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When to use capital letters for the first letter of a word?[Punctuation] Options
A cooperator
Posted: Tuesday, November 20, 2018 6:20:02 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 10/27/2011
Posts: 2,968
Neurons: 11,049
Location: Ḩāḑírah, Hadramawt, Yemen
Drag0nspeaker wrote:
Hi!
There are things which depend on your social group (country, possibly religion, even city).

Quote:
Executive Director - it is capitalised since it orders others.
Job Title: cobbler - it is NOT capitalised since it doesn't order others.


Personally, I would say "Why do you make an executive director more important than a cobbler? Doesn't a director need to wear shoes?" However, I do understand that in some societies, executives are considered to be 'better' than other people.

A cleaner has the right to order the Executive Director to pick up the paper cup he dropped in the corridor outside his office.
The cleaner is the executive (person responsible for executing the company policy) in the area of cleanliness.
If the ED drops his cup in the corridor, the cleaner has every right to say "Will you pick that up and put it in the bin?"
The ED has every right to order the cleaner "Can you come in and give my desk a polish? It has some coffee-stains from this morning's meeting and I have visitors in an hour."
(This is the English way of giving orders - you will never hear "Pick up that cup!" or "Come and polish my desk" in normal working environments.)

*************


Thank you both, Thar and Drag0nspeaker

Woops! You've impressed me. That is, I was expecting that 'cleaner' and even 'an office worker'(an employee. You do not use 'officer' or 'official' to refer to someone who works in an office. A person like this is called an office worker since s/he has no every right to order anyone in a company s/he works for.) cannot have right to say issuing order to any employees. So, the 'cleaners' and 'office workers' cannot be capitalized. However, you told that they have the right to order someone in a company they work for. Which means they can be capitalized in their post titles as well.
Mr Gray
Cleaner

Miss Hanaa
Office Worker

Miss Soa
Office Clerk

Ms Rugaya
Clerk

Mrs Douglas
Cashier

Then there is no convention.

Whoever doesn't own what he promises to those who do not deserve must not promise it.
Romany
Posted: Tuesday, November 20, 2018 8:14:13 PM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 6/14/2009
Posts: 14,764
Neurons: 46,162
Location: Brighton, England, United Kingdom
No, no no. NO-ONE has the right to order other people around. It doesn't matter if they are a boss or a cleaner. Unless one is in the Military, one doesn't take 'orders'. As Drago explained: even a Director doesn't give 'orders' to anyone.

And giving orders has absolutely NOTHING to do with capital letters.

And yes, yes, yes: what people have been telling you for months now: there is no general convention.

Some places capitalise all titles; some places don't. One just follows the Style Guide wherever one works - it differs from place to place; from office to office; from University to University, from country to country. Capitalising your occupation most certainly has nothing to do with WHAT your position is. It's all about what your company/institution prefers.
A cooperator
Posted: Monday, December 3, 2018 4:10:43 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 10/27/2011
Posts: 2,968
Neurons: 11,049
Location: Ḩāḑírah, Hadramawt, Yemen
thar wrote:
I think it has little to do with giving orders - it seems to be whether it is a word that describes their job, or a made-up title.

A cleaner cleans, that is what they do
An assistant assists, that is what they do.
A cobbler cobbles.
OK, a carpenter doesn't carpent, but carpenter is a standard English word - everyone knows basically what a carpenter does.

But a Vice-Chancellor doesn't vice-chancel! It is a constructed title, for a specific set of responsibilities.
An Executive Director doesn't executively direct! Again, it is a title that is constructed to describe a specific set of duties and responsibilities. I doubt most people have a clue what it actually means.


Thanks a lot, Thar,
That means that there job-describing titles(What a person does as his job) which you see shouldn't be capitalised, and a job level-describing made-up titles, you see should be capitalized.
Then, 'office worker', 'clerk' or any other employees in an organisation who are NOT Executive Directors, or Vice-Chancellors etc, then should be dealt with the same as 'cleaner', 'cobbler', 'security guard' in an organization.



thar wrote:
Maybe there is snobbery involved - but I think there is also the understanding that in the language, a cleaner is someone who does that task, but the word 'Executive Director' is a title given by the organisation.
Interesting to see if, when cleaners become known as Hygiene Operatives for example, that is capitialised as well!


Then I can type in the information of an Hygiene Operative employee in an organisation as the following in my address book, for instance,


Prefix and name: Mr Christopher Michael
Organization: Milk Bottling Plant
Job title: Hygiene Operative

Whoever doesn't own what he promises to those who do not deserve must not promise it.
A cooperator
Posted: Monday, December 3, 2018 4:17:28 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 10/27/2011
Posts: 2,968
Neurons: 11,049
Location: Ḩāḑírah, Hadramawt, Yemen
thar wrote:
I think it has little to do with giving orders - it seems to be whether it is a word that describes their job, or a made-up title.

A cleaner cleans, that is what they do
An assistant assists, that is what they do.
A cobbler cobbles.
OK, a carpenter doesn't carpent, but carpenter is a standard English word - everyone knows basically what a carpenter does.

But a Vice-Chancellor doesn't vice-chancel! It is a constructed title, for a specific set of responsibilities.
An Executive Director doesn't executively direct! Again, it is a title that is constructed to describe a specific set of duties and responsibilities. I doubt most people have a clue what it actually means.


Thanks a lot, Thar,
That means that there job-describing titles(What a person does as his job) which you see shouldn't be capitalised, and a job level-describing made-up titles, you see should be capitalized.
Then, 'office worker', 'clerk' or any other employees in an organisation who are NOT Executive Directors, or Vice-Chancellors etc, then they should be dealt with the same as 'cleaner', 'cobbler', 'security guard' in an organization. But, others like 'Drag0nspeaker, see that 'Security Guard' should be capitalized.



thar wrote:
Maybe there is snobbery involved - but I think there is also the understanding that in the language, a cleaner is someone who does that task, but the word 'Executive Director' is a title given by the organisation.
Interesting to see if, when cleaners become known as Hygiene Operatives for example, that is capitialised as well!


Then I can type in my address book, for instance, the information of a Hygiene Operative employee in an organisation as the following:


Prefix and name: Mr Christopher Michael
Organization: Milk Bottling Plant
Job title: Hygiene Operative

Whoever doesn't own what he promises to those who do not deserve must not promise it.
Drag0nspeaker
Posted: Monday, December 3, 2018 10:14:33 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 9/12/2011
Posts: 30,685
Neurons: 182,345
Location: Livingston, Scotland, United Kingdom
It is your choice, when you are writing it for your own use, in your own address book.

You can write in ALL CAPITALS, or capitalise every word, or only capitalise the first word.

If you are writing to a person in an institution (in a university for example) use the style which they use.

I don't say "Security Officer" should be capitalised.

There IS NO "should" - there are no rules, and different companies and institutions have different conventions.

I say that the convention where I have worked is usually (not always) that if it is a job-title, (not just a description) it has capital letters - like your example:

Prefix and name: Mr Christopher Michael
Organisation: Milk Bottling Plant
Job title: Hygiene Operative


The normal conventions for written texts and reports, in places where I have worked, were generally like this (though some people tended to capitalise any job-name, even when used generally). It's not such a big thing (not HUGELY important).

"John Smith, Security Guard, is hereby commended for his actions in the event of the recent fire, which saved the company . . ." - that's a post title, and is capitalised.
"Each building should have a security guard or two on post all night." - that's a description, and is not capitalised.

"The event was witnessed by the Upper Story Hygiene In-Charge, Mary Smith, who has written a separate report." - that's a post title, and is capitalised.
"The event was witnessed by the First Floor Cleaner, Mary Smith, who has written a separate report." - that's a post title, and is capitalised.
"You should get a cleaner to clear up that spill properly, it could be dangerous if someone slips." - that's a description, and is not capitalised.

"The Executive Secretary for Marketing and Promotion should approve any overall sales campaign before time and money are expended." - that's a post title, and is capitalised.
"The final approval should come from whichever executive secretary will be most involved with the work." - that's a description, and is not capitalised.



Wyrd bið ful aræd - bull!
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