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in the world, of the world Options
onsen
Posted: Thursday, October 25, 2018 5:33:35 PM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 9/14/2017
Posts: 237
Neurons: 4,841
Hello,

Quote:
A. Islam
all Muslims and Muslim countries in the world
Islam.

B. Christendom
all the Christian people and countries of the world
Christendom.
…………………………………………………………………………………………………………

C. London is one of the most exciting and fascinating cities in the world.
fascinating.

D. Drug rings operate in most large cities of the world.
ring.
…………………………………………………………………………………………………………

E. Mount Everest, the highest mountain in the world
highest-mountain-in-the-world.

F. This Mountain was discovered in 1852 and is the highest mountain of the world, is named after Sir George Everest, and English surveyor.
Mount Everest.
…………………………………………………………………………………………………………


Q1
Are the phrase 'in the world' and the phrase 'of the world' fundamentally different in meaning?

Q2
In what cases are they interchangeable and not interchangeable?
I suppose they are interchangeable in all the example sentences.


Thank you
Jyrkkä Jätkä
Posted: Thursday, October 25, 2018 5:44:28 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 9/21/2009
Posts: 41,927
Neurons: 417,780
Location: Helsinki, Southern Finland Province, Finland
Practically they could all be interpreted as having about the same meaning, but
with little differences in nuance.

Islam is a religion, not an area or group of countries, nor the Islamic people.

Christendom include the Christian people, and the Christian countries. Anyhow, there are lots of Muslims living in Christendom, so this term is nowadays a bit mercurial.

In your examples C and D you could use both prepositions.


In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.
thar
Posted: Thursday, October 25, 2018 7:05:44 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 7/8/2010
Posts: 17,983
Neurons: 72,942
You have to look at your sources - how reliable are they?
Just because you saw it on the internet doesn't mean you have to pay any attention to its use of English!

Quote:
This Mountain was discovered in 1852 and is the highest mountain of the world, is named after Sir George Everest, and English surveyor.


three things leap out from that sentence

1 it was not discovered in 1852!
I know it is hard to get to, but people had seen it before then! It was surveyed and its height calculated in 1852, when it was discovered to be the highest mountain as yet surveyed.

2 'and English surveyor'.
'and' is wrong, but I will give them the benefit of the doubt of a misprint.

3
He was not English. He was British, but in fact he was born in Wales. A native speaker would not make that confusion between British and English nowadays. Even if they didn't know where he actually came from, they would not make that assumption.

4
He was not just some random English surveyor - he was the Surveyor-General of India (who played a significant part in the the survey of India.)

These people may be great at giving you flights around Everest, but they can't write good English.
It is unnatural to say 'the highest mountain of the world'. However, you would say 'the world's highest mountain.



Islam and Christendom are different concepts, so they are described in different ways. Islam is a religion, so you talk about countries in the world which practice that religion. You could talk about Christian countries in the world, as well, in the right context.

Christendom is a region, a theoretical place - it is those countries that the world 'has' - countries of the world that are (or were - Christendom is no longer a valid concept) Christian. The countries that form, that make up, the Christian world. I think the Muslim equivalent of the old concept of Christendom would be Ummah - the Muslim world.

So any definition of 'Islam' in English that describes it as a group of countries is not using the word the way it is used in English. Again, I don't know where you got that from, but how reliable is your source?

So
Quote:
A. Islam
all Muslims and Muslim countries in the world
Islam.

B. Christendom
all the Christian people and countries of the world
Christendom.


These are not comparable examples. The context is different, so it is reasonable to assume the meaning in these texts is different.


C. London is one of the most exciting and fascinating cities in the world.
fascinating.

D. Drug rings operate in most large cities of the world.
ring.


These are not comparable examples, because the grammatical structures are different.
London is a city. It is in England, it is in Europe. You would not say it is in the world, but you would say it is (one of) the most exciting cities in the world.
The selection is from all the cities in the world.
It is like saying this is the biggest cheesesburger in the world.

But
drug rings operate in most towns, in most regions, in most cities, in most countries that the world has. Ie there are no cities that the world 'has' that do not have drug gangs. It is not that they are in the world, it is that they are of the world - they constitute the world, they make it. All the countries of the world - all the countries that form the world, have drugs gangs.

It is a bit like saying the cheese is the best part of the cheeseburger.
…………………………………………………………………………………………………………

E. Mount Everest, the highest mountain in the world
highest-mountain-in-the-world.

F. This Mountain was discovered in 1852 and is the highest mountain of the world, is named after Sir George Everest, and English surveyor.
Mount Everest.

See above - this is just bad English. I would not expect many people to say 'the biggest mountain of the world'.
…………………………………………………………………………………………………………


Q1
Are the phrase 'in the world' and the phrase 'of the world' fundamentally different in meaning?

They do have different meanings. 'in the world' is the limit of the selection to only those things in the world, not outside it. But 'of the world' means the things that make up the world.

Q2
In what cases are they interchangeable and not interchangeable?
I suppose they are interchangeable in all the example sentences.

No, because these are not comparable sentences.
(Your fragments on Islam and Christendom are not sentences so it is impossible to guess what they were saying. All I can say is that the concepts they are describing are completely different, so the context may very well be different.

I hope this makes sense. I am aware it is a bit disorganised as I wrote it in pieces.
onsen
Posted: Friday, October 26, 2018 2:41:25 AM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 9/14/2017
Posts: 237
Neurons: 4,841
thar wrote:

Q1
Are the phrase 'in the world' and the phrase 'of the world' fundamentally different in meaning?

They do have different meanings. 'in the world' is the limit of the selection to only those things in the world, not outside it. But 'of the world' means the things that make up the world.




Thank you very much, thar, for your reply.
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