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Will all Russians go to heaven? Options
Helenej
Posted: Sunday, October 21, 2018 9:36:36 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 9/24/2013
Posts: 2,124
Neurons: 10,453
Location: Kiev, Kyiv City, Ukraine
Putin: “We will go to heaven as martyrs, and they will just drop dead.”

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7MIBg-jSvqs

What Putin actually meant is:
“Russians will feast and have all kinds of unimaginable pleasure in heaven, while Yankees will rot in their stinking Protestant hell forever.”

I have a question, though:

Where will those Russians who do not believe in God or heaven go?

Wilmar (USA)
Posted: Sunday, October 21, 2018 7:18:13 PM

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Location: Vinton, Iowa, United States
Heaven has nothing to do with nationality or politics.
Elvandil
Posted: Sunday, October 21, 2018 8:11:19 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 12/5/2014
Posts: 311
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Location: East Montpelier, Vermont, United States
Helenej wrote:
Putin: “We will go to heaven as martyrs, and they will just drop dead.”

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7MIBg-jSvqs

What Putin actually meant is:
“Russians will feast and have all kinds of unimaginable pleasure in heaven, while Yankees will rot in their stinking Protestant hell forever.”

I have a question, though:

Where will those Russians who do not believe in God or heaven go?



Not sure about their final destination, but the oligarchs will probably stop by the Cayman Islands or a place with similar banking laws to pick up their lucre. They support the goal of heaven for the hoi polloi because religion is a means for social control even when no one is watching. "Religion is the laudanum of the people."

It is interesting that they will still be hungry in heaven or a feast would be a real drag. Maybe there are vomitoria like the Romans had so they can eat all over again. The whole martyr thing is kind of sad, too, because that means they will have to die for their religion. I guess that means the West wins.











(議思不の界世) pןɹoʍ ǝɥʇ ɟo sɹǝpuoʍ ǝɥʇ ɟo ǝuo sı ǝpoɔıun
Chazlee
Posted: Monday, October 22, 2018 3:24:45 AM
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Joined: 7/24/2016
Posts: 443
Neurons: 4,214
Wilmar (USA) wrote:
Heaven has nothing to do with nationality or politics.



Wilmar,

If Trump heard you say that, what do you think his reaction would be? Do you think he would call Heaven a "sh_ _hole," because it doesn't have a secure "border," and lets in all types of people he hates?


“I regret that the press treats me so badly.” Donald Trump.
Helenej
Posted: Monday, October 22, 2018 4:36:08 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 9/24/2013
Posts: 2,124
Neurons: 10,453
Location: Kiev, Kyiv City, Ukraine
Wilmar (USA) wrote:
Heaven has nothing to do with ... politics.

Do you mean that heaven has nothing to do with “political activities characterized by artful and often dishonest practices”, as Merriam-Webster dictionary defines ‘politics’? By using dishonest practices, it was not too difficult to start a war in eastern Ukraine or annex the Crimea.

Though, it seems to me now that Putin is getting tired of his slogan “Crimea is ours” and his new motto has become “Heaven is ours”. I am afraid that soon his “polite green men” will invade heaven in order to “protect the interests of Russian compatriots abroad”.



Absinthius
Posted: Monday, October 22, 2018 5:26:27 AM

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Joined: 4/23/2015
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Location: Amsterdam, North Holland, Netherlands
Wilmar (USA) wrote:
Heaven has nothing to do with nationality or politics.


Or reality...

Look, how about this? Let's pretend we've had the row and I've won. See? It saves a lot of effort.
Helenej
Posted: Monday, October 22, 2018 5:42:40 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 9/24/2013
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Location: Kiev, Kyiv City, Ukraine
Absinthius wrote:
Wilmar (USA) wrote:
Heaven has nothing to do with nationality or politics.

Or reality...

Anyway, lots of people, and that includes the highest officials, successfully use the concept in order to control others, to encourage them or to intimidate them.
Kirill Vorobyov
Posted: Monday, October 22, 2018 8:56:06 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 10/4/2016
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Neurons: 2,712
Location: Moscow, Moscow, Russia
(a) this is taken out of context;

(b) you're replacing actual citation with your own construct, and a rather colourful one - to a degree that makes it sound almost unhealthy, given the seriousness of the matter;

(c) you're trying to drive a wedge between "Russians" and "Yankees", i.e. white Americans descending from New England settlers. I wonder why you chose to single out that group specifically.
Drag0nspeaker
Posted: Monday, October 22, 2018 12:37:43 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 9/12/2011
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Location: Livingston, Scotland, United Kingdom
He is talking about anyone who would start a nuclear (apocalyptic) war.

Yes - everyone will be killed - everyone eventually, due to fallout, reprisal strikes etc.
His talk is fanciful - but less so than most southern-USA Christian fundamentalist zealots.

Nothing to do with Yankees - unless Texas declares war on Russia and starts a nuclear holocaust.


Wyrd bið ful aræd - bull!
Fazil J
Posted: Monday, October 22, 2018 6:39:54 PM
Rank: Newbie

Joined: 10/22/2018
Posts: 23
Neurons: 126
Kirill Vorobyov wrote:
This is taken out of context.

Putin believes that people can go to heaven after massacring hundreds of millions of other people. Can any context matter to this opinion?

Kirill Vorobyov wrote:
You're replacing actual citation with your own construct, and a rather colourful one - to a degree that makes it sound almost unhealthy, given the seriousness of the matter.

It is Putin who doesn’t give a hoot to the seriousness of the matter. He boasts that he will massacre millions of people, sitting back in his armchair, with his belly upwards, and he says, shrugging his shoulders and trying not to smile, that those innocent millions will “just drop dead”.

Kirill Vorobyov wrote:
You're trying to drive a wedge between "Russians" and "Yankees", i.e. white Americans descending from New England settlers. I wonder why you chose to single out that group specifically.

“Outside the United States, "Yank" is used informally to refer to any American, including Southerners.” (Wikipedia)

I agree that the word “пиндосы” would fit much better, but I am afraid this derogative nickname Americans are called in Russia is not known in English.

Kirill Vorobyov
Posted: Tuesday, October 23, 2018 3:54:53 AM

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Location: Moscow, Moscow, Russia
Fazil J wrote:

I agree that the word “пиндосы” would fit much better, but I am afraid this derogative nickname Americans are called in Russia is not known in English.



Americans are not called this "in Russia". This derogative word is used by a small bunch of filthy internet trolls who are set on creating divisions of any sort whenever and wherever possible.
Fazil J
Posted: Tuesday, October 23, 2018 5:19:02 AM
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Joined: 10/22/2018
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Neurons: 126
Kirill Vorobyov wrote:
“,,, a small bunch of filthy internet trolls …”

Angel This bunch is endless. Anyone who hates Americans calls them “пиндосы” on the Internet.

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=%D0%BF%D0%B8%D0%BD%D0%B4%D0%BE%D1%81%D1%8B+
mcurrent
Posted: Friday, October 26, 2018 6:24:45 AM

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Joined: 7/6/2013
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Most embarrassed that persons who take "пиндосы" in relation to Americans are working on American's soft, use American's YouTube, American/European hardware and appliance. And on meeting with American ambassador Michael McFaul they ask him (with such a wonder) why do you think America is more progressive than Russia?
A cooperator
Posted: Saturday, October 27, 2018 12:34:59 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 10/27/2011
Posts: 2,879
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Location: Ḩāḑírah, Hadramawt, Yemen
Helenej wrote:

I have a question, though:

Where will those Russians who do not believe in God or heaven go?



First of all, I hope I didn't misunderstand you.
So, my reply below is as per my understanding.

I think he means they'll be where other thoughtless creatures be. That is, they will be not important for their country, regardless of having the citizenship.

But, I think, in my beliefs, the Heaven and Hell are "afterife" or "life after death" (one's death and re-creation) under a condition.
However anyone believes in God, they'll enter the Paradise if God wills.
The important thing is his/her belief in the God must be that the God is the only one who created the existence.
That is, we can all have different names of the one Allah who created this existence.
Believers in no God except Allah in Islam, must believe in other things(such as, Muhammad is his messenger, the other prophets and messengers, etc) and do other things(prayers, fasting, etc), but all these things could be assessed by and up to Allah to forgive or not to forgive about them.

Whoever doesn't own what he promises to those who do not deserve must not promise it.
Y111
Posted: Saturday, October 27, 2018 2:38:38 AM
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Joined: 6/25/2017
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Location: Kurgan, Kurgan, Russia
A cooperator wrote:
First of all, I hope I didn't misunderstand you.

I am afraid you did. She was simply trolling.

As for what Putin said, it was obviously just a thought that sprang to his mind at the moment, not quite accurate, as such thoughts often are.
Fazil J
Posted: Saturday, October 27, 2018 4:50:43 AM
Rank: Newbie

Joined: 10/22/2018
Posts: 23
Neurons: 126
Y111 wrote:
She was simply trolling.
As for what Putin said, it was obviously just a thought that sprang to his mind at the moment, not quite accurate, as such thoughts often are.


Troll - to post inflammatory or irrelevant material to provoke responses.
Inflammatory - intended or likely to cause anger or hate.
Irrelevant - unrelated to the matter being considered.

I wouldn’t call Helenej’s post ‘irrelevant’ as her question is related exactly to the video she posted and to what Russia’s president said about the whole nation getting into heaven regardless of whether they believe in God or not. What if she is a religious person who trusts that “Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life” (John 3:36)?

I wouldn’t agree, either, that her question is inflammatory. It is Putin who was being inflammatory, publicly saying things which “not quite accurately spring to his mind” and which contradict the key idea the Holy Bible is imbued with. Putin always tries to present himself as a truly Christian and yet he says things that are likely to shake the faith of any believer.

Fazil J
Posted: Sunday, October 28, 2018 4:21:52 AM
Rank: Newbie

Joined: 10/22/2018
Posts: 23
Neurons: 126
Fazil J wrote:
Y111 wrote:
She was simply trolling.

It is Putin who was being inflammatory, publicly saying things which “not quite accurately spring to his mind” and which contradict the key idea the Holy Bible is imbued with.


Another example of Putin’s trolling is about the eagle on the American coat of arms, which allegedly has eaten all the olives. Notice how Mr. Bolton brilliantly parries Putin's attempt to sound witty.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lg8vOUS8xbg

Fazil J
Posted: Sunday, October 28, 2018 4:29:44 AM
Rank: Newbie

Joined: 10/22/2018
Posts: 23
Neurons: 126
Fazil J wrote:
Fazil J wrote:
Y111 wrote:
She was simply trolling.

It is Putin who was being inflammatory, publicly saying things which “not quite accurately spring to his mind” and which contradict the key idea the Holy Bible is imbued with.


Another example of Putin’s trolling is about the eagle on the American coat of arms, which allegedly has eaten all the olives. Notice how Mr. Bolton brilliantly parries Putin's attempt to sound witty.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lg8vOUS8xbg

Fazil J
Posted: Sunday, October 28, 2018 4:30:54 AM
Rank: Newbie

Joined: 10/22/2018
Posts: 23
Neurons: 126
Fazil J wrote:
Fazil J wrote:
[quote=Fazil J][quote=Y111]She was simply trolling.

It is Putin who was being inflammatory, publicly saying things which “not quite accurately spring to his mind” and which contradict the key idea the Holy Bible is imbued with.


Another example of Putin’s trolling is about the eagle on the American coat of arms, which allegedly has eaten all the olives. Notice how Mr. Bolton brilliantly parries Putin's attempt to sound witty.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=lg8vOUS8xbg

A cooperator
Posted: Sunday, October 28, 2018 5:12:39 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 10/27/2011
Posts: 2,879
Neurons: 10,562
Location: Ḩāḑírah, Hadramawt, Yemen
Fazil J wrote:

Fazil,
Isn't it enough to post it once. I think you're so upset about Putin while posting this last reply of yours.
Sometimes all leaders, for instance, Mr Trump, who said "All Muslims are danger to the US citizens, except the rich ones, of course!", make follies and absolute nonsense. That is why Mr Trump's been supporting the U.S' weak allies, KSA and UAE, unbelievers in the one Allah to protect them instead of the US, to continue the war in Yemen even after the Saudis' scandal of killing and cutting out the body of their opponent journalist citizen, Mr Khashoggi.
Do you know how inflammatory Mr Trump was?
Was Mrs Trump( this time of saying "Mrs", I, myself, am trolling) trolling?

I wish that all the strongest countries, along with all weak allies for each group, in the world were to be divided into two groups and then enter into a 3rd world war to remember how bad wars are.

Whoever doesn't own what he promises to those who do not deserve must not promise it.
Алексей Кравченко
Posted: Friday, November 9, 2018 9:27:55 AM

Rank: Newbie

Joined: 11/9/2018
Posts: 1
Neurons: 5
I am from Ukraine (Kiev), and I want to say that after Maidan, or as the authorities call it, the Revolution of Dignity, life has become much worse for everyone. Half of the country hates Russia, half treats it well. The eastern part of Ukraine dreams of Russia (not like the Crimea, but the attitude of residents to Russians is much better), the whole of Western Ukraine wants to be in Europe. But ... They consider themselves Europeans, but they drink and throw garbage right on the streets, and for the idea of ​​their own independence they are ready to kill even their own wife, if the political views do not coincide.

As for the bad attitude of Russians towards Europe and America, this is chauvinism in places and nothing more than confusion.
Tyoma
Posted: Saturday, November 10, 2018 2:06:35 AM
Rank: Newbie

Joined: 10/31/2018
Posts: 25
Neurons: 137
Алексей Кравченко wrote:
I want to say that after Maidan …life has become much worse for everyone.

What you say means that you are not able to see any connection between the population’s living standards and the annexation of about 5% of Ukraine’s territory, which happened a couple of days after Maidan. I wonder if the living standards in Britain would remain unchanged if more than half of Wales got annexed by another country (in proportion to the territory of the occupied part of Donbas).

What you say also means that you are not able to see any connection between the population’s living standards and the war that Ukraine wages against Russian troops and the rebels, that Russia has been supporting with weapons and provision for over four years, the war being launched just one month after Maidan. I also wonder if the living standards in Britain would remain unchanged if it had to deal with the same on the territory with population of 5.5 million people (in proportion to the population of the occupied part of Donbas).


Алексей Кравченко wrote:
Half of the country hates Russia, half treats it well.

In those surveys, many people state their attitude to Russia as a suffering neighboring Slavic people, that is, the country they speak the same language and the country where their relatives live. You should differentiate between people’s attitude to Russia as a country and their attitude to Russia as a state, whose aggressive policy has been condemned by the UNO, PASE and OSCE.

Алексей Кравченко wrote:
The eastern part of Ukraine dreams of Russia.

Dreams? Can you describe exactly what their dreams are like? Any evidence?

Алексей Кравченко wrote:
The whole of Western Ukraine … drink and throw garbage right on the streets.

Does this mean that people in Eastern Ukraine don’t drink and don’t throw garbage on the streets?

Алексей Кравченко wrote:
The whole of Western Ukraine … are ready to kill even their own wife, if the political views do not coincide.

Do you have any data about how many wives have been killed in the Western Ukraine because of different political views in the families?

Алексей Кравченко wrote:
As for the bad attitude of Russians towards Europe and America, this is chauvinism in places and nothing more than confusion.

Thank God that Russia's rich and especially the richest people don’t suffer from that confusion. They have always been buying real estate in Europe and the USA, have been sending their children to the best universities there, have been going there to get the best medical treatment and have been spending their holidays in the “rotten” West.

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