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Trump and Korea Options
philips daughter
Posted: Monday, May 14, 2018 7:59:40 AM

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Do you think the talks between Trump and Kim will be productive? Do you think Kin is giving in only because his missle site has been destroyed? Would you trust Trump or Kim? Does Trump deserve a Nobel prize?
Romany
Posted: Monday, May 14, 2018 10:32:42 AM
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I think you'll find that only a few Trump supporters - whose knowledge of history, world politics, and current affairs (outside of the USA) is negligible - are the ones talking about a Nobel. The very suggestion proves also that they don't understand either the history or common goal that the Nobel represents.

If you were to read news reports from Europe, Asia, and other countries, you'd see that Trumps involvement is normally discussed as a threat to the whole process and furthering the possibility of war.

It's China who brought about the recent change in Kim's public policy - his "incognito" trip to China was ground-breaking and marked an historical change that will be included in all the history books from now on.

No-one knows what they discussed together and what plans they made for the future. But there's no way either of them take Trumps ever-changing and childish nonsense as anything but what it is - bullying and ignorance. And China's response to Western bullying is known by everyone - with the exception of the Trump administration.

Think about it: if you were a small country in far-away Asia and on one hand, right on your doorstep you had one third of the worlds population with access to millions upon millions of troops, and on the other you had a distant Western country in the grip of an unbalanced bully who contradicts himself and changes his mind and is known for serial lying and switching of loyalties...? Who you gonna call?
thar
Posted: Monday, May 14, 2018 12:53:53 PM

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You have got to wonder how Kim spins the U-turn to his people,though.

One day - we urgently need nuclear missiles (even though you are starving) to attack US sites because they are evil aggressors determined to destroy us imminently.

Next day - we will pause nuclear weapons programme and negotiate.

Neither reason - 'China bribed us', or 'our mountain broke' - seem very justifiable.

Presumably they will go with 'our weapons programme was so successful that the US caved in to our overwhelming power and submitted to us, so we don't need it any more!'
Romany
Posted: Monday, May 14, 2018 1:11:44 PM
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It'll probably be years before we learn what terms they agreed upon - but yeah, it's pretty certain that, when push comes to shove, both would rather stick with the devil they know than deal with the West - especially when Trumps word, handshake or signature is liable to do a volte face when one of his customers at Mar a Largo has a chat with him!

China and Japan are now negotiating too - which shows exactly how determined China is to pick up every bit of slack Trump lets fall.Trump humiliated Abe in the eyes of the world - no government in the East is likely to forget or forgive that.
philips daughter
Posted: Tuesday, May 15, 2018 11:57:12 AM

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I think that China did this deal. First Trump says he’s going to impose new tariffs. Then Kin goes to (was summoned) to China. Kim caves (or his mountain did). Now Trump is backing off the tarrifs. I think it follows.

I’m glad no one could ever conceivably give Trump the Nobel PEACE PRIZE. I was taken aback by Obama winning such a prestigious award. But I thought it wasn’t him an untried man but it was what his election represented. That there was hope on America that we might put to rest our ugly racial past. But no. In many people (46.7% of the population) it was like lancing a festering boil and the pus is flowing. Perhaps it will be cathartic in the long run. But after yesterday in Gaza and Jerusalem his chances of a peace prize is smaller than his hands. Sarah Huckabee Sanders Basically Admits Trump Knew of ‘Pay–to–Play’ Scheme - Splinter
https://apple.news/AUIVa6ybYTLOsgd-atjVh3Q
Hope123
Posted: Tuesday, May 15, 2018 5:26:53 PM

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PD, North Korea didn't agree re a peace prize for Trump and they should know. Only some Repubs agreed with the South Korean leader.

Besides, how could they award a peace prize to him when the Nobel Prize in literature will not be awarded this year after abuse allegations and what just happened to the unarmed 58 Palestinians killed and 2700 injured by Israelis because of his policy re Jerusalem - while Ivanka takes a congratulatory selfie. They all have blood on their hands.

And then there is yet to be seen the fall out from the Iran decision.

The past is to be respected/acknowledged, not worshipped. It is in our future we will find our greatness. Pierre Trudeau
Imran520
Posted: Tuesday, May 29, 2018 1:27:53 AM
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Both are mad Presidents. They don't know about the politics.
Hope123
Posted: Tuesday, May 29, 2018 10:57:34 PM

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North Korea, South Korea, and China no longer need the involvement of the US at all.

The past is to be respected/acknowledged, not worshipped. It is in our future we will find our greatness. Pierre Trudeau
progpen
Posted: Wednesday, June 6, 2018 10:27:35 AM

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Hope123 wrote:
North Korea, South Korea, and China no longer need the involvement of the US at all.


As an American, I see this as very encouraging.

Nolite te bastardes carborundorum
Squawk Box
Posted: Thursday, June 7, 2018 4:34:05 PM

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I trust Trump and if we ever need to nuke NK, then we should. It is just that serious now.
progpen
Posted: Thursday, June 7, 2018 5:44:40 PM

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Romany wrote:

It'll probably be years before we learn what terms they agreed upon


Looks like we found out who wanted to have the summit really bad:
https://www.news.com.au/world/north-america/rudy-giuliani-says-kim-jongun-got-on-his-hands-and-knees-and-begged-for-uskorea-summit/news-story/ad3ec4c41e2376cf054664419900444e
Rudy Giuliani says Kim Jong-un got ‘on his hands and knees’ and begged for US-Korea summit

If Rudy said so, it's gotta be true.

Nolite te bastardes carborundorum
philips daughter
Posted: Tuesday, June 12, 2018 1:37:30 PM

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Trump gave NK everything they could want. Prestige and world attention and hey! China gets our navy pushed back to Japan, maybe. And Donald gets a Noble Prize! All is well.
Hope123
Posted: Tuesday, June 12, 2018 7:20:01 PM

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All nationalists have the power of not seeing resemblances between similar sets of facts. Actions are held to be good or bad, not on their own merits, but according to who does them.”
― George Orwell

Compare how Fox News talked when Obama considered going to talk to N. Korea and what they are saying now when Trump went. They have surely changed their tune.

Also - Let me get this straight: the US got tons of concessions and a real commitment from Iran, but that deal was bad. The US got no concessions or real commitment from North Korea, and this is good???. And Trump did give concessions.

But we're glad to see the "pissing contest" is over, for now anyhow. Trump said no deal unless complete denuclearization, so let's wait and see how this plays out. We can give credit when it is due. It may be a good beginning or "Kimmie" may go back to his old ways. His only protection is nuclear arming. Neither one of them is particularly good at not changing their mind.

According to an American who has checked all the negotiations for years (see link below), the "Fun true fact is: North Korea previously pledged denuclearization in 1985, 1992, 1994, 2002, 2003, 2005, 2006, 2008, 2010, 2011, 2012 and 2016. Each pledge was a lie. If you believe any promise Kim made to Trump, I have five failed casinos in Atlantic City to sell you."

https://www.armscontrol.org/factsheets/dprkchron



The past is to be respected/acknowledged, not worshipped. It is in our future we will find our greatness. Pierre Trudeau
Romany
Posted: Tuesday, June 12, 2018 7:24:50 PM
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Just as we have no way of finding out what terms Kim Jong Un and China discussed; we have no way of knowing what Trump & North Korea got up to, either. Swapping hair-care tips? But after his repudiation of the G6 document just hours after signing it, I don't think any country anywhere else is going to hold their breath for that Nobel to be awarded!
mactoria
Posted: Wednesday, June 13, 2018 5:25:59 AM
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I don't think folks are giving South Korea enough credit for their "change election" of President Moon who has actively pursued peace with North Korea. South Koreans want peace and security, and because of their cultural/family values they also want a chance to reunite with their relatives in the North who they have had little to no contact with for decades. Seventy years living separate from their northern relatives, fearing hostilities breaking out again, particularly nuclear hostilities threatening their very existence, have caused South Koreans to feel that now is the time to try to find a peaceful co-existence. I think Trump would have met with Kim regardless because he wants the 'score,' he did have the agreement and encouragement of South Korea --- though South Korea expressed shock when Trump said the US would discontinue 'war games' with South Korea. I wonder what Japan (who we are bound by both treaty and war armistice to protect) thinks of US military disengagement before we're sure North Korea is denuclearized.

China, the regional 800 lb gorilla, did give Kim Jong Un support and/or a push to work with both South Korea and the US. China wants a North Korea that it doesn't have to prop up and which can become another economic market for it to sell to at some point in the future. China also doesn't want a war, nuclear or traditional, so close to its shores, which would inevitably draw it in and would bring it up against the US's nuclear arsenal. China is a communist government that has allowed/encouraged a demi-capitalistic economy and is straddling a fence between wanting a peaceful world for its people and its acquisitive, aggressive nature; with over a billion people, a peaceful, non-violent expansion across world markets seems to be more China's goal these days than all out war.

I personally didn't have a problem with a US president meeting with a North Korean "Dear Leader" to begin a dialog, unlike most international experts who were horrified at the appearance of legitimizing Kim who is after all North Korea's real leader. But Trump gets 'negative credit' for hyping up the tension with North Korea for the past year and a half, bringing the reality of war, nuclear or traditional, to frightening levels (as a West Coast American I can attest to how nervous some of us feel). This bellicosity wasn't necessary and was unAmericanly provocative (and juvenile to boot). I don't think threatening nuclear night merits a Nobel Peace Prize for anyone (war breaking out with North Korea would draw in South Korea, Japan, probably China, and treaty partners like Australia etc, and would give Russia an opportune time to jump in on a side, creating a hemispheric holocaust). Poking a resting bear so it gets angry enough to attack, then handing it a bottle of honey to calm it down, doesn't make you St Francis of Assisi; it's stupidity that could get you killed.

Whether Kim Jong Un and his country can be trusted (pointed out in Hope's last post), is a huge question. I personally don't think he's a rational leader, he has given every indication in the past of being totally uncaring about his people and willing to feed and treat himself and his chosen cadre while everyone else starves or are incarcerated in horrible camps. He, not totally unlike Trump, has cultivated a cult of personality among his people, the "Dear Leader." I can see Kim engaging in a nuclear war while hiding himself safely somewhere else. It's possible I'm wrong and he is rational, but I doubt it. I remember too well the hoopla in 2006-7 when Bush #43 had a deal with his Kim's father to tear down their nuclear capacity: the TV shots of nuclear plants being shut down and destroyed. Clearly they either rebuilt them quickly or only destroyed what was no longer needed (give North Korea credit for its ability to hid its weapons capability from even our best spy planes). Like everyone in this hemisphere, I'd love it if Kim truly decided to de-nuclearize and make a better life for his people and the US could begin withdrawal from the DMZ; I just won't believe it until years down the road when it's provably true. I hope that Trump hasn't given up too much in advance in exchange for another 'nothingburger.'
Hope123
Posted: Wednesday, June 13, 2018 4:34:22 PM

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Squawk Box wrote:
I trust Trump and if we ever need to nuke NK, then we should. It is just that serious now.


What if another country feels it ever needs to nuke the US? Then they should?

::::

Excellent points, Mactoria.

Since South Korea's election, South and North Korea and China seemed to be doing just fine without the US. Also, thanks for reminding us that some of us were more vulnerable than others during the unnecessary tension that was provoked. We all make jokes to try to alleviate anxiety, forgetting that real people's lives and livelihoods are strongly affected by Trump's behaviour. I think he forgets that - or doesn't care.

The past is to be respected/acknowledged, not worshipped. It is in our future we will find our greatness. Pierre Trudeau
TMe
Posted: Thursday, June 14, 2018 12:45:30 PM

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Joint Peace Nobel Prize for Trump and Kim..




I am a layman.
Ashwin Joshi
Posted: Thursday, June 14, 2018 12:57:02 PM

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They greet each other warmly before the cameras and then head to a separate room. The US president says the two men are going to have a 'terrific relationship' and that the summit will be 'tremendously successful'
.


What does the term 'terrific relationship' in a separate room mean here?



Who was the winner, will tell you in an hour or so.

Me Gathering Pebbles at The Seashore.-Aj
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