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trump: das Endspiel Options
Dynamina
Posted: Wednesday, October 10, 2018 7:22:44 AM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 10/31/2015
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should donald trump be re-elected in 2020 as president of the USA, his mission is to repeal the 22nd amendment to the constitution...this amendment is the one which limits the ‘reign’ of USA presidents to two periods of four years in office. his success of appointing brett kavanaugh (who is now safely in trump’s pocket) to the supreme court causing a shift to the right of the court, fits perfectly his plan to be president-for-life.

on the other hand, if he is loses the re-election, then his successor is gonna be subjected to a lot of abuse and will be his new whipping boy/girl replacing Obama and Hillary.

Chazlee
Posted: Wednesday, October 10, 2018 9:12:24 AM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 7/24/2016
Posts: 443
Neurons: 4,214
Dynamina wrote:
should donald trump be re-elected in 2020 as president of the USA, his mission is to repeal the 22nd amendment to the constitution...this amendment is the one which limits the ‘reign’ of USA presidents to two periods of four years in office. his success of appointing brett kavanaugh (who is now safely in trump’s pocket) to the supreme court causing a shift to the right of the court, fits perfectly his plan to be president-for-life.

on the other hand, if he is loses the re-election, then his successor is gonna be subjected to a lot of abuse and will be his new whipping boy/girl replacing Obama and Hillary.



That will never happen. I am curious to know where you got this information. If he is reelected, and that is a big "if" due to the unpopularity of Trump, he will only be there for a 2nd term maximum. Americans just do not want a president for life, or one who keeps the job indefinitely. Actually, Americans are not really fond of political dynasties either, which is why Jeb Bush had such a difficult task when he tried to secure the nomination of the Republican Party against Trump and others. It would be quite futile for Trump to even try such a maneuver as repealing the 22nd Amendment.

As for Kavanaugh being in "Trump's pocket," I don't sense that at all. Actually, since he has got the job for life, he does not have to show an allegiance to anyone, although I am sure he sees and may always see Trump in a favorable light.

Of course, Trump will happily attack anyone who tries to stand in his way of being reelected, but that is just Trump being Trump. He's a very competitive person who will never just walk away from his current position when it ends. So, he will run again, but, if he wins, I think he would gladly leave the position because then he will believe that he did just as good as the other people whom he despises, Clinton, Obama and Bush, did.

Peace.


“I regret that the press treats me so badly.” Donald Trump.
Wilmar (USA)
Posted: Wednesday, October 10, 2018 10:39:21 AM

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Location: Vinton, Iowa, United States
TRUMP 2020!

Trump is FAR more popular than he is given credit for here! You're spending too much time listening to the vocal minority and the whining snowflakes.
Chazlee
Posted: Wednesday, October 10, 2018 11:13:32 AM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 7/24/2016
Posts: 443
Neurons: 4,214
Wilmar (USA) wrote:
TRUMP 2020!

Trump is FAR more popular than he is given credit for here! You're spending too much time listening to the vocal minority and the whining snowflakes.


What exactly makes you believe that the majority of Americans support Trump? Oh, right, I forgot. Trump told you that so it must be true. BTW, since you are getting all your information from one man, Trump, doesn't that mean you are the one who is actually "spending too much time listening to the vocal minority?"



“I regret that the press treats me so badly.” Donald Trump.
isaaac
Posted: Wednesday, October 10, 2018 3:39:17 PM
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Location: Miami, Florida, United States
Get on the Bus Chaz,or Under.... your Minority is phreaking shriller witches,vocalizing on Demand.... Trump All the Way....
Hope123
Posted: Wednesday, October 10, 2018 5:15:41 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 3/23/2015
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Location: Burlington, Ontario, Canada
There's always a first time - I agree with Wilmar! Trump and his supporter numbers should not be dismissed.

And Dynamina may have a point as well.

Trump is getting more and more powerful. He has the DOJ, the courts/SCOTUS, the House, the Senate, and the media under his control. Kavanaugh already signalled his support for not indicting presidents.

Trump spins, lies, and ENJOYS (what do psychologists call that?) attacking anyone who opposes him, signalling his desire for chants of "Lock her up", now targeting two other women. (Yeah, nobody respects women more than he does. Right.) He says whatever is expedient in the moment and supporters believe him. The point being that it is easier to win when you smear opponents and are not limited to facts. Edited : Not to mention gerrymandering favoring Repubs and some states like Georgia are purging voters, according to reports and people on Twitter complaining they are gone after voting many years.

Although there are a lot of disgusted old-school Republicans, and many women tweeting their switch to the Democrats, especially after Kavanaugh, there are still many Trump supporters tweeting their sentiments of "best president ever" citing the judges, the Supreme Court, NAFTA, Iran, and N Korea. Of course they also mention the economy - and although it has taken off with the relaxation of environmental and financial rules, they give no credit to the fact he inherited a strengthening economy, nor that the regulations were put there to prevent a 2008 recession again. I don't know how many have investments in the rising stock market, but you do need extra money to begin with to invest.


I don't block people who disgree with me because it is important to hear what they say. Opponents should listen and plan strategies.

So Trump supporters will not be changing their minds unless the economy starts showing - prominently - the economic changes which have already started because of trade policies and tariffs. They would need to start hearing about the facts that wages are down, that corporations mostly did not pass on their huge tax breaks to workers, that inflation is at a 6 yr high which is really a tax, and that well-known companies such as Harley-Davidson, Mid-Continent Nail, REC Silicon, Solar Energy Industries, General Motors, BMW, and Volvo etc. are stopping growth plans, laying off, moving plants overseas, or are even fearing going out of business. A study by the U.S. Chamber of Commerce says “recent and proposed” trade actions by the Trump administration threaten as many as 2.6 million American jobs and will “stymie our economic resurgence.”

Ford Motor just announced that it lost $1B and will be laying off workers because China retaliated to Trump's tariffs.

And when prices of cars and everything start rising for consumers because of Trump's tariffs, or if they get laid off, maybe they will take notice. Canada and China planned their retaliatory tariffs to target the states Trump won.

If his supporters have been paying attention they should know the already huge deficit has been doubled.

What they don't know when they think NAFTA is a big US win, is that the US corporations lost Chapter 11 in NAFTA (a biggie -corps can no longer sue govt and they will no longer get millions from Canada ), Chapter 19, the removal of which was a deal breaker for Canada, was kept (arbitration and not US courts making decisions), and Canadians had already voted no to rBGH (Bovine Growth Hormone) and antibiotics/pus in our milk. So many are already vowing not to buy US milk. Therefore even though Trump got his 3 point-something access to the CDN market, it may not be all he hoped for. (The dairy market was what Trump was really after, why he was so nasty to Trudeau and threatened to ruin Canada with auto tariffs, along with thus targeting the already hurting US auto market.) The other reason many Canadians are vowing no US made products and trips to US, is that they feel betrayed by their supposed friend treating Saudi Arabia, Israel, and Russia better. It may not mean much to the big US economy, but it means a lot to them and CDN supermarket shelves show consumers are already voting with their pocketbooks.


Few thought Trump would win in 2016. Because of what I saw here on the Forum and Twitter, I hoped I was wrong in fearing he'd win, but I wasn't.

So if the Dems want a blue wave to get rid of some of these 80+ year-old white males who are only interested in power, they'd better get more Taylor Swifts out there getting the young registered and out voting at midterms and 2020.

The past is to be respected/acknowledged, not worshipped. It is in our future we will find our greatness. Pierre Trudeau
Chazlee
Posted: Wednesday, October 10, 2018 10:19:08 PM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 7/24/2016
Posts: 443
Neurons: 4,214
Hope123 wrote:
There's always a first time - I agree with Wilmar! Trump and his supporter numbers should not be dismissed.

The problem is that Wilmar and others like him are saying they believe Trump will win. I agree that based on the fact that Trump supporters are not the brightest people around they should not be dismissed. Also, many who verbally oppose Trump do not always take the time to vote. So, if you "agree with Wilmar," then you are, in effect, saying Trump will win, and that is hardly a forgone conclusion at this point in the game.

And Dynamina may have a point as well.

Exactly what point is that? Trump will attack future Dems who get into office? Ok, well we all know by now that is his modus operandi. As far as Dynamina assertion that Trump's plan is to try to repeal the 22nd Amendment, where is the evidence? Would he love to be President for Life? Possibly and maybe probably. Yet, please share with me any evidence he plans or desires to do that.

Trump is getting more and more powerful. He has the DOJ, the courts/SCOTUS, the House, the Senate, and the media under his control. Kavanaugh already signalled his support for not indicting presidents.

Trump spins, lies, and ENJOYS (what do psychologists call that?) attacking anyone who opposes him, signalling his desire for chants of "Lock her up", now targeting two other women. (Yeah, nobody respects women more than he does. Right.) He says whatever is expedient in the moment and supporters believe him. The point being that it is easier to win when you smear opponents and are not limited to facts. Edited : Not to mention gerrymandering favoring Repubs and some states like Georgia are purging voters, according to reports and people on Twitter complaining they are gone after voting many years.

Although there are a lot of disgusted old-school Republicans, and many women tweeting their switch to the Democrats, especially after Kavanaugh, there are still many Trump supporters tweeting their sentiments of "best president ever" citing the judges, the Supreme Court, NAFTA, Iran, and N Korea.

This shows why we should not place much trust in Tweets as an indication of how most Americans really feel.

Of course they also mention the economy - and although it has taken off with the relaxation of environmental and financial rules, they give no credit to the fact he inherited a strengthening economy, nor that the regulations were put there to prevent a 2008 recession again. I don't know how many have investments in the rising stock market, but you do need extra money to begin with to invest.


I don't block people who disgree with me because it is important to hear what they say. Opponents should listen and plan strategies.

So Trump supporters will not be changing their minds unless the economy starts showing - prominently - the economic changes which have already started because of trade policies and tariffs. They would need to start hearing about the facts that wages are down, that corporations mostly did not pass on their huge tax breaks to workers, that inflation is at a 6 yr high which is really a tax, and that well-known companies such as Harley-Davidson, Mid-Continent Nail, REC Silicon, Solar Energy Industries, General Motors, BMW, and Volvo etc. are stopping growth plans, laying off, moving plants overseas, or are even fearing going out of business. A study by the U.S. Chamber of Commerce says “recent and proposed” trade actions by the Trump administration threaten as many as 2.6 million American jobs and will “stymie our economic resurgence.”

Ford Motor just announced that it lost $1B and will be laying off workers because China retaliated to Trump's tariffs.

And when prices of cars and everything start rising for consumers because of Trump's tariffs, or if they get laid off, maybe they will take notice. Canada and China planned their retaliatory tariffs to target the states Trump won.

If his supporters have been paying attention they should know the already huge deficit has been doubled.

What they don't know when they think NAFTA is a big US win, is that the US corporations lost Chapter 11 in NAFTA (a biggie -corps can no longer sue govt and they will no longer get millions from Canada ), Chapter 19, the removal of which was a deal breaker for Canada, was kept (arbitration and not US courts making decisions), and Canadians had already voted no to rBGH (Bovine Growth Hormone) and antibiotics/pus in our milk. So many are already vowing not to buy US milk. Therefore even though Trump got his 3 point-something access to the CDN market, it may not be all he hoped for. (The dairy market was what Trump was really after, why he was so nasty to Trudeau and threatened to ruin Canada with auto tariffs, along with thus targeting the already hurting US auto market.) The other reason many Canadians are vowing no US made products and trips to US, is that they feel betrayed by their supposed friend treating Saudi Arabia, Israel, and Russia better. It may not mean much to the big US economy, but it means a lot to them and CDN supermarket shelves show consumers are already voting with their pocketbooks.

Many Trump supporters choose to remain blissfully ignorant to the fact that Trump's time in office has not helped make their life better, and it never will. They love his get tough rhetoric, and his bumper-sticker sayings, which, again, have done nothing and will do nothing to affect their lives in a positive way. His tariffs are hurting America, but many of his most ardent supporters do not realize this. They engage in "willful blindness," and as long as Trump can keep blaming others for his own incompetence, they are happy to go along with him. One day they may wake up from their slumber and see that their beloved leader has done nothing for them or America, but it's unlikely that will ever happen.

Few thought Trump would win in 2016. Because of what I saw here on the Forum and Twitter, I hoped I was wrong in fearing he'd win, but I wasn't.

So if the Dems want a blue wave to get rid of some of these 80+ year-old white males who are only interested in power, they'd better get more Taylor Swifts out there getting the young registered and out voting at midterms and 2020.


The Democrats need a person who people can get excited about, like they felt about Obama, or they will likely lose again. Of course, this doesn't mean the Republicans will support Trump, but it may happen. So it is quite possible that the Democrats could lose again unless a viable candidate emerges who people want to see challenge Trump. At the moment, I do not see such a person, and that is Trump's best hope for reelection.

Peace.


“I regret that the press treats me so badly.” Donald Trump.
Hope123
Posted: Thursday, October 11, 2018 8:43:23 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 3/23/2015
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Location: Burlington, Ontario, Canada
Wilmar (USA) wrote:
TRUMP 2020!

Trump is FAR more popular than he is given credit for here! You're spending too much time listening to the vocal minority and the whining snowflakes.


Hi Chazlee. I agreed only with what Wilmar said here. I did not agree I think Tr will win. My post in general was saying that I fear it but hope it will not happen. .



The past is to be respected/acknowledged, not worshipped. It is in our future we will find our greatness. Pierre Trudeau
Hope123
Posted: Thursday, October 11, 2018 9:04:58 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 3/23/2015
Posts: 8,413
Neurons: 48,167
Location: Burlington, Ontario, Canada
Dynamina wrote:
should donald trump be re-elected in 2020 as president of the USA, his mission is to repeal the 22nd amendment to the constitution...this amendment is the one which limits the ‘reign’ of USA presidents to two periods of four years in office. his success of appointing brett kavanaugh (who is now safely in trump’s pocket) to the supreme court causing a shift to the right of the court, fits perfectly his plan to be president-for-life.

on the other hand, if he is loses the re-election, then his successor is gonna be subjected to a lot of abuse and will be his new whipping boy/girl replacing Obama and Hillary.


Hi again Chazlee.

Here I said Dynamina may have a point. I have and need no proof for a maybe. I have heard Trump's musings, however, that make me think it's a possibility. I would not be saying "may" about how he treats anyone who opposes him because we all know exactly how he does that.

Also, tweets are of course not to be trusted, but the numbers of similar sentiments do give an indication.

I agree pretty much with the rest you said, but hope you are not being too positive so that the needed work is not done to get the Democratic vote out and to get a fresh dynamic voice as leader.

My whole post can be summed up by saying: Dems can't get complacent and instead of attacking him, they should be using some of the talking points I mentioned about some actual drawbacks of his policies. Attack policies. They don't care about character as long as he gets the courts set their way and regulations down so it is easier to make profits. Which he has done.

I was thinking yesterday that fallout from the tariffs and China trade war would not happen much before the midterms. Then the stock market fell over 800 points by closing last night so we have to wait and and see if this was just an anomaly or as a couple of financial pundits asked: Is this the beginning of a recession?



The past is to be respected/acknowledged, not worshipped. It is in our future we will find our greatness. Pierre Trudeau
Hope123
Posted: Thursday, October 11, 2018 9:19:20 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 3/23/2015
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Location: Burlington, Ontario, Canada
Wilmar (USA) wrote:
TRUMP 2020!

Trump is FAR more popular than he is given credit for here! You're spending too much time listening to the vocal minority and the whining snowflakes.


Hi Wilmar.

I mentioned that I see just as many pro Trump Twitter posts as I do Democratic tweets urging people to vote. I also mentioned what it is Trumpers like about what Trump has done.

So it is only fair that I share equal concepts.

Here are a couple of reactions on Twitter by Democrats who are fed up being called "snowflakes" as you did here. You also already know what I think of "name calling" and also of labelling whole groups.

I especially liked the line - "Winter is coming". A nice turn on words.











The past is to be respected/acknowledged, not worshipped. It is in our future we will find our greatness. Pierre Trudeau
Drag0nspeaker
Posted: Thursday, October 11, 2018 10:18:26 AM

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I'm neither liberal nor conservative (by American definitions - I'm both by normal English definitions).
I'm not a Democrat, nor a Republican - but I believe that democracy and republicanism are two pretty good political systems, which are not used in the USA (which is something between a plutocracy and an oligarchy to all appearances).
I'm not a snowflake - I was born more than forty years too early for the snowflake generation, and I have no objection to hearing opinions which disagree with mine (but I'm not about to change my mind just because someone shouts an opposing slogan at me).

My opinion, for what it's worth, is that there's something inherently wrong with a system which can give the people a choice between two possible leaders - each of whom is hated by almost half of the population.

I didn't see anyone seriously considering "What policies do these guys have?", "What would be the best plan for the country to follow in order to expand in the next four years?"
What I did see is "I'll vote for Hillary because I hate Trump's misogyny", "I'll vote for Trump because I hate Hillary's hypocrisy".

I saw that both of them lied through their teeth - and their supporters just ignored it and carried on.
But they're both backed by MONEY - big money.
And both would work to give their backers more money.


Wyrd bið ful aræd - bull!
FounDit
Posted: Thursday, October 11, 2018 12:31:00 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 9/19/2011
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Drag0nspeaker wrote:
I'm neither liberal nor conservative (by American definitions - I'm both by normal English definitions).
I'm not a Democrat, nor a Republican - but I believe that democracy and republicanism are two pretty good political systems, which are not used in the USA (which is something between a plutocracy and an oligarchy to all appearances).
That is fairly accurate, especially since the Founders were, for the most part, all men of families who could afford a good education for their children. It was from the educated class that such men knew of history and the weaknesses of human nature, and felt the need to design a system that took those failings into account. However, no system is perfect. Human nature will see to that.

I'm not a snowflake - I was born more than forty years too early for the snowflake generation, and I have no objection to hearing opinions which disagree with mine (but I'm not about to change my mind just because someone shouts an opposing slogan at me).
I concur, though I sometimes wonder what our pioneer ancestors would think of the progeny they spawned who, on today's college campuses, require "safe" spaces and "crying rooms" to vent their hurt feelings when hearing opinions and ideas that they don't agree with, or that they can't understand.

My opinion, for what it's worth, is that there's something inherently wrong with a system which can give the people a choice between two possible leaders - each of whom is hated by almost half of the population.
It wasn't always like this. For most of my life, we analyzed the positions and ideas of the nominees and their party, and chose accordingly. It seems to have simply been an accident of our founding that two parties eventually became the norm. We, at several times in our history, had several political parties, but seemed to always wind up with just two. I think that may have been the result of the pure, primitive survival thinking that accompanied those who established and built the country (that thinking can be seen in some of our early slogans such as "Live Free or Die", "Give me Liberty, or Give Me Death", "Don't tread on Me", etc.) There was an impetus to create of get left behind; to work, or do without; a kind of Manichean mindset.

I didn't see anyone seriously considering "What policies do these guys have?", "What would be the best plan for the country to follow in order to expand in the next four years?"
What I did see is "I'll vote for Hillary because I hate Trump's misogyny", "I'll vote for Trump because I hate Hillary's hypocrisy".
Now this really surprises me because this was not the core of the motivation for voting for Trump. The two things you mention were merely "talking points" for the simple-minded.

Trump promised to lower taxes, bring back jobs, cut regulations, improve trade deals, abandon NAFTA, abandon the Iran deal, renegotiate positions with NATO, secure the border, and a host of other promises which were to make America great again for our people, and which, to this point, he has kept as much as possible, even with many (phony, IMO) Republicans working against him. I see no lies in any of that. He's done it, or is in the process of doing it.

I saw that both of them lied through their teeth - and their supporters just ignored it and carried on.
But they're both backed by MONEY - big money.
And both would work to give their backers more money.
Trump didn't need the money of backers - he had/has his own. He doesn't even collect the salary he is entitled to as President. He was, however, supported by millions of our citizens who wanted what he promised to do. And because he is fulfilling his promises, that is why his supporters will not abandon him - Democrats be damned, and by that I mean ignored and/or defeated.



We should look to the past to learn from it, not destroy our future because of it — FounDit
Drag0nspeaker
Posted: Thursday, October 11, 2018 1:10:25 PM

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Thanks - bit clearer . . .

This stuff about the college kids really does my head in.
When I was at uni we fought "the status-quo" and all that (I think all late teens/early twenties do that) and we expected to have people oppose what we said.

Of course, without going back to college I can't really see what it's like but from what I see from interviews with students, the news (always rather doubtful) and the investigation by the Joint Committee on Human Rights into claims of universities blocking free speech, it's just out-of-control. SOMEONE (probably a small group) is manipulating the students and students' unions into cutting free speech - not just inflammatory hate-speech, but normal opposing views.
The Joint Committee is generally liberal politically (not left-wing, that's something completely different from liberal) - it is concerned with Human Rights, after all.

A couple of paragraphs from the summary say:
Quote:
“Freedom of speech within the law should mean just that, and it is vital in universities. Evidence to the joint committee on human rights showed that there is a problem of inhibition of free speech in universities.

“While media reporting has focused on students inhibiting free speech – and in our report we urge universities to take action to prevent that – free speech is also inhibited by university bureaucracy and restrictive guidance from the Charity Commission.”

The report clarified some of this as being the University Administration setting rules to protect themselves from any chance of accusations under the new Terrorism laws - and students' unions setting rules to protect themselves from losing their charity status under the Charity Commissions rules about being apolitical.

It seems the students in general are not 'snowflakes' - overly sensitive and ready to cry for a day over the news on another continent. It is a FEW - very noisy - ones who then make the university authorities set restrictive rules by threatening to report to the police and Charities Commission.


Wyrd bið ful aræd - bull!
BobShilling
Posted: Thursday, October 11, 2018 3:04:07 PM
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I, a leftwing Trump-loathing Brit, don't want to submit one of those posts that are full of quotes and my responses, so I'll just give my thoughts Those not interested can simply ignore this and move on to the next post when it appears.

Trump is not particularly unpopular in the USA. According to this site, his approval rating at this stage of his presidency is not significantly lower than that of five of his post-WWII predecessors and higher than that of one. Whether we snowflakes like it or not, and despite everything he has said and done, he retains the support of a large minority of the electorate. Don't forget that he was legally and constitution elected president by a large minority of those who voted.

As has been noted, Kavanaugh now has the job for life. Trump may have the bigger ego, but he could be out in just over two years. Dangerous as he may for liberal hopes, Kavanaugh does not appear to me to be the sort of person to let gratitude get in the way of his own opinions. Illiberal he may be, but he won't be in Trump's pocket.

I don't agree that Trump has the DOJ, the courts/SCOTUS, the House, the Senate, and the media under his control. It seems to me that the (very) conservative wing of the Republican party has gained/is gaining control of at least some of these institutions. These people recognised in 2016 that Trump, whose views largely coincided with their own, was far more popular and electable than many of his opponents thought. I believe that if Trump ever came up with something these people really did not like, he'd find that the House and Senate majorities and the the conservative majority in the Supreme Court would turn out to be more Republican than Trumpist.

Trump may lie more blatantly and often than most of his predecessors and opponents. But so long as he delivers, is seen to be trying to deliver, or is seen to be failing because of corrupt and unpatriotic supporters of Criminal Hillary and the fake news spread by the failing press, this does not matter. He may have groped a few women but hell, haven't most of us men done that (or wanted to) at some time? And heavens, what does it matter to us women so long as he protects the rights of unborn children in the wombs of promiscuous godless *****s? We know that males have their sordid sides, but so long as they do good things, we can forgive them.

Unfortunately, leading Democrats in 2016 were not so sharp. They did not see how unpopular Clinton was with many ordinary voters. And their own conservatism led them to oppose, with everything at their disposal, Sanders, who did manage to resonate with many ordinary voters. Had the might of the Democrat machine got behind Sanders rather than the establishment figure of Clinton, he might have won.

Until the Democrats can see that laughing hilariously at the regular mockery of Trump on such programmes as Saturday Night Live achieves little, and can come up with candidates and policies that excite ordinary voters, the midterms could turn out to be a disaster for them. Those Republican candidates who are publicly supporting Trump and his policies and defending his every tweet are not idiots when it comes to thinking about their chances of (re) election.

Tha's quite enough for now.
Chazlee
Posted: Thursday, October 11, 2018 7:23:50 PM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 7/24/2016
Posts: 443
Neurons: 4,214
Hope123 wrote:
[quote=Dynamina]should donald trump be re-elected in 2020 as president of the USA, his mission is to repeal the 22nd amendment to the constitution...this amendment is the one which limits the ‘reign’ of USA presidents to two periods of four years in office. his success of appointing brett kavanaugh (who is now safely in trump’s pocket) to the supreme court causing a shift to the right of the court, fits perfectly his plan to be president-for-life.

on the other hand, if he is loses the re-election, then his successor is gonna be subjected to a lot of abuse and will be his new whipping boy/girl replacing Obama and Hillary.


Hi again Chazlee.

Here I said Dynamina may have a point. I have and need no proof for a maybe. I have heard Trump's musings, however, that make me think it's a possibility. I would not be saying "may" about how he treats anyone who opposes him because we all know exactly how he does that.

Hi Hope
Sorry if I misunderstood your meaning. You are right that you don't need proof for a maybe.
Peace




“I regret that the press treats me so badly.” Donald Trump.
Hope123
Posted: Friday, October 12, 2018 12:48:47 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 3/23/2015
Posts: 8,413
Neurons: 48,167
Location: Burlington, Ontario, Canada
Hi Bob. You are correct that candidates are not idiots. They are also afraid of him and his tweets because of his base.That's why several Republicans who can't hold their noses and support him are retiring. He controls all their futures.

Maybe after the midterms if the Republican party maintains majority, the Republicans will start to oppose him if they don't like something he is doing. But so far they are too afraid because of his base to do much but voice disapproval when he does something outlandish or impulsive. Fear of him and his name calling tweets is why I said he has control. And I have read that he believes he has every right to control the DOJ but I have no idea of the American constitution. He can fire them for sure. And half the population thinks the mainstream media is fake news and pay attention only to his Fox.

It will also depend a lot on the economy. Money is always the bottom line. But I have read polls of high percentages of Americans wanting good healthcare, even universality. Also there are thousands of purged voters who will have trouble voting in Georgia and I think there's another state that did it too. Is it November yet?

I was perplexed before so thanks for the perspective in red of why women and Evangelicals support him in spite of what he does and says.

If that's the kind of man and president 50% of Americans like, then all the more power to them. As long as he keeps his fingers out of Canada now (although Governments still have to ratify NAFTA 2) and doesn't start any wars, it is the American people who will have to live with his decisions, policies, trade tariffs, and the consequences of his rhetoric. Several states are already trying to control women and their bodies but they don't seem to think Roe v Wade is a problem. But if it does come up, women will have to deal with that again.

Canadians have our own problems to deal with the rise of violence, guns, and populism that has increased here dramatically in the last four years or so. But being so closely connected to the US physically and economically, we hope that all the US turmoil will calm down soon, no matter which party has control.

It would be so nice to go back to having my own country run quietly as it used to without all the modern noise these days which seems to be everywhere.

The past is to be respected/acknowledged, not worshipped. It is in our future we will find our greatness. Pierre Trudeau
BobShilling
Posted: Friday, October 12, 2018 5:19:27 AM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 4/1/2018
Posts: 545
Neurons: 3,706
Location: Beroun, Stredocesky, Czech Republic
Hope123 wrote:
Hi Bob. You are correct that candidates are not idiots. They are also afraid of him and his tweets because of his base.That's why several Republicans who can't hold their noses and support him are retiring. He controls all their futures.


I think, and it's only an uninformed opinion, that Trump does not control anybody's future - apart from those in his administration, whom he can sack at will.I don't really think he wants to control anybody or anything. All he wants is to be very rich and adored - and adored for being very rich. Given the choice between being the richest and most adored/respected person in the world and being the President of the USA for four (eight/twelve) years, he would almost certainly have opted for the first. Had there been a candidate in 2016 who guaranteed massive cuts in taxes on the rich, and abolition of all restrictions on the running of businesses, Trump would not have chosen to run; he would have given such a candidate enormous backing. He does not want to make America great; he wants to make America great for Donald Trump.

What we saw in the run-up last election was in some ways the rejection by many voters of both parties. Those with more conservative leanings plumped for Trump, who appeared to stand for of all the things they believed in. The inner circle of the self-interested in the Republican party saw their chance and backed Trump. Those who with less conservative leanings plumped for Sanders, who appeared to stand for of all the things they believed in. The inner circle of the self-interested in the Democrat party were worried about this and backed Clinton.

I fear this begins to sound like a conspiracy theory, but if anyone 'controls' events and people, it is the the rich and powerful. And don't forget the electorate. When crunch time came, a very large minority of the electorate voted for Trump. A majority of voters chose Republican (Trump's party) senators and representative.

And, as long as Democrats mock the President of the United States of America for his hairstyle, skin colour, and tweets, sneer at the great unwashed who are so ignorant and stupid that they their opposition to unrestricted immigration is just racist, their opposition to Roe-Wade is just bigoted creationist/cultist/misogynist, their opposition to socialist medicine is self-destructively insane, etc, then the rich and powerful will get richer and more powerful, and the poor and powerless will vote to become poorer and more powerless.
Chazlee
Posted: Friday, October 12, 2018 10:06:55 AM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 7/24/2016
Posts: 443
Neurons: 4,214
Hope123 wrote:
Hi Bob. You are correct that candidates are not idiots. They are also afraid of him and his tweets because of his base.That's why several Republicans who can't hold their noses and support him are retiring. He controls all their futures.

Maybe after the midterms if the Republican party maintains majority, the Republicans will start to oppose him if they don't like something he is doing. But so far they are too afraid because of his base to do much but voice disapproval when he does something outlandish or impulsive.

There are Republicans who have shown they are not afraid to oppose Trump. While there are many of them who likely do not oppose him due to alienating his supporters, he has been called out by some mainstream Republicans who do not agree with him.

And half the population thinks the mainstream media is fake news and pay attention only to his Fox.

With all due respect, how can you make such a statement about what half the American population thinks about the media? Those "facts" are simply coming out of Trump's strange looking face. If you are saying this about Trump supporters, I would not doubt it, but about the general population? I think you need to be careful when you make such statements since they sound like they come directly from a source like Fox News.


If that's the kind of man and president 50% of Americans like, then all the more power to them. As long as he keeps his fingers out of Canada now (although Governments still have to ratify NAFTA 2) and doesn't start any wars, it is the American people who will have to live with his decisions, policies, trade tariffs, and the consequences of his rhetoric. Several states are already trying to control women and their bodies but they don't seem to think Roe v Wade is a problem. But if it does come up, women will have to deal with that again.

As a Canadian, I am sure you know that what Trump does will certainly affect your country. Your average Canadian who lives close to the border will be forced to deal with Trump's decisions. (I am speaking about those Canadians who drive across the border and shop in the American stores, of which there are many, and who then "smuggle" the goods back home in the trunks of their cars, or those who change their clothing in American parking lots so they can wear their merchandise back to Canada, all without declaring what they have done to the border patrol agents). So, there is no way that Trump's stubby little fingers are going to be kept "out of Canada" because the Canadians keep streaming into the USA (mostly on the weekends, of course.)

Canadians have our own problems to deal with the rise of violence, guns, and populism that has increased here dramatically in the last four years or so. But being so closely connected to the US physically and economically, we hope that all the US turmoil will calm down soon, no matter which party has control.

Please. Canadians bring their problems to the US far more frequently than the other way around. Americans are not rushing to get into Canada at the same rate as you all have been coming across the border. Toronto's own former mayor, the most interesting Rob Ford, was even caught drunk driving in Florida. Canada's problems with "violence and guns" stem from your own immigration and border patrol issues.

It would be so nice to go back to having my own country run quietly as it used to without all the modern noise these days which seems to be everywhere.

May I ask who you believe is causing the "modern noise" in Canada? Again, we can lay a lot of things at Trump's doorstep, but any problems in your great country, and I do think Canada is a wonderful country, started well before Trump put his orange face in the White House. Canada has problems, but it is beyond naiveté to even suggest that Canada's home-grown issues are not negatively affecting America.
Peace.


“I regret that the press treats me so badly.” Donald Trump.
RuthP
Posted: Friday, October 12, 2018 11:40:47 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 6/2/2009
Posts: 5,232
Neurons: 63,618
Location: Drain, Oregon, United States
Chazlee wrote:
Dynamina wrote:
should donald trump be re-elected in 2020 as president of the USA, his mission is to repeal the 22nd amendment to the constitution...this amendment is the one which limits the ‘reign’ of USA presidents to two periods of four years in office. his success of appointing brett kavanaugh (who is now safely in trump’s pocket) to the supreme court causing a shift to the right of the court, fits perfectly his plan to be president-for-life.

on the other hand, if he is loses the re-election, then his successor is gonna be subjected to a lot of abuse and will be his new whipping boy/girl replacing Obama and Hillary.



That will never happen. I am curious to know where you got this information. If he is reelected, and that is a big "if" due to the unpopularity of Trump, he will only be there for a 2nd term maximum. Americans just do not want a president for life, or one who keeps the job indefinitely. Actually, Americans are not really fond of political dynasties either, which is why Jeb Bush had such a difficult task when he tried to secure the nomination of the Republican Party against Trump and others. It would be quite futile for Trump to even try such a maneuver as repealing the 22nd Amendment.

As for Kavanaugh being in "Trump's pocket," I don't sense that at all. Actually, since he has got the job for life, he does not have to show an allegiance to anyone, although I am sure he sees and may always see Trump in a favorable light.

Of course, Trump will happily attack anyone who tries to stand in his way of being reelected, but that is just Trump being Trump. He's a very competitive person who will never just walk away from his current position when it ends. So, he will run again, but, if he wins, I think he would gladly leave the position because then he will believe that he did just as good as the other people whom he despises, Clinton, Obama and Bush, did.

Peace.

I, too, would like to know the source of the claim. It is hyperbole such as this that makes casual use of the Internet for news such a problem.
1) Mr. Trump may, indeed, decide to run again. It is obvious he likes the cachet of being president.
2) It is unclear he is equally fond of being in a position where his actions are under scrutiny all the time, and it is not at all obvious he actually likes the work.
3) Even Mr. Trump's most enthusiastic supporters in Congress would not support repeal.
4) Repealing an amendment is much the same as making an amendment in the first place. It requires the following:
****A two-thirds vote of the House and a two-thirds the Senate to propose the amendment.
****Or, a constitutional convention may be called by the states: this requires two thirds of the states to call for the convention.
****Once an amendment is proposed by one of these methods, the legislatures of at least three-quarters of the states must pass the amendment.

Really? You think Mr. Trump could get this done? There is only one amendment that has ever been repealed: Prohibition. Not exactly a government-shaking issue. My neighbor who thought GW Bush would declare martial law to avoid leaving office after his second term made more sense (none) than this repeal-the-22nd (negative) does.

The promulgation of this kind of idiocy is an indictment of the teaching of history and government at all levels of education.
Hope123
Posted: Friday, October 12, 2018 2:12:32 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 3/23/2015
Posts: 8,413
Neurons: 48,167
Location: Burlington, Ontario, Canada
Chazlee wrote:
Hope123 wrote:
Hi Bob. You are correct that candidates are not idiots. They are also afraid of him and his tweets because of his base.That's why several Republicans who can't hold their noses and support him are retiring. He controls all their futures.

Maybe after the midterms if the Republican party maintains majority, the Republicans will start to oppose him if they don't like something he is doing. But so far they are too afraid because of his base to do much but voice disapproval when he does something outlandish or impulsive.

There are Republicans who have shown they are not afraid to oppose Trump. While there are many of them who likely do not oppose him due to alienating his supporters, he has been called out by some mainstream Republicans who do not agree with him.

True. Start to oppose him more.

And half the population thinks the mainstream media is fake news and pay attention only to his Fox.

With all due respect, how can you make such a statement about what half the American population thinks about the media? Those "facts" are simply coming out of Trump's strange looking face. If you are saying this about Trump supporters, I would not doubt it, but about the general population? I think you need to be careful when you make such statements since they sound like they come directly from a source like Fox News.


You are right. I meant that Trump got almost half of the popular vote. So maybe instead of population I should have said voters.

If that's the kind of man and president 50% of Americans like, then all the more power to them. As long as he keeps his fingers out of Canada now (although Governments still have to ratify NAFTA 2) and doesn't start any wars, it is the American people who will have to live with his decisions, policies, trade tariffs, and the consequences of his rhetoric. Several states are already trying to control women and their bodies but they don't seem to think Roe v Wade is a problem. But if it does come up, women will have to deal with that again.

As a Canadian, I am sure you know that what Trump does will certainly affect your country. Your average Canadian who lives close to the border will be forced to deal with Trump's decisions. (I am speaking about those Canadians who drive across the border and shop in the American stores, of which there are many, and who then "smuggle" the goods back home in the trunks of their cars, or those who change their clothing in American parking lots so they can wear their merchandise back to Canada, all without declaring what they have done to the border patrol agents). So, there is no way that Trump's stubby little fingers are going to be kept "out of Canada" because the Canadians keep streaming into the USA (mostly on the weekends, of course.)

All I'm saying is that it is really Americans who are affected, and if they are happy that's the ballgame. In countries with elections there will always be one group or another who are unhappy. Once NAFTA is ratified I'm hoping Trump will forget all about "puny little" Canada and its feminist leader.

As for Canadians being stupid enough to risk getting caught smuggling, they deserve the fines or whatever they get.

However, I don't know why you bring this up, because smuggling US goods into Canada does NOT affect the US or tariffs. It does help US border stores and their bottom lines. They love it. It is Revenue Canada smugglers are cheating.

And I doubt it happens as much as Trump implied. As for trips to the US when it costs 35 cents or more on every dollar now, I have no idea how many weekend border crossers there are. Besides shoes are the only American product that I ever found to be cheaper when we wintered in Fl.


Canadians have our own problems to deal with the rise of violence, guns, and populism that has increased here dramatically in the last four years or so. But being so closely connected to the US physically and economically, we hope that all the US turmoil will calm down soon, no matter which party has control. What this means is that we have enough problems of our own but all the turmoil in the US affects us emotionally too because we know the elephant just rolled over in its sleep and we have no vote. (Just a saying.)

Please. Canadians bring their problems to the US far more frequently than the other way around. Americans are not rushing to get into Canada at the same rate as you all have been coming across the border. Toronto's own former mayor, the most interesting Rob Ford, was even caught drunk driving in Florida. Canada's problems with "violence and guns" stem from your own immigration and border patrol issues.
True about the CDN gun problem being a border issue of trying to stop smuggling from the US. Our RCMP friend who has been on that detail told us how difficult it is when guns are so easily obtained in the US and yet they still need to keep the border moving. (There is nothing wrong with our immigration policies. Our laws allow us to pick the best immigrants.)

As for the late Rob Ford being DUI in FL, I don't doubt your one example. What other problems you are thinking of I have no idea. Other than spending millions every year keeping your tourist industry and economies going! Whistle Whistle Whistle

We maintained a house, paid property tax and later rental fees. We paid sales tax, bought groceries etc. Last trip we spent over $20,000 USD for a three month stay. And most condo rental rates were higher if you wanted golf and rates are exorbitant on the water. Multiply that by the many snowbirds who go elsewhere now.

Although I believe it was not only the dollar that kept many out of the US since Trump because rates in other countries such as Mexico where we went are also in USD. The mass shootings are another reason and the changing weather is also a drawback. I forget the number but the last year we went to FL about 5 tornadoes crossed over where we stayed in one month and the Red Tide kept tourists from the beaches. When your dollar is so much higher Americans do come to Canada. In fact we met several of our longtime American friends from Buffalo and Orchard Park while vacationing in Northern Ontario years ago and they still come back every summer. Some own cottages and property.


It would be so nice to go back to having my own country run quietly as it used to without all the modern noise these days which seems to be everywhere.

May I ask who you believe is causing the "modern noise" in Canada? Again, we can lay a lot of things at Trump's doorstep, but any problems in your great country, and I do think Canada is a wonderful country, started well before Trump put his orange face in the White House. Canada has problems, but it is beyond naiveté to even suggest that Canada's home-grown issues are not negatively affecting America.
Peace.




I don't know where the noise comes from. Probably many sources. Some of it started over ten years ago with the feeling in the western provinces that Ontario and Quebec run the show. They started a Reform Party led by Stephen Harper that usurped (a betrayal long story) the Progressive Conservatives I used to vote for. Besides assaults on our democracy, Harper in 2014-16 was trying to stir up Muslim problems like Trump. I just noticed it increasing the last four years or so. I did not say it is all Trump who brings the foul wind north, but I know he has had an effect on giving approval to those who hate who are now crawling out from under rocks - a White Supremacist is even running for mayor of Toronto, albeit on the fringes. But they are out there in Canada too.

But I think mainly it is the digital age, where groups form on social media, that increases the noise. The police are currently issuing reports about several new hate groups that were formed like that.

But the noise I mostly mean is the tribalism that is happening now like in the States (BTW - not saying caused by the States, but ideas do come north.) We used to have a Loyal Opposition. Now they are all just party not country oriented. That showed up during the NAFTA negotiations when there were lapses in solidarity with spin and lies.


All I ever meant to say was that his opponents should not underestimate Trump again because he does not play by the usual rules.

::

Ruth, thanks for clearing it up for us and assuring us how hard it would be for Trump to take power for life! Great news.


The past is to be respected/acknowledged, not worshipped. It is in our future we will find our greatness. Pierre Trudeau
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