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Ahead; vain Options
SG1992
Posted: Friday, June 8, 2018 5:56:50 AM
Rank: Newbie

Joined: 6/6/2018
Posts: 13
Neurons: 87
Hi ;)

Is the use of "ahead" and "vain" correct, please?

You could persuade Anna to help you, but I know ahead that will be vain.

As an alternative, I would use "beforhand" or "in advance" instead of it.


thar
Posted: Friday, June 8, 2018 6:08:32 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 7/8/2010
Posts: 17,417
Neurons: 70,562
You could say 'ahead of time' but it would be more natural to say 'now'.

But if you really wanted to say that, you would say:

I can tell you ahead of time that it will be in vain.

ahead of time / before that / now / in advance

in vain / useless / it won't be successful.


You need to use the idiom 'in vain', because that means 'empty' - like 'vanished'.

But 'vain' on its own is an adjective that means you think you are gorgeous!
leonAzul
Posted: Friday, June 8, 2018 6:23:27 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 8/11/2011
Posts: 8,405
Neurons: 26,726
Location: Miami, Florida, United States
thar wrote:


But 'vain' on its own is an adjective that means you think you are gorgeous!


Fully in agreement with all of the above, even worse, saying only "vain" more pointedly means "narcissistic"!

The idiom "in vain" (without hope of success) is more likely the idiom you are looking for.


"Make it go away, Mrs Whatsit," he whispered. "Make it go away. It's evil."
SG1992
Posted: Friday, June 8, 2018 6:45:13 AM
Rank: Newbie

Joined: 6/6/2018
Posts: 13
Neurons: 87
It is indeed the idiom I was looking for. Thank you both ;)
Drag0nspeaker
Posted: Friday, June 8, 2018 7:13:13 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 9/12/2011
Posts: 29,715
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Location: Livingston, Scotland, United Kingdom
And (surprisingly) no-one thought of "I know already it'll be in vain."

And . . . if you know it will be in vain, you wouldn't say 'you can persuade . . .'
"Persuade" includes the idea of 'successfully'.

The whole thing needs to be:

You could try to persuade Anna to help you, but I know already it will be vain.

persuade, induce, prevail, convince
These verbs mean to succeed in causing a person to do or consent to something. Persuade means to win someone over, as by reasoning or force of personality.

American Heritage

You can try to persuade Anna to help, but it's useless.


Wyrd bið ful aræd - bull!
hedy mmm
Posted: Friday, June 8, 2018 9:38:14 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 7/29/2014
Posts: 1,090
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Location: Borough of Bronx, New York, United States
Hi SG1992,

Your thread reminded me of one of my favorite songs: "You're So Vain" written and performed by Carly Simon and released in November 1972. In August 2014, the UK's Official Charts Co. crowned it the ultimate song of the 1970s. Here are a few of the lyrics:

"You walked into the party like you were walking onto a yacht
Your hat strategically dipped below one eye, your scarf it was apricot

You had one eye in the mirror as you watched yourself gavotte
And all the girls dreamed that they'd be your partner
They'd be your partner, and...(chorus)

Chorus
You're so vain, you probably think this song is about you
You're so vain, I'll bet you think this song is about you
Don't you? Don't you?

You had me several years ago when I was still quite naive
When you said that we made such a pretty pair and that you would never leave

But you gave away the things you loved and one of them was me
I had some dreams, they were clouds in my coffee, clouds in my coffee, and...(chorus)

Well I hear you went up to Saratoga and your horse naturally won
Then you flew your Lear jet up to Nova Scotia to see the total eclipse of the sun

Well you're where you should be all the time
And when you're not you're with some underworld spy or the wife of a close friend, wife of a close friend, and...(chorus)"


If you haven't, you have to hear it...Carly was referring to an actor...you can find the answer in Wikipedia...I know that thar, leoneAzul and DragOnspeaker, will get a kick out of it and probably know it! (i was married in 1970, when I was 2...it's my joke)

Have a great day & weekend guys! Dancing Dancing
and Welcome SG1992 to TFD!
Applause
hedy



"God graced us with today....don't waste it." hedy
SG1992
Posted: Friday, June 8, 2018 1:34:22 PM
Rank: Newbie

Joined: 6/6/2018
Posts: 13
Neurons: 87
I see now :)

Just to be sure -> You could try to persuade Anna to help you, but I know already it will be in vain.

I think you only forgot to add "in", right?

Thank you for your hearty welcome, hedy. Have a good day ;)
thar
Posted: Friday, June 8, 2018 3:10:27 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 7/8/2010
Posts: 17,417
Neurons: 70,562
hedy - I love that song. I love stories with an unreliable or self-deluding storyteller, and the concept of that song is just such fun, such a subversion of nearly all popsongs. d'oh!
NKM
Posted: Friday, June 8, 2018 3:15:43 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 2/14/2015
Posts: 4,761
Neurons: 252,191
Location: Corinth, New York, United States
It's true that "in vain" is the usual idiom, but we can also speak of a "vain" effort or attempt.

hedy mmm
Posted: Friday, June 8, 2018 6:33:05 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 7/29/2014
Posts: 1,090
Neurons: 511,093
Location: Borough of Bronx, New York, United States
thar, I knew you would!...it's always been a favorite of mine. Do you know who she wrote the song about? There was a rumor that there were 3 guys who fit the bill, but it was meant for Warren Beatty.

Here are the lyrics to a 1968 song I know you will enjoy. 'MacArthur Park', sung by Richard Harris...the song recorded was 7.21 minutes long (considered much too long). It was rumored to be 22 minutes long...which wasn't true.)

Spring was never waiting for us, girl
It ran one step ahead
As we followed in the dance
Between the parted pages and were pressed
In love's hot, fevered iron
Like a striped pair of pants

Chorus
MacArthur's Park is melting in the dark
All the sweet, green icing flowing down
Someone left the cake out in the rain
I don't think that I can take it
'Cause it took so long to bake it
And I'll never have that recipe again
Oh no!

I recall the yellow cotton dress
Foaming like a wave
On the ground around your knees
The birds, like tender babies in your hands
And the old men playing checkers by the trees

(Chorus)

There will be another song for me
For I will sing it
There will be another dream for me
Someone will bring it
I will drink the wine while it is warm
And never let you catch me looking at the sun
And after all the loves of my life
After all the loves of my life
You'll still be the one

I will take my life into my hands and I will use it
I will win the worship in their eyes and I will lose it
I will have the things that I desire
And my passion flow like rivers through the sky
And after all the loves of my life
Oh, after all the loves of my life
I'll be thinking of you
And wondering why

(Chorus)
Oh no!, Oh no, No, Oh no!
Songwriters: Adrian Drover / Jimmy Webb


I hope, SG1992, you enjoy this one too! Dancing Dancing
hedy Dancing

"God graced us with today....don't waste it." hedy
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