The Free Dictionary  
mailing list For webmasters
Welcome Guest Forum Search | Active Topics | Members

General Secretary, Secretary General(Secretary-General), Executive Secretary (Post, Job Titles) Options
A cooperator
Posted: Monday, October 8, 2018 10:05:48 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 10/27/2011
Posts: 2,807
Neurons: 10,237
Location: Ḩāḑírah, Hadramawt, Yemen
Hi Everyone!

While so confused with the difference between the General Secretary and the Secretary General, I googled and I found out the first answer below which helped eliminate that ambiguity.
Well it is as simple as the difference between a Plant and seed. There is usually no President where there is Secretary General. He/she is the organization's head. But where there is General Secretary, there is usually a President that heads the organization.

However, then I get more confused when I saw this discussion somewhere'

Quote:
OP: I have heard some within the ANC in saying Secretary General referring to their branch Secretaries. I am pressed to contribute on this this discourse.
Mine is to share information and learn at the same time.

General Secretary

The person in charge of an organization, for example, a political party.

This means that it is in the Communist Party where you have the General Secretary because the Secretary, at all levels of the Party, is the Political head. The Secretary is in charge of the organization.

The General Secretary is the National leader of the Party as he/she is the overall Political Head of the Party. At lower levels we have the Provincial Secretary who is the Political Head of the Party at provincial level, the District Secretary who is the Political Head of the Party at District level, the Sub – District Secretary who is the Political Head of the Party at Sub – District level and the Branch Secretary who is the Political Head at branch level.


Secretary General
Means the person who is the chief administrator of the organization.
The Secretary General is the administrative officer in an organization where the President/ the Chairperson is the one in charge of an organization.

In our South African context, it is in organizations such as the ANC, SANCO and others, where you have the President/ the Chairperson as the Political Head of the organization, that you have the Secretary General.
There are also those who refer to Secretaries at lower levels of the movement, the ANC, as General Secretaries. This confusion has to be clarified. An organization has one Secretary General at National level.
At lower levels we have the Provincial Secretary who is the administrative office at Provincial level, the Regional Secretary who is the administrative officer at Regional level, the Sub – Regional Secretary who is the administrative officer at Sub – regional level and the branch Secretary who is the administrative officer at branch level."


First Answer: Secretary General should be regarded as equivalent to the CEO organisation whilst the General Secretary should regarded as an Administrator. Secretary General in various organisation is the highest or officer whilst General secretary idoes lots of functions. They are not synonymous. Gwede is the CEO of the ANC and Vavi is doing Administrative duties for Cosatu.

Second Answer: The difference below is true and specific to the use of the terms Secretary General and General Secretary in the ANC and the Communist Party, but is by no means universal. I use the name the Communist Party and not SACP because the definition given below for the position of General Secretary is largely standard as it is captured for Communist Parties across the world.

However, in unions such as COSATU (federation) and almost all its affiliates they also use the position General Secretary and there are Presidents who are the leaders of the union. Therefore the definition provided below doesn't obtain for them.

Just to also highlight something. Instead of looking for definitions we should also recognise our role in developing them. In this regard I would like to point to the role played by history.

The use of the term "General" in the ANC has a certain historical background corresponding to organisational development. The ANC used to consist of ANCs - e.g. of so and so geography. Then the term "General" as in President General (not General President), therefore Secretary General, Treasurer General will refer to the leaders of the highest leadership collective from which the regional ANCs (e.g. Transvaal ANC or ANC of "geographic name") derive overall direction.


Third Answer: I agree with you that the difference lies in how each organisation defines the responsibilities, powers and functions. There is no fundamental difference derived from reference to either “general secretary” or “secretary general”. It will be disastrous if leaders organisations irrespective of portfolio occupied were to be ignorant of the administration of an organisation.


Fourth Answer: once again the General Secretary in the Party cannot be compared to the Secretary General of many organization more so with the Party.

The General Secretary of the Party is the Political and Administrative Head of the Party and is far from the references that many seem to suggest and therefore it can't be compared to the level of the ANC SG for that matter.

I therefore agree with the definitions provided by Cde Alex. I would appreciate it if comrades can read and understand the contributions each of us make in the CU let me quote what I said and still recommend that the Cdes re-read what I said " This clarity is a bit problematic as it seeks to suggest that the Party General Secretary is an administrator, which will be highly incorrect. Therefore this definition or clarity is exclusive of the Party structure/s."

I hope that the Cdes can see that in no way did I suggest that the Party GS is the "Administrator" however the political administrative role of the Party is a key responsibility of the Party GS and can never be compared to the conventional administrative responsibilities of Secretary Generals of other parties precisely because the Party and the ANC are not the same and the comparison between the two is limiting.

I say so because the position of the Secretary General of the ANC cannot be compared to the other similar positions in other organizations for which their character are far from that of the ANC.

I therefore agree that looking for a definition which consumers of such may interpret as related to positions in our revolutionary structures has a potential to incorrectly explain these important positions. Like one comrade said the answer is embedded on the role and responsibilities of the positions concerned as well as the character of such organizations






My questions are as follows:
Firstly: I don't know if there is a difference in 'Secretary General' and while hyphenated 'Secretary-General'
I sometimes see 'Secretary-General' is hyphenated as in:
Mr Hassan Nasrallah
Secretary-General of Hezbollah


Secondly: Having read "There is usually no President where there is Secretary General. He/she is the organization's head. But where there is General Secretary, there is usually a President that heads the organization", my understanding is as follows:

The General Secretary is the person in charge of an organization, for example, a political party. He is the National leader of the Party as he/she is the overall Political Head of the Party.

In organizations/parties at National Levels, we only have General Secretary, but no a Secretary General)
General Secretary is the National leader, chief administrator, the Head/ President/Chief Executive Officer. However, there are other Secretaries at lower levels, at Provincial Level is called a Provincial Secretary, who is a Political Head of a Party at provincial level, at District level is called a District Secretary, who is a Political Head of the Party at District level, at the Sub-District level is called a Sub – District Secretary, who is a Political Head of the Party at Sub-District level and at the Branch Level is called a Branch Secretary, who is a Political Head at branch level.

On the other hand, in organizations/parties at International or Continental Levels, we can have 'Secretary General', but NO 'General Secretary'

The Secretary General is the administrative officer in an organization where the President/ the Chairperson is the one in charge of an organization.
In organizations, where you have the President/ the Chairperson as the Political Head of the organization, that you have the Secretary General. There are also those who refer to Secretaries at lower levels of the movement, as General Secretaries. So, at the Regional Level, we can have a Regional Secretary who is a administrative officer at Regional level, at the Provincial Level, we can have a Provincial Secretary, who is a administrative office at Provincial level, at the District Levels, we have a District Secretary, who is a administrative officer at Discret Level, at the Sub-Discret Level, we have a Sub-Discret Secretary who is a administrative officer at Sub–District level and, at the Branch Level, we have a Branch Secretary who is a administrative officer at branch level.


Thirdly: The usage of where 'General' is placed ONLY in case 'Secretary' and ONLY in some professions. So, 'Secretary-General' should be regarded as equivalent to the CEO of an organisation whilst the General Secretary should be regarded as an Administrator(one doing duties).
Eg., Gwede is the CEO of the ANC and Vavi is doing Administrative duties for Cosatu.

OR this conception of adding 'General' before/after any post/job titles and in any professions can be as a right datum, for instance,

1- A Partitioner General one who is the chief administrator, the Head or CEO for all General Practitioners, at Regional, Provincial, District, Sub-District, and Branch levels whilst a General Practitioner is one who is the administrative officer managing types of illness that present in an undifferentiated way at an early stage of development, which may require urgent intervention.
Treasurer General

2- A Treasurer General is one who is the the chief administrator, Head or CEO for General Treasurers at Regional, Provincial, District, Sub-District, and Branch levels whilst A General Treasurer is one who is the administrative officer appointed to administer or manage the financial assets and liabilities of a society, company, local authority, or other body.

3- A President General is one who is the chief administrator, the head or CEO for General Presidents at Regional, Provincial, District, Sub-District, and Branch levels whilst General President is one who is the administrative officer.




Whoever doesn't own what he promises to those who do not deserve must not promise it.
Wilmar (USA)
Posted: Monday, October 8, 2018 1:54:14 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 6/4/2015
Posts: 1,274
Neurons: 468,676
Location: Vinton, Iowa, United States
It's as simple as positions have titles -- find out what they are. Every org has the privilege of naming their positions any way they want to.
A cooperator
Posted: Monday, October 8, 2018 4:19:50 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 10/27/2011
Posts: 2,807
Neurons: 10,237
Location: Ḩāḑírah, Hadramawt, Yemen
Wilmar (USA) wrote:
It's as simple as positions have titles -- find out what they are. Every org has the privilege of naming their positions any way they want to.

Thanks a lot,
But, do you think 'Secretary General' and 'Secretary-General' are the same?

Whoever doesn't own what he promises to those who do not deserve must not promise it.
Drag0nspeaker
Posted: Monday, October 8, 2018 11:14:34 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 9/12/2011
Posts: 30,137
Neurons: 176,765
Location: Livingston, Scotland, United Kingdom
In some companies or organisations, they may call a post "Secretary General".
In other organisations, they may call the same post - or a different one - "Secretary-General".
In some other companies, they may call one (or several) of their officers "General Secretary".

general
- adjective
8. (prenominal or immediately postpositive) having superior or extended authority or rank: general manager; consul general.
Collins Dictionary

7. Highest or superior in rank: the general manager. American Heritage

8. having extended command or superior or chief rank: the secretary general of the U.N. Random House Kernerman Webster's College Dictionary

It does not matter whether the 'general' is prenomial (before the noun 'manager') or immediately postpositive (directly after the noun). Different organisations choose their own post names.

Wyrd bið ful aræd - bull!
A cooperator
Posted: Tuesday, October 9, 2018 2:05:04 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 10/27/2011
Posts: 2,807
Neurons: 10,237
Location: Ḩāḑírah, Hadramawt, Yemen
Drag0nspeaker wrote:

It does not matter whether the 'general' is prenomial (before the noun 'manager') or immediately postpositive (directly after the noun). Different organisations choose their own post names.


Thank you so much,
But I don't know why I see people write
Mr Hassan Nasrallah
Secretary-General of Hezbollah


Whoever doesn't own what he promises to those who do not deserve must not promise it.
Drag0nspeaker
Posted: Thursday, October 11, 2018 4:05:42 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 9/12/2011
Posts: 30,137
Neurons: 176,765
Location: Livingston, Scotland, United Kingdom
I assume it is because that is the title which the writer decided upon.
Others use "Secretary General of Hezbollah" and maybe some would say "The Hezbollah Secretary-General".

There are conventions covering the use of hyphens, but some people follow one convention and other people follow other conventions.

So long as you understand "Secretary-General of Hezbollah" and "Secretary General of Hezbollah" to mean "the main person who leads Hezbollah", don't worry about the hyphen, it's not important.


Wyrd bið ful aræd - bull!
Users browsing this topic
Guest


Forum Jump
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.

Main Forum RSS : RSS
Forum Terms and Guidelines | Privacy policy | Copyright © 2008-2018 Farlex, Inc. All rights reserved.