however, would be "I want to have my watch repaired" or "I want to get my watch repaired" (though that use of "get" drives some people nuts) rather than either of your examples.
Drag0nspeaker
Posted: Wednesday, December 26, 2018 4:34:58 AM

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A cooperator wrote:
Hi Everyone!
Do you think that 'I want my watch to be repaired.' is correct?
If so, I am going to transfer the full base passive infinitive 'to be repaired', then how would the active form be?
I don't think it'd be 'I want someone to repair my watch.' since only the infinitive is passivized.

Hello A cooperator.
You are right - only the infinitive is passive. The main verb "I want" is active.

I want my watch to be repaired. (Active verb - object of secondary verb - passive infinitive)
Following normal grammar rules, the main verb would be left active and the infinitive could be changed.
It is as you say - 'I want someone to repair my watch.'

However, as Ruth says, there are other (more common) ways that the idea would be expressed.
"I want to have my watch repaired."
"I want to get my watch repaired."
"I want my watch repaired."

(I'm one of the people who believe that "get" is used too much - but this usage of it is correct and very common.)


Wyrd bið ful aræd - bull!
Romany
Posted: Wednesday, December 26, 2018 7:50:28 AM
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So - do you guys talk about getting your watch "repaired" in normal conversation?I find that a little surprising. It's not something I hear - or, I think, would ever use.

"I need to get my watch fixed." "I need to get someone to fix my watch." (And hey, I speak BE.It would not occur to me to say "I want" to get someone to fix my watch!)

Wilmar (USA)
Posted: Wednesday, December 26, 2018 10:43:31 AM

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US- You would most likely hear "I need to get my watch fixed."
ozok
Posted: Wednesday, December 26, 2018 11:25:42 AM
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Quote:

"I need to get my watch fixed."


This is indeed how I would say it to a friend.

But once in the 'repair shop' I would be more formal and say:

"I would like to have my watch repaired (please)."



just sayin'
thar
Posted: Wednesday, December 26, 2018 1:26:17 PM

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I do have a watch - somewhere. I never wear it, though. But if I did - well, the bus fare into town costs almost as much as my watch, and I don't know what the price of a repair would be but I am betting it is more than ten new watches. So I don't have my watch repaired. Whistle

Ozok - nice to see you added that. The grammar 'I need my watch fixed' might be fine, but the culture of asking for it to be repaired requires a different format (I would like) and a 'please'.

edit
but I agree with Rom it is not the formality, it is about politeness
Romany
Posted: Wednesday, December 26, 2018 1:50:33 PM
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Ozok wrote"...But once in the 'repair shop' I would be more formal..."

I'm not passing any judgement on this, but all I'd like to know is "Why?". What is there about a watch repairer that would make you change the way you speak to them into a formal register? Rather curious.
Drag0nspeaker
Posted: Friday, December 28, 2018 9:33:35 PM

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It's funny, but this is one thing I WOULD use the 'more formal' phrase for - just because it's such a standard 'known phrase'. "Watch-repair", not "watch-fixing" or "watch-mending".

Nowadays, you may see 'watch workshop' or even 'watch lab'. However, if I were getting my grandfather's vintage gold pocket-watch repaired, I'd go to the 'watch repair' shop.

EVERY town (and even the odd village) has a Timpson's. They specialised in shoe-repairs, watch-repairs and locksmithying.



Good marketing, what?

But it seem it's the same in most parts of the world:



I'd use "I want to get my watch fixed/repaired/mended" if I were talking to someone uninvolved - as Ozok says, to a friend - usually if there's a "but . . ." coming up.

"I want to get my watch repaired but it'd cost a mint!"
In the shop, it would be:
"Can you repair this, please?"


Wyrd bið ful aræd - bull!
A cooperator
Posted: Sunday, December 30, 2018 8:43:59 PM

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Drag0nzpeaker wrote:

I'd use "I want to get my watch fixed/repaired/mended" if I were talking to someone uninvolved - as Ozok says, to a friend - usually if there's a "but . . ." coming up.

"I want to get my watch repaired but it'd cost a mint!"
In the shop, it would be:
"Can you repair this, please?"


Hello, Drag0nzpeaker, and every participant in this thread of mine.
I didn't hit on this sentence "I want my watch to be repaired.". However, Michael Sawn in his practical English usage mentioned to that

"I must get my watch repaired. (= I want my watch to be repaired.)
I must have my watch repaired. (= I want my watch to be repaired.)
Since "past participle" has a passive meaning in "must/have to/need to + get + object + past participle" OR "must/have to/need to + have + object + past participle", then as a math equation, (must/have to/need to + get + object + past participle) OR (must/have to/need to + have + object + past participle) = (want + object + full base passive infinitive)

1- I must get my watch repaired. = I want my watch to be repaired.
2- My passport has expired. I'll have to get it renewed. = I want it to be renewed.
3- I think we paid too much for the house. We needed to get the roof repaired. = we wanted the roof to be renewed.

I don't know if this can be applied for whichever an object and past participle are.
I must have my hair cut. (= I want my hair to be cut.??????)
If you don't get out of my house. I'll have you arrested. (=I want you to be arrested.????)
Also, I don't know if this can be applied for the other causative verbs, make, let, etc.
I must/have to make my watch repaired. = I want my watch to be repaired.
I must/have to let my watch repaired. = I want my watch to be repaired.


Anyway, I was absolutely misusing "want + object + full bare passive infinitive"
I was saying:
I believe as frustrated as I couldn't express my question in plain language. But, I am now trying to make it understandable as much as I can. What I want it to be conveyed is as follows:

The active form of the full base passive infinitive in "...want it to be conveyed' , based on what you said, would be "what I want someone to convey it..." It is wrong for what I'd like to say. So, it was supposed to be said "what I want to convey is...."

Whoever doesn't own what he promises to those who do not deserve must not promise it.
Drag0nspeaker
Posted: Sunday, December 30, 2018 9:39:50 PM

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Hi!

Does Swan actually say that "I must get my watch repaired" = "I want my watch to be repaired"?
It's not true. "Want" does not equal "must".

"Need", "Must" and "have to" are similar (not exactly the same).
"Want" is a very different concept.

I don't understand what you mean by "past participle" has a passive meaning in "must/have to/need to + get + object + past participle" OR "must/have to/need to + have + object + past participle".
The past participle in those phrases are acting as object complements.

"I will have to (do something)" is a different phrasal verb from "I will have (object) + (past participle).
"I will have you arrested" and "I will have to arrest you" are different statements.

Wyrd bið ful aræd - bull!
ozok
Posted: Wednesday, January 2, 2019 9:53:34 AM
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Romany wrote:

I'm not passing any judgement on this, but all I'd like to know is "Why?". What is there about a watch repairer that would make you change the way you speak to them into a formal register? Rather curious.


Dunno!. Make a choice:

I. That's the way I am. It is what it is.

2. He is a repairer...not a fixer (sounds crooked or deceitful).

3. Horses for courses.

4. Unlike some other languages that I speak daily (with varying degrees of authenticity), English long ago did away with the singular informal forms of 'you': thou, thee, thy/thine and the plural/formal singular ye. Where I live it is still a sign of respect not to tutoy (older) people by using the informal pronoun.

5. et cetera...et cetera


Is it any different from:


Romany 020818 wrote:

...a few non-partisan sites like, oh, I dunno - The Bureau of Statistics?...


I'm also not passing any judgment... is it advisable to use the (OK) word 'dunno' and other contractions in a job solicitation letter or on a CV? Or is this only for TFD and other social media.



just sayin'
Romany
Posted: Wednesday, January 2, 2019 10:36:54 AM
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Thanks Ozok -

As I said, it was merely curiosity - the way English is used fascinates me and is part of my job.

Knowing that it's a cultural thing both satisfies my curiosity and helps us to be able to help you with queries.

I'm rather confused about where the Bureau of Statistics comes into it though?

As to using casual English in a CV - are you equating using a formal register in a formal application, with using a formal register to talk to a shopkeeper?

If so - no, in our (very different) culture a sense of egality informs our interactions in day-to-day dealings - those who put a formal barrier up against shopkeepers or artisans etc. etc. would be regarded as "stuck-up", "a plonker", arrogant or "full of themselves".

To paraphrase - different strokes for different folks.

Language is so entwined with culture that learning how others use it opens us up to different cultures and fosters understanding. I find it is endless food for thought.
A cooperator
Posted: Wednesday, January 9, 2019 5:47:01 PM

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Location: Ḩāḑírah, Hadramawt, Yemen
Drag0nspeaker wrote:
Hi!

Does Swan actually say that "I must get my watch repaired" = "I want my watch to be repaired"?
It's not true. "Want" does not equal "must".

"Need", "Must" and "have to" are similar (not exactly the same).
"Want" is a very different concept.

I don't understand what you mean by "past participle" has a passive meaning in "must/have to/need to + get + object + past participle" OR "must/have to/need to + have + object + past participle".
The past participle in those phrases are acting as object complements.

"I will have to (do something)" is a different phrasal verb from "I will have (object) + (past participle).
"I will have you arrested" and "I will have to arrest you" are different statements.


Thank you all of you very much indeed,
Yes, he does actually say that.


Also, having been said 'a past participle has a passive meaning in such constructions', I've understood that 'past participle' can be regarded as 'to be + past participle' (that is, 'repaired' = 'to be repaired')

You do think that Swan's alternative above can be applied for other causative verbs(have, let, make, etc) followed by any object + any transitive past participle?

"I must get my watch repaired. (= I want my watch to be repaired.)
I must have my watch repaired. (= I want my watch to be repaired.)
Since "past participle" has a passive meaning in "must/have to/need to + get + object + past participle" OR "must/have to/need to + have + object + past participle", then as a math equation, (must/have to/need to + get + object + past participle) OR (must/have to/need to + have + object + past participle) = (want + object + full base passive infinitive)

1- I must get my watch repaired. = I want my watch to be repaired.
2- My passport has expired. I'll have to get it renewed. = I want it to be renewed.
3- I think we paid too much for the house. We needed to get the roof repaired. = we wanted the roof to be renewed.

I don't know if this can be applied for whichever an object and past participle are.
I must have my hair cut. (= I want my hair to be cut.??????)
If you don't get out of my house. I'll have you arrested. (=I want you to be arrested.????)
Also, I don't know if this can be applied for the other causative verbs, make, let, etc.
I must/have to make my watch repaired. = I want my watch to be repaired.
I must/have to let my watch repaired. = I want my watch to be repaired.

Whoever doesn't own what he promises to those who do not deserve must not promise it.
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