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'You'll get me killed.' Vs. 'You'll get me be killed.' (causative verbs) Options
A cooperator
Posted: Tuesday, November 6, 2018 5:38:57 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 10/27/2011
Posts: 2,877
Neurons: 10,552
Location: Ḩāḑírah, Hadramawt, Yemen
Hi Everyone!
I am confused with the usage of such patterns:
X get me killed <-> X get me be killed
X get it done <-> X get it be done
X make it done <-> X make it be done
X let it done <-> X let it be done
X have it done <-> X have it be done

Could you please explain what each sentence of each pair means?

For example,

You'll get me killed => you'll get yourself kill me.
You'll get me be killed => You'll get somebody kill me.




Someone talking about cheating in the exam. So, he/she says "I got it done" or "I got it be done"
I got it done => I got myself do it (cheat).
I got it(cheat) be done => I got somebody do it(cheat). I can say "I got it done. - Where "it" refers to "cheat"? It means that someone else made cheat done for me."


I got my hair cut. => I got myself cut my hair.
I got my hair be cut. => I got somebody cut my hair.



A wise person cannot get themselves deceived twice from the same persons. => A wise person cannot get themselves deceive themselves from the same persons.
A wise person cannot get themselves be deceived twice from the same persons. => A wise person cannot get the same persons deceive them twice.



I would appreciate it If you would keep me informed. => I would appreciate it If you would keep yourself inform me.
I would appreciate it If you would keep me be informed. => I would appreciate it If you would keep someone inform me.



Whoever doesn't own what he promises to those who do not deserve must not promise it.
FROSTY X RIME
Posted: Tuesday, November 6, 2018 6:40:59 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 10/20/2015
Posts: 1,013
Neurons: 11,242
The sentence "X get me be killed," is wrong grammatically.
It should be "X get me to be killed," because the verb "get" takes "to infinitive" after an object.
When it is written in that way, it means the same as "X get me killed."

What should be shall be-The fellowship of the ring-
A cooperator
Posted: Tuesday, November 6, 2018 10:20:57 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 10/27/2011
Posts: 2,877
Neurons: 10,552
Location: Ḩāḑírah, Hadramawt, Yemen
FROSTY X RIME wrote:
The sentence "X get me be killed," is wrong grammatically.
It should be "X get me to be killed," because the verb "get" takes "to infinitive" after an object.
When it is written in that way, it means the same as "X get me killed."


Thanks to you,
I am sorry these kinds of structures are far difficult to be understood. I think the key of understanding them is if you would be so kind as to explain in words why you did decide that the sentence "X get me be killed," is wrong grammatically.
If I am going to transmit the passive action, then "You'll get me killed" means "You'll yourself kill me." And also, "You'll get me to be killed." means "You'll get me to somebody kills me."

If "You'll get me killed." means the same as "You'll get me to be killed.", then "I got my hair cut." means the same as "I got my hair to be cut."

If "You got me be killed." is wrong grammatically, then from the same logic, all of these are wrong:
I got my hair be cut.
I got it(cheat) be done.
If you would keep me be informed.

Whoever doesn't own what he promises to those who do not deserve must not promise it.
BobShilling
Posted: Tuesday, November 6, 2018 1:41:04 PM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 4/1/2018
Posts: 545
Neurons: 3,704
Location: Beroun, Stredocesky, Czech Republic
You will get me killed = you will do something that brings about a situation in which I am killed
You will get me be killed - not possible
You will get it done = you will ensure that it is done
You will get it be done- not possible
You will make it done - not possible
You will make it be done - unlikely
You will let it done - not possible
You will let it be done = you will allow it to be done
You will have it done = you will cause it to be done
You'll get yourself kill me - not possible
You'll get somebody kill me - not possible
You will get somebody to kill me = you will ensure that somebody kills me
You will get me to be killed - not possible.




Someone talking about cheating in the exam. So, he/she says "I got it done" or "I got it be done"
I got it done => I got myself do it (cheat).
I got it(cheat) be done => I got somebody do it(cheat). I can say "I got it done. - Where "it" refers to "cheat"? It means that someone else made cheat done for me."


I got my hair cut. => I got myself cut my hair.
I got my hair be cut. => I got somebody cut my hair.



A wise person cannot get themselves deceived twice from the same persons. => A wise person cannot get themselves deceive themselves from the same persons.
A wise person cannot get themselves be deceived twice from the same persons. => A wise person cannot get the same persons deceive them twice.



I would appreciate it If you would keep me informed. => I would appreciate it If you would keep yourself inform me.
I would appreciate it If you would keep me be informed. => I would appreciate it If you would keep someone inform me.

[/quote]
renee talley 1
Posted: Tuesday, November 6, 2018 4:41:05 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 8/1/2018
Posts: 151
Neurons: 2,729
Anxious Think You'll get yourself killed whenever you overreact and make a rash decision. The other example you used takes the meaning away and your ability and get your ability from point A - b with much more emphasis when your more direct to the person.Applause Applause Dancing Whistle
renee talley 1
Posted: Tuesday, November 6, 2018 4:50:27 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 8/1/2018
Posts: 151
Neurons: 2,729
Whistle Think Applause Applause Speak to the hand
renee talley 1 wrote:
Anxious Think You'll get yourself killed whenever you overreact and make a rash decision. The other example you used takes the meaning away and your ability and get your ability from point A - b with much more emphasis when your more direct to the person.Applause Applause Dancing Whistle
I have known you for a long time know and getting in touch with
your emotions when you have gone through your emotions on paper is the best policy. If you feel you are bullied or threatened and you know who that person is; very discreetly go to the right law enforcement agency. When you are more calmer the person you're talking to the right you'll get far more results in the long run!!!Dancing Dancing Dancing Whistle Whistle Applause Applause Applause Applause
Drag0nspeaker
Posted: Tuesday, November 6, 2018 5:17:34 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 9/12/2011
Posts: 30,386
Neurons: 179,170
Location: Livingston, Scotland, United Kingdom
Hi A Cooperator.

Different (cause/allow/forbid) verbs of this type can have several 'following verb-forms' and different types of object.

With a predicate which is the action.


Full passive infinitive - 'I caused it to be done.' - 'He caused her to be killed.'
Base passive infinitive - 'I let it be done.' 'He let her be killed.'
Participle - 'I got it done.' 'He got her killed.'
Participle - 'I had it done.' 'He had her killed.'

Most verbs only use one (or two, occasionally) of the forms. I do not know a pattern. I think you will have to look up each word in a dictionary as you use it, until you are used to the different ways to use them.

I caused it to be done.
I caused it be done.
I caused it done.


I got it be done.
I got it done.
I got it to be done.
- very unusual

I let it be done.
I let it done.
I let it to be done.


I had it done.
I had it be done.
I had it to be done.

_____________________________

With an object which is a person or thing doing the action.

Full infinitive - 'I got him to do it.' 'He got her to kill the spider.' This is the most common form.
Base infinitive (or subjunctive) - 'I had him do it.' 'He had her kill the spider.'

*******************
Some notes on your extra examples at the end.
You'll get me killed => you'll cause something to happen which will kill me.
You'll get me be killed => Impossible

Someone talking about cheating in the exam. So, he/she says "I got it done"
I got it done => I got someone to do it (cheat). ('Someone' includes myself.)
I got it(cheat) be done => Impossible.
I can say "I got it done. - Where "it" refers to "cheat"? Yes. It means that someone else cheated for me, or I, myself, cheated with some difficulty.

I got my hair cut. => I got somebody to cut my hair. I caused my hair to be cut (by someone).
I got my hair be cut. => Impossible

A wise person cannot get themselves deceived twice from the same persons. => Impossible - you cannot cause someone else to deceive you. It's illogical.
A wise person cannot get themselves be deceived twice from the same persons. => Impossible - you cannot cause someone else to deceive you. It's illogical.
"Get" (when you 'get something done') means that you do something, some work or effort, and you succeed. You want the action done, so you do something (hire someone, persuade someone, or work on the job yourself) until you have succeeded and the action is finished.
You do not work on causing someone to deceive you.


I would appreciate it if you would keep me informed. => I would appreciate it if you continue to tell me what's happening.
I would appreciate it if you would keep yourself inform me. - impossible
I would appreciate it if you would keep me be informed. => impossible
I would appreciate it if you would keep someone inform me.

Wyrd bið ful aræd - bull!
FROSTY X RIME
Posted: Tuesday, November 6, 2018 6:56:10 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 10/20/2015
Posts: 1,013
Neurons: 11,242
Dragon wrote this:

I got it done => I got someone to do it (cheat). ('Someone' includes myself.)

I will highlight "('someone') includes myself".

Job Done here. ^^



What should be shall be-The fellowship of the ring-
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