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Definitions of 'nouns' or 'adjectives' expressed as 'state of being+P.P, adjective' in dictionaries Options
A cooperator
Posted: Thursday, December 6, 2018 6:07:24 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 10/27/2011
Posts: 3,161
Neurons: 11,833
Location: Ḩāḑírah, Hadramawt, Yemen
Hi Everyone!
First of all, I hope you consider looking at the colours to understand me if I couldn't make my question be understood.
Whenever looking up a word, 'noun' or 'adjective' in a dictionary, and finding its definition is expressed in words like 'the state or condition of being +P.P/adjective', I get confused whether this sort of meaning can be found specifically for 'nouns' or 'adjectives'.



For instance, in the English oxforddictionaries.com, the definitions of the noun words in order, 'upset', 'going', are expressed as 'the state of being +P.P'. However, the definition of 'ascendancy' is expressed as 'the state of being + adjective'
However, the definition of the word 'moveless' (an adjective) is expressed as 'the state of being +P.P. The definitions of other nouns, such as 'strait' can be expressed as a state of extreme distress. However, the definition of other nouns, such as 'distress', can be expressed as none of the above sorts of definitions, for instance the definition of 'distress'(noun): extreme anxiety, sorrow, or pain') where there is no expressions of definitions as I mentioned 'the state of being +P.P/adjective'

You might see it as simple as the difference between a plant and seed, but I am really confused them.
For instance, do you think that 'Definition of "moveless"(Adjective): Not moving or capable of moving or being moved." can be expressed as 'The state of being not moved.'? So, I'll get this definition 'the state or condition of being +P.P expressed for an adjective as well.

Nouns:-
Definition 'Upset'(noun): the state of being upset./ the act of upsetting.
Definition of 'Going' (noun) : An act of leaving a place; a departure
the state of being gone. (an occasion when someone leaves a place or job permanently)

Definition of 'Ascendancy' (noun): the condition of being dominant, esp through superior economic or political power.
Definition of 'movelessness'(noun): (literary) the state or condition of being motionless or immobile.

Definition of 'straits' (noun): a state of extreme distress.

Definition of 'distress'(noun): extreme anxiety, sorrow, or pain.


Adjectives:-
Definition of "moveless"(Adjective): Not moving or capable of moving or being moved.

Whoever doesn't own what he promises to those who do not deserve must not promise it.
FounDit
Posted: Thursday, December 6, 2018 10:22:19 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 9/19/2011
Posts: 10,349
Neurons: 53,559
A cooperator wrote:
Hi Everyone!
First of all, I hope you consider looking at the colours to understand me if I couldn't make my question be understood.
Whenever looking up a word, 'noun' or 'adjective' in a dictionary, and finding its definition is expressed in words like 'the state or condition of being +P.P/adjective', I get confused whether this sort of meaning can be found specifically for 'nouns' or 'adjectives'.



For instance, in the English oxforddictionaries.com, the definitions of the noun words in order, 'upset', 'going', are expressed as 'the state of being +P.P'. However, the definition of 'ascendancy' is expressed as 'the state of being + adjective'
However, the definition of the word 'moveless' (an adjective) is expressed as 'the state of being +P.P. The definitions of other nouns, such as 'strait' can be expressed as a state of extreme distress. However, the definition of other nouns, such as 'distress', can be expressed as none of the above sorts of definitions, for instance the definition of 'distress'(noun): extreme anxiety, sorrow, or pain') where there is no expressions of definitions as I mentioned 'the state of being +P.P/adjective'

You might see it as simple as the difference between a plant and seed, but I am really confused them.
For instance, do you think that 'Definition of "moveless"(Adjective): Not moving or capable of moving or being moved." can be expressed as 'The state of being not moved.'? So, I'll get this definition 'the state or condition of being +P.P expressed for an adjective as well.

Nouns:-
Definition 'Upset'(noun): the state of being upset./ the act of upsetting. It isn't the "act" of upsetting, it is the state of being upset. It is the same as I am hungry/sleepy/tired, etc.

Definition of 'Going' (noun) : An act of leaving a place; a departure
the state of being gone. (an occasion when someone leaves a place or job permanently)
"Going" as a noun isn't the act of leaving a place. That would be a verb. What you mean by "going" is the state of going. "The going is difficult" would be the same as saying, "The "journey" is difficult/The travel is difficult."
You are describing the thing, not the action.

Definition of 'Ascendancy' (noun): the condition of being dominant, esp through superior economic or political power.
Correct. It is the description of a thing that occupies a place of ascendancy.

Definition of 'movelessness'(noun): (literary) the state or condition of being motionless or immobile.
Right. It is a condition, a state, a "thing" -movelessness.

Definition of 'straits' (noun): a state of extreme distress.

Definition of 'distress'(noun): extreme anxiety, sorrow, or pain.
When you are in a dire strait, you experience extreme distress. One describes the state (strait), and the other describes what is experienced (distress).

Adjectives:-
Definition of "moveless"(Adjective): Not moving or capable of moving or being moved.
A person, place, or thing is "moveless", so it is an adjective.


We should look to the past to learn from it, not destroy our future because of it — FounDit
thar
Posted: Friday, December 7, 2018 8:49:35 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 7/8/2010
Posts: 18,673
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I would ignore 'moveless' as a word, except maybe in chess where you can't make a move.

Think of examples of this word in your own experience - do you find any, anywhere?


Does anybody else?


There is an adjective 'motionless' for something not moving, and 'immovable' for something that can't be moved, but I have never heard of the word 'moveless'.
I doubt you will ever meet it in your language use, so it is not really a good use of your time to worry about the dictionary definition.

The Oxford Dictionary takes the line that if people have used it, then it qualifies as a word.
Quote:

moveless
ADJECTIVE
literary
Not moving or capable of moving or being moved.

Example sentences
‘Recollecting the day he saw Napoleon on the street, the poet imagines what must be the tumult of thoughts behind Caesar's moveless mask-the cities, the factories, the armies rising in the conqueror's dream of power.’
‘I leaned toward her later and I looked at her moveless lips reading.’
‘The frigate turned around glowing with jet engines, aimed at the center of the moveless Galaxy spiral whirlpool and started gaining speed.’
‘Their choreographed turning of backs left me speechless and moveless so I limped to my lamely un-costumed friend and told him that I was leaving.’
‘How can the mind, which speaks and sports, become moveless?’


Literary or bollocks - sometimes there is a fine line. Sometimes the distinction is very clear!
What is a moveless whirlpool? Whistle


The Cambridge Dictionary takes the line of 'it is not a real word'.
Quote:
Search suggestions for moveless
We have these words with similar spellings or pronunciations:

1loveless
2motiveless
3smokeless
4boneless
5homeless
6hopeless
7moonless
8toneless
9movements
10nerveless

Drag0nspeaker
Posted: Friday, December 7, 2018 2:37:09 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 9/12/2011
Posts: 31,340
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Location: Livingston, Scotland, United Kingdom
I agree that 'moveless' is (in normal English) a non-word.
Maybe a few literary people used it once or twice each - just to be different from 'normal people'.
"Moving" is the positive adjective, gerund and participle.
"Motionless" is a negative adjective. The opposite of the adjective 'moving'.
"Motionlessness" is the 'negative noun' (the state of being motionless) - opposite of the gerund 'moving' and the noun 'motion'
"Unmoving" is a negative adjective equivalent to the opposite of the adjective 'moving'. It is not used as a participle (there is no verb 'to unmove').

I disagree (just on one point) with FounDit.
Quote:
"Going" as a noun isn't the act of leaving a place.
It is used to mean that.

His departure caused great surprise. (People were surprised that he left.)
His leaving caused great surprise.

Maybe it's not used in American English - I don't know. However, it is definitely common in British (Oxford Dictionary) English.

I agree with the rest of his post.


Wyrd bið ful aræd - bull!
A cooperator
Posted: Tuesday, December 25, 2018 8:55:29 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 10/27/2011
Posts: 3,161
Neurons: 11,833
Location: Ḩāḑírah, Hadramawt, Yemen
Thank you all of you very much indeed,
I think you misunderstood me. Though, FounDit sounded to understand what I'd meant.


Take this scenario, and compare them.
I have these sentences, and I want to know if each one must be rephrased as the one next to it to have a complete meaning:
1. The child came back with a hand wounded. <=> The child came back with a hand which has been wounded.
2. The child came back with an arm broken. <=> The child came back with an arm which has been broken.

I was told that "#1 which has the same construction as #2 is also possible, but somehow sounds less natural than #2. I think this is because "wounded" signifies an act of wounding, whereas "broken" may be the result of an accident. So with "wounded", we want to know more (who wounded the child's hand?). So "with a hand wounded" sounds incomplete."

I am concentrating on what part of speech is 'wounded' and 'broken' according to these words highlighted:
"wounded" signifies an act of wounding, whereas "broken" may be the result of an accident.

I think 'wounded' means a verb. However, 'broken' is a noun. But, why did we not say 'broken' may be the state of being broken.

My confusion is I don't know how to know if a word to which the definition is expressed in such words is a verb, an adjective, or noun.




As a conclusion: I think definitions of the followings:
(1)Any adjective can be expressed in words like 'the state or condition of being + P.P', like the definition 'Upset'(noun): the state of being upset

(2)Any noun can be expressed in words, 'the state or condition of being + adjective'', like the definition 'Upset'(noun): the state of being upset, like the definition of 'Ascendancy' (noun): the condition of being dominant

(3)Any verb can be expressed in words "An act of '-ing', like 'wounded' (verb) signifies an act of wounding.

Based on the above, I think "the definition of 'Going' (noun) cannot signify an act of leaving a place; a departure since it is a noun, and the noun can be expressed by 'the state or condition of being + adjective, for instance, the definition of 'Going' (noun) can signify the result of leaving a place; (the condition of being gone) a departure.







Whoever doesn't own what he promises to those who do not deserve must not promise it.
A cooperator
Posted: Tuesday, December 25, 2018 10:34:32 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 10/27/2011
Posts: 3,161
Neurons: 11,833
Location: Ḩāḑírah, Hadramawt, Yemen
FounDit wrote:
Nouns:-
Definition 'Upset'(noun): the state of being upset./ the act of upsetting. It isn't the "act" of upsetting, it is the state of being upset. It is the same as I am hungry/sleepy/tired, etc.


FounDit, but I think 'upset' can be a verb, an adjective, and a noun.
So, as an adjective, the definition 'Upset'(adj): the state of being upset
As a noun, the definition 'Upset' (noun): the act of upsetting, being upset or the result of upsetting.
As a verb, the definition 'Upset' (verb): the act of upsetting.

Whoever doesn't own what he promises to those who do not deserve must not promise it.
A cooperator
Posted: Tuesday, December 25, 2018 11:21:32 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 10/27/2011
Posts: 3,161
Neurons: 11,833
Location: Ḩāḑírah, Hadramawt, Yemen
Drag0nspeaker wrote:

I disagree (just on one point) with FounDit.
Quote:
"Going" as a noun isn't the act of leaving a place.
It is used to mean that.

His departure caused great surprise. (People were surprised that he left.)
His leaving caused great surprise.

Maybe it's not used in American English - I don't know. However, it is definitely common in British (Oxford Dictionary) English.


Dragonspeaker,
But if 'going' is a noun(a departure), then I think "the definition of 'Going' (noun) cannot be expressed in the words "an act of leaving a place" since this definition signifies an action verb. However, the noun 'going' can be expressed in the words "the state or condition of being + adjective", for instance, (the condition of being gone); or 'the result of leaving a place'.

Whoever doesn't own what he promises to those who do not deserve must not promise it.
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