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President’s conniption two days before inauguration Options
Helenej
Posted: Sunday, May 6, 2018 4:59:07 PM

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I wonder why should a legitimate president, who has been elected by 77% of the vote, throw a conniption fit about a few thousand people’s peaceful protest in the capital city? (Moscow, Russia, 5th May, 2018)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C6BqDxTKRjc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yLncmMR0Img
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WxcFxzyGz0k
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZIeTVqd1w0s&list=PLaYUXFB4rz9Mmnat6_wsSLEwATKu7JF4J
mactoria
Posted: Monday, May 7, 2018 2:52:38 AM
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Because he thought he'd engineer a 100% vote victory? Popular vote is always a messy thing, and some presidents/autocrats can't handle any disagreement at all.
Helenej
Posted: Monday, May 7, 2018 11:54:30 AM

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mactoria wrote:
Because he thought he'd engineer a 100% vote victory?

To reach 100% is only possible in totalitarian regimes like the USSR or North Korea. Putin realizes well that his result of 77% would have been much lower if there hadn’t been the mass electoral offences and if the public employees hadn’t been forced to vote for him. The rest of the 77% in fact voted not for him, but “against war” since they are thoroughly brainwashed to believe that the world’s only goal is to destroy Russia and only Putin can help.
Drag0nspeaker
Posted: Monday, May 7, 2018 12:40:50 PM

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Helenj wrote:
in fact voted not for him, but “against war” since they are thoroughly brainwashed to believe that the world’s only goal is to destroy Russia and only Putin can help.

Is that right?
We (over here is the "civilised" (HAH!) world) don't really know what ideas are brainwashed in, in some areas.

We (in Britain) can see that Americans are brainwashed with the false idea that everyone wants to be American, and that any country having internal difficulties really, really wants the USA to invade and destroy its infrastructure.

I know some of the ones for Britain - but I'm sure I miss a lot. Some are opposed (huge marketing and PR campaigns with opposing messages, from different political parties - same as in the USA) which spoils the effect.
A few seem to be pushed in media from both sides.
"No matter what's wrong, there's a pill to completely handle it."
"Any child who likes to play physically or gets bored in class needs to be drugged." (There are some genuine cases but not 70% of all kids!)
"Everyone has some mental illness or another, but it can be handled by schools having permission to drug children from six years old, without asking the parents."

Wyrd bið ful aræd - bull!
Helenej
Posted: Monday, May 7, 2018 1:18:59 PM

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Drag0nspeaker wrote:
We (in Britain) can see that Americans are brainwashed with the false idea that ... any country having internal difficulties really, really wants the USA to invade and destroy its infrastructure.

I would say that any country has internal difficulties at any point of time. How many of them has America invaded and in how many of them has America destroyed their infrastructure?
BobShilling
Posted: Monday, May 7, 2018 2:41:47 PM
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Drag0nspeaker wrote:

We (over here is the "civilised" (HAH!) world) don't really know what ideas are brainwashed in, in some areas.


I agree. As a septuagenarian, I can see clearly that many of the things I believed as child to be self-evidently true were the result of what I would now call brain-washing.

I like to think that, at my advanced age, I am old, wise and experienced enough not to be taken in, Unfortunately, however, successful brainwashing is successful precisely because those brain-washed do not realise that that their own sensible, logical, reasonable thoughts are not their own and that the ideas are probably not sensible, logical or reasonable.
progpen
Posted: Monday, May 7, 2018 6:53:17 PM

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BobShilling wrote:
Drag0nspeaker wrote:

We (over here is the "civilised" (HAH!) world) don't really know what ideas are brainwashed in, in some areas.


I agree. As a septuagenarian, I can see clearly that many of the things I believed as child to be self-evidently true were the result of what I would now call brain-washing.


Same here. I am able now to see how much of what I learned as a kid and a teenager (and even as a young adult in the military) was a very narrow view of a very large picture.

Nolite te bastardes carborundorum
Helenej
Posted: Tuesday, May 8, 2018 2:38:51 AM

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progpen wrote:
BobShilling wrote:
As a septuagenarian, I can see clearly that many of the things I believed as child to be self-evidently true were the result of what I would now call brain-washing.

Same here. I am able now to see how much of what I learned as a kid and a teenager (and even as a young adult in the military) was a very narrow view of a very large picture.

Being or not being brainwashed does not depend on age. It depends on our sincere desire to know the truth and access to the Internet.Angel
Drag0nspeaker
Posted: Tuesday, May 8, 2018 5:17:01 AM

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Yes - access to the internet (and the willingness to look at various viewpoints) helps a lot.
When I was young (and Bob and Progpen) there was not even TV to any degree.
What I knew of the world came from the BBC (intensely conservative and still celebrating the British Empire), children's literature (in which all evil characters were German or Japanese and all heroes were British, private-school educated, officers - often supported by down-to-earth, rather unintelligent but well-meaning working-class privates and adored by totally unthinking upper-class women).
Even Science Fiction stories were similar, though they were set on other planets, the hero always spoke perfect "BBC English" while minor characters had Cornish or Northern accents, and villains looked and sounded vaguely oriental. Thugs were usually Slavic-looking or Oriental.
These 'almost invisible' biases in all British literature, films, etc from that period produced (as Bob says) "what appeared to be self-evidently true".
Everyone knew that all Germans and Japanese were evil (this was even into the 1960s); all Slavic types were stupid and thug-like; people who spoke with a British accent other than "perfect BBC" were inferior and needed to be ordered by 'properly educated' Oxford graduates.
This is the real brainwashing - it doesn't come from 'news', it comes from ordinary life. It's the attitude of the normal person, which children come to know as being 'obviously true'.

***************
American invasions? - The ones I remember from my youth are:
Vietnam, Korea, Philippines, Cuba, Lebanon, Panama, Iraq, Haiti (there may be more)

Later there's Kuwait, Iraq (again), Bosnia, Kosovo, Afghanistan.

I'm sure some of them are justified (Milosevic was a definitely nasty character) but invading and supporting rebels because you don't like the legal government is not a normal action for most countries.

This is a section of a report in "The Guardian" - a fairly well-respected paper.

Quote:
"In reality, US and western policy in the conflagration that is now the Middle East is in the classic mould of imperial divide-and-rule. American forces bomb one set of rebels while backing another in Syria, and mount what are effectively joint military operations with Iran against Isis in Iraq while supporting Saudi Arabia’s military campaign against Iranian-backed Houthi forces in Yemen. However confused US policy may often be, a weak, partitioned Iraq and Syria fit such an approach perfectly.

What’s clear is that Isis and its monstrosities won’t be defeated by the same powers that brought it to Iraq and Syria in the first place, or whose open and covert war-making has fostered it in the years since. Endless western military interventions in the Middle East have brought only destruction and division. It’s the people of the region who can cure this disease – not those who incubated the virus."



Wyrd bið ful aræd - bull!
Kirill Vorobyov
Posted: Tuesday, May 8, 2018 5:34:50 AM

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Helenej wrote:
To reach 100% is only possible in totalitarian regimes like the USSR or North Korea. Putin realizes well that his result of 77% would have been much lower if there hadn’t been the mass electoral offences and if the public employees hadn’t been forced to vote for him.


There have been reports of a number of cases of fraud. I think they even had to cancel the results in 14 precincts or so. The truth is however that Putin does have an overwhelming public support, so he did win by a very big margin, whether it's 77% or 75%...

In fact in preparation for this election he himself was the driver, in fact visibly against the will of a lot of the rest of the political class, behind improving the system to minimize election fraud. And in my view in doing this his political calculus was that (i) he did not need the fraud to win, and (b) the flip side of winning an election with the help of fraud is that you then owe to people who helped you organize the fraud. So why be in debt if you can do without it.


Helenej wrote:
The rest of the 77% in fact voted not for him, but “against war” since they are thoroughly brainwashed to believe that the world’s only goal is to destroy Russia


(1) The brain washing along these lines has been pretty intense and disruptive, I agree. All those TV screamers about how America is bad and how West is bad, and Ukraine is bad, and so on. Why, they ("they" = Russian + Western comrades) even put all of us on the brink of a nuclear world war just a few weeks ago. I've never been a particularly religeous person but I did thank God wholeheartedly when it all played out relatively harmless.

This brainwashing takes place not only in Russia, though. In other important countries it is ongoing just as well. The effectiveness seems to be limited, however (or is this my wishful thinking?d'oh! ), and it's getting increasingly diluted, at least here. I mean in particular that "creation of a world conflict" project, I don't have an opinion on how effective they are on all sorts of other ideas that people behind world media are trying to force in our heads.

(2) Putin has public support because the country is changing, little by little, in the positive direction. I mean, economically, and why - even the electoral system. Infrastructure is improving, and so on. People see it. And in a country like Russia such positive changes can only take place if the drive for them comes from the very top. This is unfortunate, because then we very much depend on personalities. Which is a threat. Ideally, it is a system that should work. On that front we still seem to have a lot to do.




Helenej
Posted: Thursday, May 10, 2018 1:52:25 AM

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Drag0nspeaker wrote:
American invasions? - The ones I remember from my youth are:
Vietnam, Korea, Philippines, Cuba, Lebanon, Panama, Iraq, Haiti (there may be more)

Later there's Kuwait, Iraq (again), Bosnia, Kosovo, Afghanistan.

Ah, that is what you call “internal difficulties”. They may seem difficulties to you, who have lived all your life safely and freely in a safe and free country. You’ve been breathing freedom without noticing it, just like we don’t notice air we breath. But in fact, in many cases, those “internal difficulties” were about establishing a communist dictatorship. And the USA interfered after the Soviet Union had already interfered, either politically or with its military forces. Communism means shortage of food, clothes and lots of simple things. It means political and social oppression, violence, mass killing, closed borders and the necessity to say what you are expected to say rather than what you think, and that for all your life!. I believe it’s worth trying to eliminate its spreading by interfering into other countries’ affairs than to have people suffer for decades in communist countries. And I sure if communists came to real power in Scotland, you would be the first one who would call, “America, help!”.
Helenej
Posted: Thursday, May 10, 2018 2:24:07 AM

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Kirill Vorobyov wrote:
Putin has public support because the country is changing, little by little, in the positive direction.

Do you call this "changing in the positive direction"?



Over the 18 years of Putin’s reign, the number of hospitals has decreased by half, and the number of schools has decreased by 37%. Is the change in these numbers a progress, too?

Kirill Vorobyov
Posted: Thursday, May 10, 2018 9:49:36 AM

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Helenej wrote:
Kirill Vorobyov wrote:
Putin has public support because the country is changing, little by little, in the positive direction.

Do you call this "changing in the positive direction"?



Over the 18 years of Putin’s reign, the number of hospitals has decreased by half, and the number of schools has decreased by 37%. Is the change in these numbers a progress, too?



This is dollar-nominated GDP, it reflects variations in exchange rate. The actual ruble-nominated GDP adjusted for inflation has not been as bad, although I think even there there was a decline in some years.

When I say "the country is changing in a positive direction" I convey a general feeling that many people have living here. Sometimes it's not only about GDP. The problem with GDP is that it is an aggregate number, while the quality of people's lives depends as much on the structure of the economy as it is on the overall size of the pie.

For example, if there's a 10% decline in GDP because of fallen oil export, but at the same time this decline is partially made up by, say, an 8% increase in domestic production of other goods and services, then many people may even feel it as a modest improvement, even though statistically GDP falls by 2% as a result. This is because distribution of income becomes broader. The oil money would largely have stayed with a small group of rich, while the increased production of other goods/services may have given job to many.

So it's always a complex analysis, it's never about the aggregate GDP only.

About hospitals and schools - some may have been closed, true. They called it "optimization", and I agree some of it may well have been taken too far. I don't have the statistics. The one you have looks exaggerated, but I can't say for sure. Again, I don't know of children not being able to go to school because of this, though I may not be aware of it if it happens in some far-away region.
Helenej
Posted: Sunday, June 24, 2018 6:07:03 PM

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Kirill Vorobyov wrote:
Putin has public support because the country is changing, little by little, in the positive direction.

As I can see, the changes in the positive direction are speeding up. Now the men in Russia will retire at 65 while the life expectancy for them is only 65.3, according to 2017 data from the CIA World Factbook.

From now on, Putin will be enjoying even stronger public support, I suppose.
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