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thar
Posted: Tuesday, October 2, 2018 3:42:33 AM

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Romany wrote:


But, regardless of that: - I think that the people, by then, wouldn't have cared too much which branch of the intricately-related Family - just as long as he wasn't a grossly indecent, uncouth and unhygenic lout who intimately fondled his favourites in public, And who, being gay, would never provide another heir.



So, he was gay, was he. Hmmmm - has anyone told the Irish Protestants about that?

Not that they would mind, of course, being so open and tolerant. It would explain the pretty flowers on the murals in Ulster. Whistle

I see Cromwell doesn't get any flowers. Shame on you




















But it is nice too see intimate moments diplayed in such a public way. So much love and tolerance.



I don't need the irony emoticon for this post, right? Just in case anyone takes me seriously.
Dynamina
Posted: Tuesday, October 2, 2018 8:55:31 AM
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Romany wrote:

Hope - yes, Philip was quite the ladies man and also only escaped getting caught up in the Profumo scandal by a whisker. The marriage was on the rocks pretty much at one stage - which is why, after having had Charles and Anne, they suddenly had another two kids some years later.

Did you never watch the movie that came out a couple of years ago and was all about Elizabeth & Philip?

Romany: how can you write such trash? Were you having a bad hair day?
You deserve a red card with 6 months probation. Go stand in the corner.
You blatantly advertise yourself as an academic, but the above looks like it is directly from the front page of The Sun or the old News of the World. Not a word or source to substantiate the story so that it can be believed. Suggestive accusations and innuendos are not enough.
As an alleged front runner for the women’s movement, your derby with Hope only succeeded in fortifying the stereotyping of women as being shallow and only interested in common gossip.

You can do better than this I’m sure.
No fake news please. Make a case first.

Also: If you can say ‘did you ever watch…’ then I guess you can also say ‘did you never watch…’. Sounds odd.

Hope123
Posted: Tuesday, October 2, 2018 6:15:02 PM

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Location: Burlington, Ontario, Canada
Hi Dynamina.

I had a derby horse race or a derby hat with Romany? Must be BE?

You were rather hard on Romany with your language. Maybe you could just have asked for some proof or her sources. I don't think she needs to stand in the corner and I have no idea what a red card is. Besides, I was the one who asked. You should have gone sfter me if you found my curiosity to be anti woman.

There was no intent for malicious gossip by either of us. I just wanted the truth and hoped the rumours I'd heard were wrong, because I don't find it understandable. But then much human behaviour is not understandable. Whether he did the deed or not, Philip has certainly fuelled the rumour mills with his attachments to other women. I have heard about their portrayl of him in "The Crown" and they certainly suggest he was a womanizer. I guess only he and the Queen know for sure. Being a royal that married into the family must be hard with all the constraints. But they worked it out, and they do seem to love each other.

And, no I never watched that one, although I usually watch anything about the Royal Family.

Elizabeth II is my most admired person in the world. Barack and Michelle Obama come next.

Elitism is the slur directed at merit by mediocrity. -Sydney J. Harris, journalist (14 Sep 1917-1986)
Drag0nspeaker
Posted: Wednesday, October 3, 2018 3:04:37 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 9/12/2011
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Location: Livingston, Scotland, United Kingdom
Hi Hope.
From the reference to 'red card' (a football term - a red card is waved in the air by a referee when he is disqualifying a player from the game - 'sending him off') I guess that 'derby' is used in the football meaning - a game between two teams from the same city.

Manchester City vs Manchester United is a derby match.

It doesn't make sense here, as you are in Canada and Romany is in England - but none of the other meanings make any better sense.

Wyrd bið ful aræd - bull!
ozok
Posted: Thursday, October 4, 2018 4:21:33 AM
Rank: Member

Joined: 7/24/2018
Posts: 118
Neurons: 618

Quote:
...derby' is used in the football meaning - a game between two teams from the same city.



The football (soccer) match between Belgium and the Netherlands is called 'Derby der Lage Landen' (The Low Countries derby)



just sayin'
thar
Posted: Thursday, October 4, 2018 4:59:33 AM

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That must be one of the most convoluted origins for a word. I am assuming it must be from the English meaning? I don't know of another origin.

Or maybe not that strange. I guess there are a lot more convoluted ones than that.

Animal Farm

Quote:
dýr n ( -s, -)
animal, beast (English deer, Dutch dierlijk?)

búa v (acc) ( býr; bjó, bjuggu, búið )
1. (eiga heima) live, reside
2. (reka bú) farm

bú n (genitive singular bús, nominative plural bú)
farm, settlement, house (English -by, bower, byre, building)



Earl of Derby arranges a horse race (in Epsom, nowhere near Derbyshire)

derby becomes a race

local derby becomes a competition between local rivals > derby match . (?)

Still Animal Farm. Whistle
Drag0nspeaker
Posted: Thursday, October 4, 2018 4:59:42 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 9/12/2011
Posts: 30,140
Neurons: 176,780
Location: Livingston, Scotland, United Kingdom
ozok wrote:
The football (soccer) match between Belgium and the Netherlands is called 'Derby der Lage Landen' (The Low Countries derby)

Ah so. Thanks.
I suppose there it is two countries in the same region (The Low Countries).

That makes every conversation on this forum a "Planetary Derby"! Dancing

Wyrd bið ful aræd - bull!
Jyrkkä Jätkä
Posted: Thursday, October 4, 2018 6:09:15 AM

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Location: Helsinki, Southern Finland Province, Finland
The most awaited and watched derby matches are the ice-hockey matches between Finland and Sweden, Russia and Czech, US and Canada.


In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.
thar
Posted: Thursday, October 4, 2018 6:27:51 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 7/8/2010
Posts: 17,852
Neurons: 72,390
I am guessing Finland-Russia is more of a grudge match than a derby?

(I think that means something a bit different in the American idiom. I just mean no love lost between the two opponents!)

It is not really so much of a concept in Iceland. Of 12 clubs in the top football league at least half are in the Reykjavík area. Nearly everything is a derby. Outside of that, nothing is. Except Iceland-Faroes at football, I guess. Whistle
Hope123
Posted: Thursday, October 4, 2018 6:46:07 AM

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Joined: 3/23/2015
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Location: Burlington, Ontario, Canada
Rom and I weren't playing games or in a match. Guess we'll never know the slang meaning unless Dynamina graces us with her presence again.

From Urban Dictionary - besides the match thing this was the only other definition. The usage makes no sense either but sounds good!

An ice cream in a cone which has been chocolate dipped
I love chocolate dip on my ice cream, so make mine a derby!


I used to love driving through Kentucky in the spring and seeing all the huge horse farms with their miles of white picket fences and spring blossoms.

Anyone who knows the Queen knows she loves horses, the races, and the Kentucky Derby too. I like watching her at the races. Although I love them too, I don't go to the horse races because I can't afford to get addicted - which I could easily do. Whistle







Elitism is the slur directed at merit by mediocrity. -Sydney J. Harris, journalist (14 Sep 1917-1986)
Hope123
Posted: Thursday, October 4, 2018 6:50:13 AM

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Location: Burlington, Ontario, Canada
thar wrote:
I am guessing Finland-Russia is more of a grudge match than a derby?

(I think that means something a bit different in the American idiom. I just mean no love lost between the two opponents!)

It is not really so much of a concept in Iceland. Of 12 clubs in the top football league at least half are in the Reykjavík area. Nearly everything is a derby. Outside of that, nothing is. Except Iceland-Faroes at football, I guess. Whistle


I don't watch sports but I bet US and Canada could be a grudge match too.

Elitism is the slur directed at merit by mediocrity. -Sydney J. Harris, journalist (14 Sep 1917-1986)
ozok
Posted: Thursday, October 4, 2018 6:50:32 AM
Rank: Member

Joined: 7/24/2018
Posts: 118
Neurons: 618

Quote:

That must be one of the most convoluted origins for a word...


yer…and the armorial motto of the 'Derby' family is: Sans changer



just sayin'
thar
Posted: Thursday, October 4, 2018 7:14:57 AM

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Joined: 7/8/2010
Posts: 17,852
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I didn't know The Stanley Cup was named after a Governor General of Canada (to my shame, I had associated it more with the US) - who was the Earl of Derby.

Quote:
Frederick Stanley, 16th Earl of Derby


The Right Honourable
The Earl of Derby
KG GCB GCVO PC
Lord Stanley of Preston
6th Governor General of Canada
In office
11 June 1888 – 18 September 1893


Frederick Arthur Stanley, 16th Earl of Derby, KG, GCB, GCVO, PC (15 January 1841 – 14 June 1908), known as Frederick Stanley until 1886 and as Lord Stanley of Preston between 1886 and 1893, was a Conservative Party politician in the United Kingdom who served as Colonial Secretary from 1885 to 1886 and the sixth Governor General of Canada, from 1888 to 1893. An avid sportsman, he built Stanley House Stables in England, and is famous in North America for presenting Canada with the Stanley Cup. Stanley was also one of the original inductees of the Hockey Hall of Fame.



Quote:
The Stanley family, Earls of Derby, had a long history of horse-racing, and James Stanley, 7th Earl of Derby, who gained the Lordship of Mann in 1627, instituted horse-racing on the Langness Peninsula on the Isle of Man, donating a cup for what became known as the "Manx Derby".


Epsom Derby
Quote:

The Derby originated at a celebration following the first running of the Oaks Stakes in 1779. A new race was planned, and it was decided that it should be named after either the host of the party, the 12th Earl of Derby, or one of his guests, Sir Charles Bunbury (the Bunbury Cup run at Newmarket would later be named in his honour). According to legend the decision was made by the toss of a coin, but it is probable that Bunbury, the Steward of the Jockey Club, deferred to his host.


Seems to be a family tradition. No change!

Hope123
Posted: Thursday, October 4, 2018 7:20:52 AM

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Location: Burlington, Ontario, Canada
Thar, I had no idea the origin of the Stanley Cup!

Elitism is the slur directed at merit by mediocrity. -Sydney J. Harris, journalist (14 Sep 1917-1986)
thar
Posted: Thursday, October 4, 2018 8:00:41 AM

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Joined: 7/8/2010
Posts: 17,852
Neurons: 72,390
Yes, that seems to be it. And genuine, as well, not just a PR thing.

Quote:
Stanley's wife, whom Sir Wilfrid Laurier described as "an able and witty woman", made a lasting contribution during her husband's term of office. In 1891, she founded the Lady Stanley Institute for Trained Nurses on Rideau Street, the first nursing school in Ottawa. She was also an enthusiastic fan of hockey games at the Rideau Rink.

Stanley's sons became avid ice hockey players in Canada, playing in amateur leagues in Ottawa, and Lord and Lady Stanley became staunch hockey fans. In 1892, Stanley gave Canada a treasured national icon, the Stanley Cup, known originally as the Dominion Hockey Challenge Cup. He originally donated the trophy as a challenge cup for Canada's best amateur hockey club, but in 1909, it became contested by professional teams exclusively. Since 1926, only teams of the National Hockey League have competed for the trophy. This now-famous cup bears Stanley's name as tribute to his encouragement and love of outdoor life and sport in Canada. In recognition of this, he was inducted into the Canadian Hockey Hall of Fame in 1945 in the "Honoured Builders" category. The original size of the Stanley Cup was 7 inches (180 mm) and is now around 36 inches (910 mm) and 35 pounds (16 kg).



You know what I thought, when I saw that he awarded the Stanley Cup - how unlikely. It just doesn't fit a man of that time and upbringing to like something so big and blingy - but I guess all the tiers were added over time to make it the monster it is today.

Seems like a cool guy, as well:



Quote:
Stanley helped cement the non-political role of the governor general when, in 1891, he refused to agree to a controversial motion in the House of Commons. The motion called on him as governor general to disallow the government of Quebec's Jesuit Estates Act, which authorized paying $400,000 as compensation for land granted to the Jesuits by the King of France.[1] The opposition to the bill was introduced by the other provinces who were motivated by mistrust of the Roman Catholic Church in Quebec. Stanley declined to interfere, citing the proposed disallowal as unconstitutional. In holding to this decision, he gained popularity by refusing to compromise the viceregal position of political neutrality.


Quote:
Stanley's term as Governor General of Canada was due to end in September 1893. However, in April of that year, his elder brother, the 15th Earl of Derby, died. Stanley succeeded him as the 16th Earl of Derby. As a result, Stanley, now known as Lord Derby, left Canada on 15 July 1893 and returned to England. An administrator was appointed to fulfil his duties until Lord Aberdeen was sworn in that September.

Also in 1893, Toronto's "New Fort York" (built in 1841) was renamed The Stanley Barracks in honour of Lord Stanley. Back with his family in England, he soon became the Lord Mayor of Liverpool and the first Chancellor of the University of Liverpool, Stanley Park, Liverpool is also named after him. In November 1901 Lord Derby was elected Mayor of Preston for the following year,[3] and took part in the 1902 Preston Guild. During the last years of his life, he increasingly dedicated himself to philanthropic work. He helped fund the Coronation Park, Ormskirk, in 1905.[4]


He was MP for Preston, and later mayor. Preston North End is the oldest club in English football and was part of the first league in 1888 - so maybe he watched football matches there!

Also, it makes me wonder if Accrington Stanley is related to the Stanley family. I don't know if they were involved in the area before, or if that is all coincidence. It is not an uncommon name.

Quote:
. The original town club, Accrington, was amongst the twelve founder members of the Football League in 1888, before resigning from the league after just five years. A team called Stanley Villa already existed at the time, named as such because they were based at the Stanley W.M.C. on Stanley Street in Accrington.




Think Think

edit
guess it probably is the same Stanley -apparently they were very big cheese in Lancashire from way back well before the industrial revolution and the growth of towns like Accrington.

Quote:
Thomas Stanley, 1st Earl of Derby, KG (1435 – 29 July 1504) was an English nobleman and politician. He was a titular King of Mann, and stepfather to King Henry VII of England. He was the eldest son of Thomas Stanley, 1st Baron Stanley and Joan Goushill.

A landed magnate of immense power, particularly across the northwest of England where his authority went almost unchallenged, even by the Crown, Stanley managed to remain in favour with successive kings throughout the Wars of the Roses until his death in 1504. His estates included what is now Tatton Park in Cheshire, Lathom House in Lancashire, and Derby House in the City of London, now the site of the College of Arms.

Although the king for the early part of his career, Henry VI, was head of the House of Lancaster, Stanley’s marriage to Eleanor, daughter of Richard Neville, 5th Earl of Salisbury (a descendant of Edward III) and sister of Richard Neville, Earl of Warwick (‘Warwick the Kingmaker’) in the late 1450s constituted a powerful alliance with the House of York. This did him no harm, however, even after Warwick was toppled from power, and in 1472, with the House of York now occupying the English throne, he married his second wife Lady Margaret Beaufort, whose son, Henry Tudor, was the leading Lancastrian claimant. He was the last to use the style ‘King of Mann’, his successors opting for the safer ‘Lord of Mann’. Stanley was “a man of considerable acumen, and probably the most successful power-broker of his age”.[1]


A player!
Hope123
Posted: Thursday, October 4, 2018 10:50:56 AM

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Joined: 3/23/2015
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Location: Burlington, Ontario, Canada
Applause Applause Applause The forum is getting me interested in history.

I knew the Stanley Cup was CDN but I never thought to ask why it was called that. Years ago I did use to watch hockey when there were only 4-6 teams but lost interest when they split into so many teams. I saw an article about the Maple Leafs this morning all set to try to do better for a change but I don't even know what league they are in. My family are Blue Jay baseball fans (wishing they would do better next year) and tennis and golf are on the TV these days.

Elitism is the slur directed at merit by mediocrity. -Sydney J. Harris, journalist (14 Sep 1917-1986)
Romany
Posted: Thursday, October 4, 2018 1:44:05 PM
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Joined: 6/14/2009
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Location: Brighton, England, United Kingdom

Hope!!Applause Applause

I never thought I'd hear those words from you - you're getting interested in History?

I shall have that sentence printed out and hung above my desk.Applause Dancing

(Do I need this Whistle ?)
Hope123
Posted: Thursday, October 4, 2018 6:34:33 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 3/23/2015
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Neurons: 47,541
Location: Burlington, Ontario, Canada
Romany wrote:

Hope!!Applause Applause

I never thought I'd hear those words from you - you're getting interested in History?

I shall have that sentence printed out and hung above my desk.Applause Dancing

(Do I need this Whistle ?)


Applause

Well, when you are sitting around not by choice and it is being offered.... Angel

Seriously, yeah. I'm finding the latest history discussions by several people who know and understand British and other European+ history of many subjects and explain it well because it is part of THEIR history, very interesting. Not like 1066 in a text book. Only piece of history I remember from Grade 13. :)

I still prefer modern buildings and can't see (dare I say to you) wasting millions to fix up an old moldy (old buildings are always moldy) Prime Minister's office/home instead of building new. The disrepair is so bad he doesn't even live there. Never moved in. The estimates are much cheaper just to build new. But it's not just the money - I don't have the sentimentality to want to preserve it "for history". (Since being married we've had 6 brand new homes and one just 4 years old.)

I expect you to answer, "Off with her head". Angel

Elitism is the slur directed at merit by mediocrity. -Sydney J. Harris, journalist (14 Sep 1917-1986)
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