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Progressive Liberals Get Their Own "Disease" Options
FounDit
Posted: Thursday, August 2, 2018 11:53:55 AM

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This is sad and funny at the same time. I can't really wrap my mind around anyone so mentally dysfunctional. I know these kinds of people have always existed, but to see so many of them publicly expose themselves is an oddity I never thought I'd see.

Liberals Get Their Own "Disease"


We should look to the past to learn from it, not destroy our future because of it — FounDit
Hope123
Posted: Thursday, August 2, 2018 8:34:22 PM

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I saw that before because the CBC actually picked up such a stupid story from the Washington Times, bringing this divisive mentality into Canada from the US. I have recently lost all respect for the CBC with the stories they've been running that are stirring up hate crime here against people of any colour and especially refugees.They used to be a reputable source of news. More Koch brother money is coming into Canada to elect the Conservative aka Reform Party who elected a leader as dishonest as Trump.

The US Right has been harping for a year and a half that the Left can't get over an election loss. Well, they did it before when the election was actually stolen by FL, when instead of recounting, a FL official went to the courts to get Bush declared winner and then she got a cushy job in his govt. (And the world got a war and ISIS.)

I'm sure if the Right had put in a decent knowledgeable person who is not hell bent on destroying world order as well as his own country's economy and democracy and stopped rabidly putting himself out there every single day with tweets and rallies, you'd hear a lot less about the US govt. It is not only Trump's character they criticize, but his impulsive undiscussed policies, especially in foreign affairs, that has set pretty much the whole world against the US. Even the Koch Brothers who put him there say the Trump trade policy is causing 'long-term economic damage' to US. Guess their portfolios have been affected.

When Trump says fake news you can be sure it is true. He admitted he uses it to mean anything negative against him.

In fact after the way children are being treated at the US border, the US has lost any credibilty to chide any other country about decency and human rights.

American addressing Americans: That $3 trillion tax cut means every American put $30,000 on a credit card. Including you. And you don’t get the money. The Kochs and Murdoch get the money. Two kinds of Republicans: billionaires, and suckers.

I have a few things I'd like to say about or post photos of mentally dysfunctional Trump supporters but I won't do quid pro quo. Not yet.

It seems whenever the Right can't defend Trump's actions, they bring up Hillary or Obama. My god, it's ancient history.

Edited: Just saw this - it seemed to fit the topic of Trump Derangement Disease.

https://www.politicususa.com/2018/08/02/trump-mental-decline-pennsylvania.html

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mactoria
Posted: Friday, August 3, 2018 12:35:14 AM
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The import of the cited article isn't it's subject, it's the author. Tammy Bruce is a purposely controversial 'celebrity' who has for a few decades now been on one side or the other of just about every real or potentially controversial issue. She was president of NOW for some years, pro-choice to the point of advocating beating up anti-abortion protestors, then somewhere along the line she leaped to being aggressively anti-choice. She's been anti-gay, but now calls herself bisexual though sometimes she's a lesbian and other times she's been heterosexual. She used to advocate liberal issues, now she's a radical conservative contributor to Fox News, commenting on all sort of matters regardless of her expertise. She likes to make fun of people she disagrees with, embracing the epithet "snowflake" for people who were upset by Trump's victory; one of her most recent demeaning statements was about a little kid with autism who, when accidentally hit by VP Pence in a room, asked Pence for an apology...and then she had to walk back her demeaning of the kid as a "snowflake" when she was told (she didn't bother to get the facts first) that he was autistic and had been taught to stand up for himself when hit (being autistic and young, he didn't have the ability to make a lot of distinctions between accidents, the mash of being in a political room, etc.). Bruce grabs at headlines and either makes fun of the issue/people involved, or takes a contrary view, depending on what would make the biggest splash for her. The fact that Bruce is still whipping the dead horse of pro-Clinton voters feeling negative about Trump winning, long after everyone else has moved on to other matters is indicative of her style: take a controversial side of a new issue, or whip up frenzy about an old issue that no one cares about anymore, anything to be in the headlines and get a few minutes of publicity. To paraphrase an old adage (there is no there, there): there is no real Tammy Bruce there.
FounDit
Posted: Friday, August 3, 2018 12:42:30 PM

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The OP wasn't about Tammy Bruce. It was about a Canadian report of a "new disorder":

"Now the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation (CBC) in Canada alerts us to psychologists in the United States treating patients with what some in the field are terming “Trump Anxiety Disorder.”

It's always fun to attack the messenger when you don't like the message, but that is simply deflection, and in your post, so obvious as to be comical.




We should look to the past to learn from it, not destroy our future because of it — FounDit
Hope123
Posted: Friday, August 3, 2018 2:39:30 PM

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Sorry, FD, but the messenger does matter. Your story by Bruce is spun, right down to changing the name of the disorder. Therefore your thread title is incorrect and misleading. And if you have never had anxiety and think it is being mentally dysfunctional, you are a robot.

Here's the original CBC story about TAD - "Trump Anxiety Disorder" which is apparently real because people are waiting for the next shoe to drop and afraid of what he'll do next to disrupt their lives. It's a collective phenomenon not related to one group or another. Trump supporters have it too.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/trump-anxiety-disorder-mental-health-political-divide-us-1.4762487

Therapists around the country told CBC they're seeing politically tinged anger and anxiety from patients no matter their political affiliation.

The original written by the CBC's Washington reporter makes sense. I had not read more the title when I saw it, but my criticism of CDN media spending time on US affairs instead of CDN news, and the CBCs latest forays into US divisive ideas still stands, even though this story is not one of them as I assumed at first after looking at the provided link, and didn't try hard enough to do my usual homework till now. Nor did you, assuming Bruce was correct and unbiased. That's how misinformation gets spread. You can see the difference in the two articles easily - how Bruce's is partisan with emotional triggers and Kwong's factual.

I still object to the term used by Trump supporters of "Trump Derangement Syndrome" instead of anxiety (I think TDS applies more to some Trump supporters from what I've seen- see photo) and Bruce's use in the title of her piece and your continued use just a few threads ago of Trump's meme about the election.



I'm sure it will be a "Ford Anxiety Disorder" in Ontario soon after, in much the same circumstances, they elected a Trump Lite with no experience over the competent incumbent gay woman. Because they wanted a "change". He's only been in a month and some who voted for him with no platform announced are having regrets already.



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Andrew Schultz
Posted: Friday, August 3, 2018 6:00:50 PM

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I suppose "Authoritarian anxiety disorder" doesn't sound quite as snappy.

I have to admit I cringe at the diagnosis title, but all the same, Trump and his administration use many psychologocal tricks I remember from high school. And social science has shown they work, even if they seem crude.

It's been tough for me to put him aside to do stuff I want to do. I can see how other people who dislike him have an even harder time focusing on their own lives.

So it's not just about Trump doing or saying things. But as leader of the free world, he is deliberately feeding into anxiety of people who do not support him.

I also think the discussion of Tammy Bruce, the writer of this "people are saying" article, is extremely relevant. When the OP posts this simultaneously with "NY Times is fake news" castigating one editorial writer, well ... logic works both ways.

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RuthP
Posted: Friday, August 3, 2018 7:39:49 PM

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FounDit wrote:
This is sad and funny at the same time. I can't really wrap my mind around anyone so mentally dysfunctional. I know these kinds of people have always existed, but to see so many of them publicly expose themselves is an oddity I never thought I'd see.

Liberals Get Their Own "Disease"

First, could you please define for me what you mean by "these kind of people"? What is the point of using the term? That kind of loose lumping-together of undefined different people, personally unknown to you is often a way of creating a straw man. It becomes a (purported) group which is easy to denigrate. I used "purported" because I have no evidence that your definition of "these people" would define any group which in actuality thinks of itself as a group.

I can set up such a straw man group and then I can assign illogical ideas to the group and follow up with political opinions, theories, philosophies, or proposals for action I do not like. Because I have set the parameters of the group, it becomes very easy to prove "they" are all irrational and should be ignored. So again, who are "these kind of people"? How do you know what "they" think? Please cite original sources from "them" as evidence of "their" beliefs. "These kind of people" (and similar) seem most often to cast a pejorative pall over some not-me group. In fact, my definition of not-me is very suspect.

In regard to the so-called "Trump anxiety disorder" there is no such diagnosis. Your linked article speaks of one psychologist who uses the term. The story is based on a CBC news story. Last time I looked, the CBC was the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation, not a medical association. The psychologist's purported diagnosis is based on her anecdotal experience with what I assume is a subset of her patient load. This is an anecdotal report. There may be other anecdotes along the same lines. The plural of anecdote is anecdotes, not evidence. There is evidence of nothing except possibly a desire to increase audience share, a sort of "look at the crazy neighbors" reality show, with as much reality as any other reality show. (And, yes, psychologists, as well as psychiatrists and other medical doctors, are often guilty of "diagnosing" by anecdote rather than evidence. It is not valid, but it is done.)

As for the Fox report itself, well, I am inclined to impute bad motives to Fox. I do read a fair amount of what passes for reportage on Fox, but in general I find it not just skewed, but actually an apparent attempt to raise the temperature of the discussion. As I myself am a very slow thinker, I do poorly in that kind of heated discussion. I have never been good at the quick quip or rapid comeback. Boring and pedantic is more my style. Perhaps just for this reason, but perhaps because I am right, I do not believe that this helps with the national discussion of anything.
FounDit
Posted: Saturday, August 4, 2018 2:09:40 PM

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RuthP wrote:

FounDit wrote:
This is sad and funny at the same time. I can't really wrap my mind around anyone so mentally dysfunctional. I know these kinds of people have always existed, but to see so many of them publicly expose themselves is an oddity I never thought I'd see.
Liberals Get Their Own "Disease"


First, could you please define for me what you mean by "these kind of people"? I’d be glad to. “These kinds of people” are those such as Madonna, Ashley Judd, Samantha Bee, Kathy Griffin, Robert DiNiro, Austin Clay, et al. and those who support and agree with them when they become irrational drama queens, seeing Hitler whenever they see the President, or have fantasies of blowing up the White House. Just your regular run of emotionally unstable people.
What is the point of using the term? To describe people who are either mentally, or emotionally, unstable.
That kind of loose lumping-together of undefined different people, personally unknown to you is often a way of creating a straw man. No, they actually exist and have exposed themselves publicly for all to see. Apparently they are suffering from anxiety disorders caused by the mere existence of one human being.
It becomes a (purported) group which is easy to denigrate. I used "purported" because I have no evidence that your definition of "these people" would define any group which in actuality thinks of itself as a group. Does their existence depend on your possession of evidence? It’s an amazing thing to contemplate that some group doesn’t actually exist until you believe it does, but then you are a “very slow thinker” by your own words, so perhaps it shouldn't be a surprise.


I can set up such a straw man group and then I can assign illogical ideas to the group and follow up with political opinions, theories, philosophies, or proposals for action I do not like. Because I have set the parameters of the group, it becomes very easy to prove "they" are all irrational and should be ignored. So again, who are "these kind of people"? How do you know what "they" think? Please cite original sources from "them" as evidence of "their" beliefs. Answered above.
"These kind of people" (and similar) seem most often to cast a pejorative pall over some not-me group. In fact, my definition of not-me is very suspect. Well, being a "very slow thinker", perhaps if you spend more time on it, you will eventually allay your suspicions, and learn that accurate descriptions aren't always pejorative.


In regard to the so-called "Trump anxiety disorder" there is no such diagnosis. Your linked article speaks of one psychologist who uses the term. Wrong. You simply recall only that one they quoted, but that’s not a surprise for a slow thinker. Let me help, and please read slowly and pay attention:

From the Article:
“Now the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation (CBC) in Canada alerts us to psychologists in the United States treating patients with what some in the field are terming “Trump Anxiety Disorder.” Note the word in bold.

The story is based on a CBC news story. Last time I looked, the CBC was the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation, not a medical association. And it need not be to report something in the news. In fact, that is their job — reporting.
The psychologist's purported diagnosis is based on her anecdotal experience with what I assume is a subset of her patient load. This is an anecdotal report. There may be other anecdotes along the same lines. The plural of anecdote is anecdotes, not evidence. So by your own admission there is a subset of her patient load consisting of a number of patients? Does this not indicate more than one? And, so what if there are many anecdotes in the same vein? How many does it take before it becomes worthy of your attention, since we now know a group doesn’t exist until you believe it?
There is evidence of nothing except possibly a desire to increase audience share, a sort of "look at the crazy neighbors" reality show, with as much reality as any other reality show. (And, yes, psychologists, as well as psychiatrists and other medical doctors, are often guilty of "diagnosing" by anecdote rather than evidence. It is not valid, but it is done.)
So we should believe nothing “psychologists, as well as psychiatrists and other medical doctors” say — until when? Until you believe it?

As for the Fox report itself, well, I am inclined to impute bad motives to Fox. No! Really? I’m shocked.
I do read a fair amount of what passes for reportage on Fox, but in general I find it not just skewed, but actually an apparent attempt to raise the temperature of the discussion I find it annoying and rarely pay any attention to it. But then, I find most news organizations the same. The worst among them are MSNBC and CNN, who say things that are completely insane and risible. Any time I begin to think humans are intelligent, I simply put one of those channels on and my belief in the reality of idiocy is confirmed.
As I myself am a very slow thinker, I do poorly in that kind of heated discussion. I have never been good at the quick quip or rapid comeback. Boring and pedantic is more my style. Perhaps just for this reason, but perhaps because I am right, I do not believe that this helps with the national discussion of anything. So you are always right? Hmmm…couldn’t prove it by what you’ve written here, but okay. If it makes you happy to think so…

Ultimately, I’m not sure what to do with all that I have read here, since nothing written by any of you alters the stated fact in the slightest way. The simple fact is that psychologists (plural) have reported treating people with what they are calling “Trump Anxiety Disorder”. Your opinion of those reporting that fact is completely irrelevant, and is of no importance whatsoever. I would think that folks possessing logic and reason would realize that, but apparently that isn’t the case here. BTW, a "very slow thinker" can become a deep thinker. It might be worth a try. Then when you post, rather than rush to criticize and find fault with the messenger, you can argue with logic and reason, discussing the actual subject of the message.






We should look to the past to learn from it, not destroy our future because of it — FounDit
Hope123
Posted: Saturday, August 4, 2018 9:20:41 PM

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Talk about Trump Derangement Syndrome: A temper tantrum over a letter "s".

Critical thinkers know that the only Trump Derangement Syndrome is the delusion suffered by those who still think he’s going to make this country a better place for average people.


And another TDS temper tantrum:


Donald J. Trump

@realDonaldTrump


To Iranian President Rouhani: NEVER, EVER THREATEN THE UNITED STATES AGAIN OR YOU WILL SUFFER CONSEQUENCES THE LIKES OF WHICH FEW THROUGHOUT HISTORY HAVE EVER SUFFERED BEFORE. WE ARE NO LONGER A COUNTRY THAT WILL STAND FOR YOUR DEMENTED WORDS OF VIOLENCE & DEATH. BE CAUTIOUS!
11:24 PM - Jul 22, 2018

333K

230K people are talking about this

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Andrew Schultz
Posted: Monday, August 6, 2018 12:11:57 AM

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Also, the idea started as a joke video long before the official diagnosis: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QXUlhT3-r0c

So I hope people enjoy this. I can't believe I missed it. It's over a year old. But it's very funny.

Apparently the Russian state news finds nothing funny whatsoever about it, though. Not sure why they'd comment, if they weren't meddling in the first place. Confusing! (Or, um, totally not.)

100th person on TFD to 1 million neurons.
Lotje1000
Posted: Monday, August 6, 2018 3:14:41 AM

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I can see why you quote Tammy Bruce, FounDit. You two have the exact same writing style and also the same use of logical fallacies in debate.

I’d be glad to. “These kinds of people” are those such as Madonna, Ashley Judd, Samantha Bee, Kathy Griffin, Robert DiNiro, Austin Clay, et al. and those who support and agree with them when they become irrational drama queens, seeing Hitler whenever they see the President, or have fantasies of blowing up the White House. Just your regular run of emotionally unstable people.[/quote]
Strawman, as RuthP pointed out.

FounDit wrote:
To describe people who are either mentally, or emotionally, unstable.
No, they actually exist and have exposed themselves publicly for all to see. Apparently they are suffering from anxiety disorders caused by the mere existence of one human being.

Strawman and ad hominem.

FounDit wrote:
Does their existence depend on your possession of evidence? It’s an amazing thing to contemplate that some group doesn’t actually exist until you believe it does, but then you are a “very slow thinker” by your own words, so perhaps it shouldn't be a surprise.

Hypocritical, given your own constant demands for evidence, to now suddenly be mocking someone for requesting evidence. Also more ad hominem, this time directly to RuthP by misrepresenting their statements of being a slow thinker.

FounDit wrote:
Well, being a "very slow thinker", perhaps if you spend more time on it, you will eventually allay your suspicions, and learn that accurate descriptions aren't always pejorative.

More ad hominem to avoid actually addressing the issue.

FounDit wrote:
Wrong. You simply recall only that one they quoted, but that’s not a surprise for a slow thinker. Let me help, and please read slowly and pay attention:

More ad hominem.

FounDit wrote:
So by your own admission there is a subset of her patient load consisting of a number of patients? Does this not indicate more than one? And, so what if there are many anecdotes in the same vein? How many does it take before it becomes worthy of your attention, since we now know a group doesn’t exist until you believe it?

Misrepresentation of RuthP's argument

FounDit wrote:
So we should believe nothing “psychologists, as well as psychiatrists and other medical doctors” say — until when? Until you believe it?
So you are always right? Hmmm…couldn’t prove it by what you’ve written here, but okay. If it makes you happy to think so…

Misrepresentation of RuthP's argument

FounDit wrote:
Ultimately, I’m not sure what to do with all that I have read here, since nothing written by any of you alters the stated fact in the slightest way. The simple fact is that psychologists (plural) have reported treating people with what they are calling “Trump Anxiety Disorder”. Your opinion of those reporting that fact is completely irrelevant, and is of no importance whatsoever. I would think that folks possessing logic and reason would realize that, but apparently that isn’t the case here. BTW, a "very slow thinker" can become a deep thinker. It might be worth a try. Then when you post, rather than rush to criticize and find fault with the messenger, you can argue with logic and reason, discussing the actual subject of the message.


Nothing written by you, FounDit, changes the fact that Tammy Bruce is an incredibly biased writer.
Nothing Tammy Bruce writes changes the fact that according to the CBC, multiple psychologists have reported people who have an elevated anxiety directly connected to recent political changes.
Your opinion, FounDit, on RuthP's self-reported slow thinking has nothing to do with any of this and only distracts from any normal debate. It's a long drawn-out ad hominem that makes me wonder why you insist on spending so much time on it rather than on defending your own stance.
Hope123
Posted: Monday, August 6, 2018 8:38:10 AM

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Ruth, I hope you ignore the attacks. I have always been impressed with your knowledge of many subjects and the logic with which you present it. I missed you and your common sense approach when you were too busy travelling to spend time on the forum.

That is hilarious, Andrew! Applause Applause Applause Humour is always the best medicine. Love the last understated line.

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Hope123
Posted: Monday, August 6, 2018 8:45:45 AM

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Lotje, FounDit has now "lost it", pun intended, and as Romany said wandered off because he has no replies to add to his sophistry. Ad hominem is only used when the argument is lost. And he does both a lot.

The demand that Ruth limit her understanding to the link he posted in the OP with a biased version and not look at the original CBC article shows that the posting of this thread was not in good faith but just a further way of trying to denigrate liberals. The original article clearly stated the anxiety phenomenon was across all party lines. All psychologists know the symptoms of anxiety. Neither of the terms are official diagnoses, and whether or not one or more psychologists use the layperson's term for the cause of the anxiety is moot. It is still anecdotal.

Conflating the antics of celebrities like Kathy Griffin with the average person who has reason to fear deportation, loss of job, or even the return to cold war nuclear discussion, is ridiculous.

Furthermore, FD denigrated CNN and MSNBC. The president's mantra of the media being "the enemy of the people" has caused a big increase in death threats to journalists - based on lies. The numbers of deaths of journalists has increased in the world, and if an American journalist is shot by an extremist, their blood will be on Trump's hands. Edited: Just read that Trump now says the media is going to start a war. He's agitating for it just as he did when he hinted his base should use the second amendment on Hillary during the campaign.

It would have been nice to have had an actual discussion of psychology about why this president has made people feel this way. Instead we have more of the same right here on the forum where the well founded fears of people are mocked in an article supported by the poster. I can certainly understand why Canadians losing their jobs because of recent tariffs and the now threatened auto tariffs would definitely have anxiety. Auto tariffs which will probably cause a recession. But hey, Trudeau said Canada won't be pushed around and that hurt Trump's poor little snowflake ego (a term I hate but it surely fits here) so he said all Canadians have fo pay. A vindictive vicious man.

Five hundred children who are now orphans and the wife of a three term veteran deported! He could have stopped both if he'd wanted.

But that's all just academic to people like FD who are well-housed, well-warmed, and well-fed, (forget who said this) who use it to boost their individual prowess without much care for what it means for others.

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Romany
Posted: Monday, August 6, 2018 10:06:44 AM
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Remember that ancient old prank where someone would put a five dollar note on the ground attached to a fishing line and wait for someone to come along and try to pick it up - whereupon it would be pulled away and the person would chase it all over the show?

I recognised Ruth's five dollar note the moment she laid it down and yep! along came punter FD and forgot about everything else chasing it. Icons and acronyms aside, I really did crack a huge grin when he leapt straight for the bait - and I'm guessing Ruth did too.

Ruth was here long before (ok well, about 2 years before, it seems) FD joined. I don't suppose there's any other poster on the Forum who would fall for that bait. Anyone (well, anyone who isn't a Trumpeter) who has read any of her posts over the years could not fail to recognise a fine intellect, an academic background, scientific expertise, and a fair and objective world-view unswayed by political variations and based on the staunchions of truth, facts and critical thinking.

Whereas one could also not fail to see the Trumpist cogs going round..."Well, she said it herself. No-one can accuse me of abuse if I just echo what she herself said. I'm home free! Easy pickings."

Once again:....sigh!
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