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Spiral Options
A cooperator
Posted: Tuesday, December 4, 2018 10:43:04 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 10/27/2011
Posts: 2,967
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Location: Ḩāḑírah, Hadramawt, Yemen
Hi Everyone!

The "spiral" in TFD,
Quote:
v. spi·raled, spi·ral·ing, spi·rals also spi·ralled or spi·ral·ling
v.intr.
1. To take a spiral form or course.
2. To rise or fall with steady acceleration.
v.tr.
To cause to take a spiral form or course


As a result, the word “sparil” has two meanings,
Firstly: (intr.) “to rise or fall with steady acceleration.”
How online abuse of women has spiraled out of control?
move in a spiral course.
"a wisp of smoke spiraled up from the trees"
Secondly: (tr.)“to cause something to take a spiral form or course."
I don't know any example as a transitive.

My questions are:
1- as long as it is an intransitive in #1 and gave a complete sense without an object complement, then why are "out of control" and "up from the trees" written?
2- may you give me an example when used as transitive?





Whoever doesn't own what he promises to those who do not deserve must not promise it.
Romany
Posted: Tuesday, December 4, 2018 11:24:27 AM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 6/14/2009
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Because every sentence in English is made up of a subject, verb, object.

To simplify: - When "spiralled" is used as a verb then "A wisp of smoke" (subject) spiralled (verb) "up from the trees (object). It's the basic building-block of an English sentence to use this formula. You've been doing it ever since you first were able to write/understand an English sentence.

When "spiral" is used as a verb then it must have a subject and object: "After the recent recession wages spiralled downwards." Here "the recent recession" is what caused wages to...spiral downwards, i.e. "caused something to take a spiral course.". "Spiralling violence resulted in many deaths." In this one 'spiralling violence' caused many deaths."
A cooperator
Posted: Tuesday, December 4, 2018 7:45:06 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 10/27/2011
Posts: 2,967
Neurons: 11,044
Location: Ḩāḑírah, Hadramawt, Yemen
Romany wrote:
Because every sentence in English is made up of a subject, verb, object.

To simplify: - When "spiralled" is used as a verb then "A wisp of smoke" (subject) spiralled (verb) "up from the trees (object). It's the basic building-block of an English sentence to use this formula. You've been doing it ever since you first were able to write/understand an English sentence.

When "spiral" is used as a verb then it must have a subject and object: "After the recent recession wages spiralled downwards." Here "the recent recession" is what caused wages to...spiral downwards, i.e. "caused something to take a spiral course.". "Spiralling violence resulted in many deaths." In this one 'spiralling violence' caused many deaths."



Thanks a lot, Romany,
I don't think every sentence must have an object unless the verb of a sentence is a transitive, For instance, 'improve' is an intransitive here, 'Your English has improved.' ('Your English', subject,.....'has improved', 'verb').

Firstly: But, 'spiral' is intransitive as “to rise or fall with steady acceleration.”, which means it doesn't need an object at all. With same concept 'Your English has improved.'
So, why is "out of control" written?
How online abuse of women has spiraled out of control?


Also, 'spiral' is intransitive as move in a spiral course, which means it doesn't need an object at all.
So, why is 'up from the trees' written?
"a wisp of smoke spiraled up from the trees."

Secondly: 'spiral' is used as a transitive, “to cause something to take a spiral form or course.". Could you give me an example when 'spiral' is used as a transitive?





Whoever doesn't own what he promises to those who do not deserve must not promise it.
A cooperator
Posted: Thursday, December 6, 2018 7:41:36 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 10/27/2011
Posts: 2,967
Neurons: 11,044
Location: Ḩāḑírah, Hadramawt, Yemen
Could anyone confirm my previous reply?

Whoever doesn't own what he promises to those who do not deserve must not promise it.
FounDit
Posted: Thursday, December 6, 2018 9:59:33 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 9/19/2011
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A cooperator wrote:
Romany wrote:
Because every sentence in English is made up of a subject, verb, object.
I'm not a grammar expert, but something looks wrong to me about the following sentences.

To simplify: - When "spiralled" is used as a verb then "A wisp of smoke" (subject) spiralled (verb) "up from the trees (object). "up from the trees" doesn't look like an object to me. It seems more like an adverbial phrase modifying "spiraled", the verb. It's the basic building-block of an English sentence to use this formula. You've been doing it ever since you first were able to write/understand an English sentence.

When "spiral" is used as a verb then it must have a subject and object: "After the recent recession wages spiralled downwards." Here "the recent recession" is what caused wages to...spiral downwards, i.e. "caused something to take a spiral course.". "Spiralling violence resulted in many deaths." In this one 'spiralling violence' caused many deaths."
This look to be the same to me. With the part saying, "wages spiralled downwards", the word "downwards" again modifies "spiralled", the verb, so it would be an adverb.




Thanks a lot, Romany,
I don't think every sentence must have an object unless the verb of a sentence is a transitive, For instance, 'improve' is an intransitive here, 'Your English has improved.' ('Your English', subject,.....'has improved', 'verb').

Firstly: But, 'spiral' is intransitive as “to rise or fall with steady acceleration.”, which means it doesn't need an object at all. With same concept 'Your English has improved.'
So, why is "out of control" written?
How online abuse of women has spiraled out of control?
It's an adverbial phrase modifying "spiraled".

Also, 'spiral' is intransitive as move in a spiral course, which means it doesn't need an object at all.
So, why is 'up from the trees' written?
"a wisp of smoke spiraled up from the trees."
Same again - adverbial phrase.

Secondly: 'spiral' is used as a transitive, “to cause something to take a spiral form or course.". Could you give me an example when 'spiral' is used as a transitive?
One example of spiral as a verb is given by TFD as: wages and prices continue to spiral.

Again, I'm no grammar expert, so hopefully one of our better grammar members will be able to help with this.





We should look to the past to learn from it, not destroy our future because of it — FounDit
A cooperator
Posted: Thursday, December 13, 2018 12:19:39 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 10/27/2011
Posts: 2,967
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Location: Ḩāḑírah, Hadramawt, Yemen
FounDit wrote:
Firstly: But, 'spiral' is intransitive as “to rise or fall with steady acceleration.”, which means it doesn't need an object at all. With same concept 'Your English has improved.'
So, why is "out of control" written?
How online abuse of women has spiraled out of control?
It's an adverbial phrase modifying "spiraled".

Also, 'spiral' is intransitive as move in a spiral course, which means it doesn't need an object at all.
So, why is 'up from the trees' written?
"a wisp of smoke spiraled up from the trees."
Same again - adverbial phrase.

Secondly: 'spiral' is used as a transitive, “to cause something to take a spiral form or course.". Could you give me an example when 'spiral' is used as a transitive?
One example of spiral as a verb is given by TFD as: wages and prices continue to spiral.

Again, I'm no grammar expert, so hopefully one of our better grammar members will be able to help with this.


Thanks a lot,
As long as the highlighted are just adverbial phrases, and the "spiral" is an intransitive, we can omit them, and still have complete sentences.
A wisp of smoke spiraled up from the trees.
A wisp of smoke spiraled.

How online abuse of women has spiraled out of control?
How online abuse of women has spiraled?

He reads at home.
He reads.

He went to the school.
He went.

Could you give me an example when 'spiral' is used as a transitive?

Whoever doesn't own what he promises to those who do not deserve must not promise it.
Audiendus
Posted: Thursday, December 13, 2018 8:32:36 PM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 8/24/2011
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Location: London, England, United Kingdom
A cooperator wrote:
Could you give me an example when 'spiral' is used as a transitive?


http://www.flocabulary.com/unit/civil-war/

Quote:
...you'll witness how divided sentiments around slavery spiraled the United States into the Civil War.
RuthP
Posted: Thursday, December 13, 2018 9:12:08 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 6/2/2009
Posts: 5,232
Neurons: 63,618
Location: Drain, Oregon, United States
Audiendus wrote:
A cooperator wrote:
Could you give me an example when 'spiral' is used as a transitive?


http://www.flocabulary.com/unit/civil-war/

Quote:
...you'll witness how divided sentiments around slavery spiraled the United States into the Civil War.

This is an interesting thread, and I'm glad you provided this example, Audiendus. I do not think I would use "spiral" as a transitive verb. I can recognize this as a not-wrong sentence, but the usage feels awkward.

So, Acoop, you have one AE vote that the verb "spiral" is much better as an intransitive verb.

Regarding "spiral out of control": that is an idiomatic usage. It usually means for something to change very rapidly, often to increase very rapidly. It really has nothing to do with spiral form, except that the overtone of taking a rising spiral path makes it feel a little more frantic and out of control. Your sentence about online abuse of women spiraling (<<AE spelling) out of control is intended to make the reader understand the rate of abuse, the number of incidents of abuse is increasing very rapidly.
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