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What Did Edison and Contemporaries Do to Humankind? Options
leonAzul
Posted: Thursday, September 6, 2018 4:46:32 AM

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Islami wrote:
The dispute between the Church and Galileo has long stood as one of history's great emblems of conflict between reason and dogma, science and faith. The Vatican's formal acknowledgement of an error, moreover, is a rarity in an institution built over centuries on the belief that the Church is the final arbiter in matters of faith.
At the time of his condemnation, Galileo had won fame and the patronage of leading Italian powers like the Medicis and Barberinis for discoveries he had made with the astronomical telescope he had built. But when his observations led him to proof of the Copernican theory of the solar system, in which the sun and not the earth is the center, and which the Church regarded as heresy, Galileo was summoned to Rome by the Inquisition. Forced to Recant.
More than 350 years after the Roman Catholic Church condemned Galileo, Pope John Paul II is poised to rectify one of the Church's most infamous wrongs -- the persecution of the Italian astronomer and physicist for proving the Earth moves around the Sun.
With a formal statement at the Pontifical Academy of Sciences on Saturday, Vatican officials said the Pope will formally close a 13-year investigation into the Church's condemnation of Galileo in 1633. The condemnation, which forced the astronomer and physicist to recant his discoveries, led to Galileo's house arrest for eight years before his death in 1642 at the age of 77.
Invention of incandescent light was great. Those are still in use in many countries.
If a couple of inventions proved harmful today, what about the good those have done in good old days when those were invented .
Criticizing always is not good.

To Err is human(Church also?)


Why is this still a thing?

Galileo Galilei was not hammered because "he spoke truth to strength", but rather because he chose to mock authority. The physical notion of the solar system with the sun at its center was well understood for many millennia before the existence of the Curia. The detailed observations of Nicolaus Copernicus only provided more substantial evidence to what had already been known physically and understood for tens of thousands of years.

The Roman Catholic Church (RHC) had no problem with this until Galileo Galilei used the latest findings as a platform to characterize the pope as an ignoramus.

You should pardon my rude language, yet understandably that shit didn't float.

Galileo Galilei was emphatically not a hero, but rather a flaming @55h0L3 who almost retarded scientific progress by several millennia with his shenanigans.
Think


"Make it go away, Mrs Whatsit," he whispered. "Make it go away. It's evil."
Epiphileon
Posted: Thursday, September 6, 2018 4:55:31 AM

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leonAzul wrote:
The Roman Catholic Church (RHC) had no problem with this until Galileo Galilei used the latest findings as a platform to characterize the pope as an ignoramus.

Well, that by its self would have made him kind of a hero.

leonAzul wrote:

Galileo Galilei was emphatically not a hero, but rather a flaming @55h0L3 who almost retarded scientific progress by several millennia with his shenanigans.Think

Well, this is a problem. I had never heard this description of events Leon, where did you get this?
Thanks though, your post cracked me up, a good way to start the day!

Question authority. How do you know, that you know, what you know?
leonAzul
Posted: Thursday, September 6, 2018 7:30:32 AM

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Epiphileon wrote:
leonAzul wrote:
The Roman Catholic Church (RHC) had no problem with this until Galileo Galilei used the latest findings as a platform to characterize the pope as an ignoramus.

Well, that by its self would have made him kind of a hero.

leonAzul wrote:

Galileo Galilei was emphatically not a hero, but rather a flaming @55h0L3 who almost retarded scientific progress by several millennia with his shenanigans.Think

Well, this is a problem. I had never heard this description of events Leon, where did you get this?
Thanks though, your post cracked me up, a good way to start the day!

Don't take my word for it, read the evidence!

It annoys me no end that the meticulous observations of Nicolaus Copernicus as correctly explicated by Johannes Kepler have been shaded by the shenanigans of Galileo Galilei. The record is there if one wishes to read it.
Think



"Make it go away, Mrs Whatsit," he whispered. "Make it go away. It's evil."
leonAzul
Posted: Thursday, September 6, 2018 8:01:31 AM

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Epiphileon wrote:
leonAzul wrote:
The Roman Catholic Church (RHC) had no problem with this until Galileo Galilei used the latest findings as a platform to characterize the pope as an ignoramus.

Well, that by its self would have made him kind of a hero.

Galileo Galilei was a bloody punter compared to Martin Luther.
Whistle


"Make it go away, Mrs Whatsit," he whispered. "Make it go away. It's evil."
Epiphileon
Posted: Thursday, September 6, 2018 9:31:28 AM

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leonAzul wrote:
Galileo Galilei was a bloody punter compared to Martin Luther. Whistle

Oh yeah there is no doubt of that Martin was a badass, some of his friends actually had to kidnap and hold him against his will at one point to keep him from falling prey to the RC.

I am unfamiliar with the record you refer to though, I am only familiar with the version I was taught. I am not at all surprised it is erroneous. Where would I read about what you refer to?

Question authority. How do you know, that you know, what you know?
leonAzul
Posted: Friday, September 7, 2018 8:59:19 AM

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Epiphileon wrote:
leonAzul wrote:
Galileo Galilei was a bloody punter compared to Martin Luther. Whistle

Oh yeah there is no doubt of that Martin was a badass, some of his friends actually had to kidnap and hold him against his will at one point to keep him from falling prey to the RC.

I am unfamiliar with the record you refer to though, I am only familiar with the version I was taught. I am not at all surprised it is erroneous. Where would I read about what you refer to?


Some time ago I read a book that cited the actual correspondence with Galileo and the proceedings of his trial. I'll return to this thread when I find out whether it is still in print, or perhaps an even better researched version is available on-line. I do not own the book, nor obviously the primary sources, and I no longer have access to the library where I found it.

Despite the excellent insights he had into the concepts of inertia, celestial mechanics, and the emerging notion of scientific method versus natural philosophy, particularly with regard to observational method, he almost scuttled it all with his sarcastic language and ill-timed polemics. The supreme irony was that Pope Urban VIII was a former supporter, along with many Jesuits, with the caveat that such inquiries be presented as formal hypotheses and not used as a challenge to the moral authority of the church and scripture. It really made no sense to intentionally mock them.

Most of the resistance to Copernicus, Kepler, and particularly Galileo was a product of political turmoil within the Vatican and its relationship to other polities, in particular the earliest notions of what would later emerge as nation-states based on common language and ethnicity, rather than on local princes and hegemony determined by intermarriage and warcraft. It was the same Wille zur Macht that stirred up the various inquisitions in the 15th century and later. In other words, there was a vocal and influential constituency in the Vatican that sought to use scriptural and moral authority as an argument for political authority.

To be continued as I find time to support my conclusions with up to date citations.

"Make it go away, Mrs Whatsit," he whispered. "Make it go away. It's evil."
leonAzul
Posted: Friday, September 7, 2018 11:28:02 AM

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I found a recent Kindle edition of Galileo, Bellarmine, and the Bible by Richard J. Blackwell.

The link is provided as a reference that includes publication information and is not intended to promote the sale of this edition or any other.

When I get a chance to read this again, I'm sure I'll discover numerous memory glitches on my part, yet I am also confident that I recall the basic arguments, even if I haven't recalled them perfectly.



"Make it go away, Mrs Whatsit," he whispered. "Make it go away. It's evil."
leonAzul
Posted: Friday, September 7, 2018 11:41:54 AM

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Meanwhile I have discovered Galileo Revisited: The Galileo Affair in Context by Dom Paschal Scotti, published in October 2017. I'm getting into it now, and from the table of contents, bibliography, and first chapter it appears to be just what it says on the tin.

"Make it go away, Mrs Whatsit," he whispered. "Make it go away. It's evil."
Epiphileon
Posted: Saturday, September 8, 2018 6:27:01 AM

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Thanks very much Leon, that is very informative.




Question authority. How do you know, that you know, what you know?
leonAzul
Posted: Saturday, September 8, 2018 8:37:42 PM

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Epiphileon wrote:
Thanks very much Leon, that is very informative.



Thanks, yet please forgive me for not correctly starting a new thread from this topic. I, too, am all so human, and sometimes react to a comment, instead of responding to it.

My intention was not to gainsay simplified conclusions, but rather to provoke a more complete appreciation and discussion of the context in which Galileo Galilei was judged and sentenced.

In parallel (back on track), Edison et alia have had an immense influence ( I decry the word "impact" when used loosely) on the way things are made and are done, sometimes salubrious, and sometimes not so much.





"Make it go away, Mrs Whatsit," he whispered. "Make it go away. It's evil."
Hope123
Posted: Sunday, September 9, 2018 8:09:26 AM

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leonAzul wrote:
Epiphileon wrote:
Thanks very much Leon, that is very informative.



Thanks, yet please forgive me for not correctly starting a new thread from this topic. I, too, am all so human, and sometimes react to a comment, instead of responding to it.

My intention was not to gainsay simplified conclusions, but rather to provoke a more complete appreciation and discussion of the context in which Galileo Galilei was judged and sentenced.

In parallel (back on track), Edison et alia have had an immense influence ( I decry the word "impact" when used loosely) on the way things are made and are done, sometimes salubrious, and sometimes not so much.



An interesting digression - and perhaps the title should not have limited the discussion to Edison's contemporaries. 😇

Elitism is the slur directed at merit by mediocrity. -Sydney J. Harris, journalist (14 Sep 1917-1986)
Ashwin Joshi
Posted: Saturday, September 15, 2018 1:14:50 PM

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We are questioning great scientists' contribution to present society.
Let us evaluate our contribution vis-a-vis Edison and other great scientists. Do we stand anywhere other than criticizing?

State your achievements and pardon me .

Me Gathering Pebbles at The Seashore.-Aj
Hope123
Posted: Saturday, September 15, 2018 3:40:05 PM

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Ashwin Joshi wrote:
We are questioning great scientists' contribution to present society.
Let us evaluate our contribution vis-a-vis Edison and other great scientists. Do we stand anywhere other than criticizing?

State your achievements and pardon me .


Joshi, please reread the opening post, the rest of the thread, especially where I dealt with the fact that there was no criticism intended, that the idea was to see what adjustments could be made to alleviate any untoward unintended effects of great inventions, and then I won't need to pardon you. Also note that the thread is in the Medicine sub forum.

Edited - I decided to answer that incorrect posit a second time, because when people read only titles, they may get the wrong idea. That's how false information gets spread.

Elitism is the slur directed at merit by mediocrity. -Sydney J. Harris, journalist (14 Sep 1917-1986)
Romany
Posted: Saturday, September 15, 2018 9:19:31 PM
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TMe. Islami, Ashwin Joshi,

Each of you has, not only in this thread, but on others as well, cautioned posters not to criticise well-known figures.

This is a cultural difference which you may not be aware of. In our educational system we are taught to doubt, to evaluate, to question, to find the truth. A huge part of studying Literature is also learning textual criticism; a huge part of science is to evaluate information; and in the study of history both of these methods are employed.

This is what these forums are about: this is how we learn. We criticise, evaluate and discuss. This has absolutely nothing to do with the primary meaning of the word "criticise"; it is a valid and important part of scholarly epistimology. To tell people not to do so completely defeats the purpose of discussion.

"criticism: the analysis and judgement of the merits and faults of a literary or artistic work." https://bit.ly/2MCzJUE
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