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Reform of the Calendar Options
Kirill Vorobyov
Posted: Monday, April 9, 2018 5:59:31 AM

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Location: Moscow, Moscow, Russia
Hello, everybody!

I "tested" this idea on another forum some time ago and got mixed reactions. But the idea doesn't go out of my mind - so simple, logical and fruitful it seems to me. So I wonder what the reactions will be this time.

It has to do with the calendar most countries use these days.

The calendar we are currently using is rather clumsy, isn't it? With months of unequal duration (28/29/30/31 days), and months not streamlined with weeks. This is like measuring distance in miles and kilometers at the same time, using different measures for different purposes- e.g. kilometers for marking distance between places and at the same time using miles per hour for measuring speed, so you'd have to make a complex calculation each time you want to know how many hours it'll take you to cover 700 km at the speed of 70 miles/hr.

What I propose is a calendar that contains 13 months , each lasting for exactly 4 weeks (28 days). So each month would begin on Monday and finish on Sunday. Every year the same thing.

13 months * 28 days = 364 days.

The remaining one day (or two days in a leap year) I propose to designate a special name, not part of any month or week, make it the first day (or the first two days in a leap year) of the year and just call it "New Year 20XX". For most people it's a holiday anyway. The labor contracts would need to provide separately for compensation for a New Year day if one may have to work that day.

So the proposed new calendar goes like this:

00/01/2019 New Year 2019

01/01/2019 Monday
...
01/07/2019 Sunday
01/08/2019 Monday
...
...
01/28/2019 Sunday

02/01/2019 Monday
...
...
...
13/28/2019 Sunday (last day of 2019)

00/01/2020 New Year 2020
00/02/2020 ... we'll need to invent a good name for this day that will happen only once in 4 years, in leap years. What about Celestial Day 2020?

01/01/2020 Monday
etc...

No need to check with calendars, everything's streamlined and simple.
What do you think of this?





Donthailand
Posted: Monday, April 9, 2018 7:33:14 AM
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It'll never work. Some people will miss their birthdays...
gissy
Posted: Monday, April 9, 2018 8:29:19 AM
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sounds like a good idea to me.sign me up.Applause
thar
Posted: Monday, April 9, 2018 9:07:21 AM

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Sorry, dupe.
thar
Posted: Monday, April 9, 2018 9:07:22 AM

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You are reinventing the wheel. Something like this already exists!

The Old Icelandic calendar has 12 months of 30 days, an 'extra summer' of 4 days every year, and eleven days every five or six years. So days of the month always fall on the same day.
Last year was a long Sumarauki, from 19 - 30 July. It is always Wed - Sat, whether 4 days or 11.




The first days of each month are celebrated. Eg, there are are only two seasons - winter ('short days') and summer ('night disappears). Summer starts on the first day of Harpa, which is a Thursday. This year it falls on April 19.

The Christians think they and the Gregorian calendar won - but people still celebrate the first days.
Whistle

Winter starts on the first day of Gor (slaughter month), in October. People serve meat soup free in the prison and on the streets to celebrate.
Other first days are feasts with traditional foods, or dedicated to family, to men, or to women ( you pamper, cook for, and give presents to the man or woman of the house - sort of like mothers' day or fathers' day.)

Summer starts on the first day of Harpa. It is a national public holiday, with parades and lots of events and celebrations.


(Summer is about day length, not the weather! Whistle )

Kirill Vorobyov
Posted: Monday, April 9, 2018 9:11:21 AM

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Location: Moscow, Moscow, Russia
Donthailand wrote:
It'll never work. Some people will miss their birthdays...


Well, reforms of the calendar have taken place before. In Russia, for example, the last time it happened was in 1918 (pushing all dates 13 days forward to align it with Western Europe).

People got along with the need to re-calculate dates, birthdays included, even though those earlier reforms never brought about benefits nearly as substantial and obvious as the one I propose will.
Kirill Vorobyov
Posted: Monday, April 9, 2018 9:18:02 AM

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thar wrote:
You are reinventing the wheel. Something like this already exists!

The Old Icelandic calendar has 12 months of 30 days, an 'extra summer' of 4 days every year, and eleven days every five or six years. So days of the month always fall on the same day.
Last year was a long Sumarauki, from 19 - 30 July. It is always Wed - Sat, whether 4 days or 11.



No, I don't agree this is the same "wheel". This sounds way too complicated to me.

What I propose is a very simple, easily understandable, and regular system.
thar
Posted: Monday, April 9, 2018 9:27:53 AM

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I was kidding - I don't think you can rationalise the calendar. The revolutionary French tried and failed.

And it is a very simple system, in fact!

It only looks complicated when you map it onto the Gregorian calendar.
But in the Icelandic one everything is completely regular, year on year. Whistle
Orson Burleigh
Posted: Monday, April 9, 2018 10:39:20 AM

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Think That is an interesting calendar, but a change of that magnitude is probably unobtainable. More than a century of futile fiddling with various versions of Daylight Staving Time seems to prove that humans, at least the denizens of northern regions, have a serious collective propensity to lie to ourselves about when it is.
jacobusmaximus
Posted: Monday, April 9, 2018 2:49:59 PM

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I have never heard of a single soul that has even the slightest difficulty with the calendar as it is.

I remember, therefore I am.
thar
Posted: Monday, April 9, 2018 4:09:33 PM

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I do!

I can never be quite sure how many days there are in the month, or when the next one starts. So I never know the date!

I know February and December and am pretty confident about August; sketchy on April - but the others I have to work out, every single time!
I'm not that thick, am I? Don't other people have the same problem?
"Thirty days hath September..." and all that?


Also the ridiculous difference in stating dates - day/month/year in UK, month/day/year in US, means that a significant proportion of the time you can't even tell what date someone is referring to, unless you know where they are from! d'oh!


And of course the changeover from Julius to Gregory left odd things like the October Revolution in November.

And that stupid story that so many people in England were upset at the change because they thought they had lost days from their lives. That insult is still perpetuated in textbooks. That was only in a satirical political cartoon, for God's sake - an election poke.
In fact, the people had a genuine grievance - the landlords were charging normal rent for the quarter but the tenants had 11 fewer days to earn money. So they were being screwed. It went to Parliament and they had to pass a law reducing the rents. Given the power of landowners in government at the time, that was a major success for people-power.Dancing
And put people off messing with the calendar again!
Drag0nspeaker
Posted: Monday, April 9, 2018 4:45:24 PM

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I suppose I could work out my "new birthday" as 365 days after the last one - but (unlike thar) I don't have a problem with dates. I have a problem with "what day is it?" sometimes (I work day and night shifts in blocks of three or four - so when I'm going home at 7am on Tuesday, my work calendar - and my body - has it as the end of Monday's shift. d'oh! d'oh! )

The question "Is 04/03/2018 really the third of April or the fourth of March?" is a bind.
The most logical one for computer sorting is 2018/05/16 - for the sixteenth of May, I suppose, but no-one bothers with that one.

Even Microsoft have two different methods - I have a folder of several files by date.
When I open the folder normally, it's sorted in date order:
01-04-18
02-04-18
20-04-18
23-04-18
04-05-18
22-01-19

When I open it as an attachment (I send the files attached to e-mails) it's sorted by the first number:
01-04-18
02-04-18
04-05-18
20-04-18
22-01-19
23-04-18

The really upsetting thing to many of the British people (besides the rent issue) was that Gregory's 'lost ten days' put the "naturally observable" events out of kilter.
Prior to the change, Mayday was always considered the beginning of summer - it was 46 days before midsummer, the longest day of the year. Hallows (the first of November) was the start of winter, 46 days before the longest night. And so on.
So the religious holidays matched the visible signs of sunrise and sunset for people who didn't read - or didn't have calendars.
After the change, it didn't work. The Mayflowers (a particular species of thorn-bush) were an integral part of the celebrations - the first blossoms always appeared on May the first. Suddenly, they didn't bloom until the eleventh! There were none to be found when the calendar said it was Mayday!


Wyrd bið ful aræd - bull!
Jyrkkä Jätkä
Posted: Tuesday, April 10, 2018 4:57:30 AM

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I once tried this new wine diet.
Within a week I lost three days.


In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.
Islami
Posted: Tuesday, April 10, 2018 12:13:00 PM
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Joined: 7/21/2017
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No Sense. Astronomers who have invented the present calendar are no stupid persons. This calendar has astronomical historical reasons in the background and we the normals have no right to interfere. It coincides with seasons, festivals, birthday and movement of planets. The calendar is not based on dates only. It has date with galaxies, celestial bodies, satellites, computer software, telecommunication, transport, air-travel and innumerable other scientific and crops rotation and propagation.

After few years, Christmas, Deewali and Eid festivals will never be at the appropriate time. That’s why the present calendar is perpetual and flawless.
Born in 20th century, cant find fault of BC unless of the level of Einstein, Stephen Hawking or Carl Segan.

Such stupid ideas have been propagated by many maniacs many a times in history. But none worked.


Just because the writer of an article is British doesn't mean that they use English correctly-DragOnspeaker.
TMe
Posted: Tuesday, April 10, 2018 12:34:43 PM

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Consider the following;

This year, Easter falls on April 5 — but, as those who celebrate the major Christian holiday will know, the day doesn’t stay in one place for long. Easter is one of the “moveable feasts,” a holiday that falls on a different calendar date each year. It’s calculated as the first Sunday after the first full moon on or after the vernal equinox.

Though the beginning of spring generally happens around the same time every year — the church uses March 21 as the date — the lunar calendar and the Gregorian calendar don’t match up, which means the timing of the full moon can change quite a bit. (This year, that full moon came on April 4.) Easter thus has about a month’s worth of time in which to move around.


LILY ROTHMAN April 5, 2015


I am a layman.
hedy mmm
Posted: Tuesday, April 10, 2018 9:47:16 PM

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Joined: 7/29/2014
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Jyrkkä Jätkä wrote:
I once tried this new wine diet.
Within a week I lost three days.


Love it Jyrkkä Jätkä!Applause Applause
So, that's what happened? because I lost four days Shhh ....maybe 'cause I'm a girl?...Think you know, "the weaker vessel"...or maybe my vessels...
Yikes...too much thinking, think I'll have more wine! d'oh!

hedy



"God graced us with today....don't waste it." hedy
TMe
Posted: Wednesday, April 11, 2018 10:13:46 AM

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The Weaker........but still a vessel.


“Likewise, ye husbands, dwell with them according to knowledge, giving honour unto the wife, as unto the weaker vessel, and as being heirs together of the grace of life; that your prayers be not hindered.”

I am a layman.
leonAzul
Posted: Wednesday, April 11, 2018 11:20:20 PM

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Joined: 8/11/2011
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Location: Miami, Florida, United States
Kirill Vorobyov wrote:
Hello, everybody!

I "tested" this idea on another forum some time ago and got mixed reactions. But the idea doesn't go out of my mind - so simple, logical and fruitful it seems to me. So I wonder what the reactions will be this time.

It has to do with the calendar most countries use these days.

The calendar we are currently using is rather clumsy, isn't it? With months of unequal duration (28/29/30/31 days), and months not streamlined with weeks. This is like measuring distance in miles and kilometers at the same time, using different measures for different purposes- e.g. kilometers for marking distance between places and at the same time using miles per hour for measuring speed, so you'd have to make a complex calculation each time you want to know how many hours it'll take you to cover 700 km at the speed of 70 miles/hr.

What I propose is a calendar that contains 13 months , each lasting for exactly 4 weeks (28 days). So each month would begin on Monday and finish on Sunday. Every year the same thing.

13 months * 28 days = 364 days.

The remaining one day (or two days in a leap year) I propose to designate a special name, not part of any month or week, make it the first day (or the first two days in a leap year) of the year and just call it "New Year 20XX". For most people it's a holiday anyway. The labor contracts would need to provide separately for compensation for a New Year day if one may have to work that day.

So the proposed new calendar goes like this:

00/01/2019 New Year 2019

01/01/2019 Monday
...
01/07/2019 Sunday
01/08/2019 Monday
...
...
01/28/2019 Sunday

02/01/2019 Monday
...
...
...
13/28/2019 Sunday (last day of 2019)

00/01/2020 New Year 2020
00/02/2020 ... we'll need to invent a good name for this day that will happen only once in 4 years, in leap years. What about Celestial Day 2020?

01/01/2020 Monday
etc...

No need to check with calendars, everything's streamlined and simple.
What do you think of this?







The problem with a 13 month annual calendar is that it doesn't neatly divide the year into halves and quarters, although, like the 7 day week, it does more closely align with the approximately 13 lunations of 28—29 days per annum.

Most historical calendars try one formula or another to reconcile these essentially non-aligned periodic events. A similar "reasonable" solution would be 12 months in 4 and 5 week patterns, like A:4-5-4, B:4-5-4, C:4-5-4, D:4-5-4, with intercalary days between groups B and C or D and A as required.

"Make it go away, Mrs Whatsit," he whispered. "Make it go away. It's evil."
Islami
Posted: Monday, April 16, 2018 11:59:34 AM
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It is not a simple mathematical equations.

Just because the writer of an article is British doesn't mean that they use English correctly-DragOnspeaker.
thar
Posted: Monday, April 16, 2018 12:57:07 PM

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Why do you need weeks at all?
Years and days are clearly defined, and months have a reason, even if it is inexact in its execution. A fortnight, maybe, if you count the waxing and waning moons. But weeks?

With all respect to the Ancient Babylonians (blame them for hours and seconds, as well) the week has lost its mojo.
The one we seem to have inherited lost its lunar origins millenia ago, and became purely administrative - it sounds like a good compromise for priests to divide time into weeks - it is often enough to get everybody together, tell them what to do and get their money, but not so often they haven't got the time or energy to do it. Or, on the credit side, it gave most people a rest from work at regular intervals. So God conveniently created the Earth in six days and rested on the seventh. Think what he might have come up with if he worked Sundays! Whistle

But those times are long gone in many countries. Maybe not in Muslim ones, or devout Christian ones (or Orthodox Jewish areas of London where even the pedestrian crossing traffic lights are turned on to automatic sequence on Friday afternoon!) - I don't know about other religions. But for many people it is the 'weekend', not the sabbath + 1. Many people in retail and services work weekends, so why make it any different? A lot of schools have two-week timetables, so why not have fourteen days? Why not 28? Think of the opportunities for promoting diversity - after all the present days of the week in English are rather culturally skewed - Mani, Tiw, Woden, Thor, Freyja.
A bit of Judaeo-Christian-Islamic, Hindu, Buddhist, Jain [insert religion here], animist of all cultures, would be a good gesture of inclusiveness!
Or just keep to the solar system theme, some more planets, including the dwarf planets - to be added to as they are named. I mean, who wouldn't be eager to get up on Makemakeday or Quaoarday!

So maybe it is time to throw off the shackles of the week, imposed on everyone's lives, controlling their lives and work patterns.
It is just a bourgeois habit, after all.
We need to break these chains!

Whistle
Kirill Vorobyov
Posted: Tuesday, April 17, 2018 7:48:04 AM

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Whether it makes its original sense or not, the week has become way too embedded in human lives as a standard time interval governing human activities. It's a very stable structure.

Unlike it, months are completely artificial and ridiculous in their present shape. So my idea is to stick to weeks, and regularize months, streamlining them with weeks.
Kirill Vorobyov
Posted: Tuesday, April 17, 2018 7:54:09 AM

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leonAzul wrote:

The problem with a 13 month annual calendar is that it doesn't neatly divide the year into halves and quarters, ...


The only area where this is important is business and tax reporting. They'll have to forget about "quarterly reports" and live with monthly and yearly ones.

On the upside, they're going to have months of exactly equal duration and number of workdays.
Drag0nspeaker
Posted: Tuesday, April 17, 2018 9:33:02 AM

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Ah but, ah but . . .

I work on a twenty-one-day rota. We have three people to watch the building all day, every day, 365¼ days a year.
The only way to that is to do seven nights and seven days each - in each twenty-one days.

Four-week months would just ruin the whole thing. I'd end up sleeping when I should be working and eating when I should be sleeping - most confusing!
As thar says, the week has lost its mojo. A weekend day is no different to a weekday now, except for some fundamentalists, for whom Friday evening, Saturday and Sunday have ritual meaning - but even they can't agree on which bit of that period is the main bit.

Days are set, fixed, observable (sunrise, midday, sunset, midnight) everywhere except Alaska, Iceland and bits of Siberia.
Years are set (longest day, equinox, shortest day, hurricane season, monsoon, flood of the Nile, etc).
Everything else is arbitrary. Below that we get into pure maths and number theory.

Twenty-four hours is a pretty good breakdown. The day can be divided up into halves, thirds, quarters, sixths, eighths, twelfths very easily.
One hour is about the longest period most people can estimate fairly accurately without external reference, and is about the shortest time most people can fairly accurately recognise just by observing the sun.

OK - sixty is arbitrary - but it has been in use for so long (and again, sixty divides so easily into convenient 'bits'). It's much more logical than decimal and more convenient than binary.

So I think we just need years, days, hours, minutes, seconds - for normal life, even seconds are not really needed.

It is now 14:32:17 on the 107th of 2018.


Wyrd bið ful aræd - bull!
Kirill Vorobyov
Posted: Tuesday, April 17, 2018 10:18:39 AM

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Drag0nspeaker wrote:

Four-week months would just ruin the whole thing. I'd end up sleeping when I should be working and eating when I should be sleeping - most confusing!



Why is this? Your work schedule is organized in 7 days intervals, that's Okay. Why would the four week months be any less compatible with this than the current chaotically organized "months" that have come from who knows where?
TMe
Posted: Wednesday, April 18, 2018 11:16:34 AM

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Drag0nspeaker wrote:

Four-week months would just ruin the whole thing. I'd end up sleeping when I should be working and eating when I should be sleeping - most confusing!

Applause Applause Applause Applause Applause Applause Applause


I am a layman.
Drag0nspeaker
Posted: Wednesday, April 18, 2018 12:13:43 PM

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Kirill Vorobyov wrote:
Why is this? Your work schedule is organised in 7 days intervals, that's Okay.

It's my mistake - trying to be brief.
Work isn't organised in seven-day cycles, it is in 21-day cycles.

4 day-shifts
one day off
3 nights
three days off
3 day-shifts
one day off
4 nights
two days off

A three-week month would work OK for me - though not easily, as I have four 'weekends' but they're on a different day each week.
I still prefer to just ignore "weeks" and "the days of the week" as they have no meaning in my life.
Almost everyone I know works as much at the "weekend" as "weekdays" - they have no significance any more.

Wyrd bið ful aræd - bull!
TMe
Posted: Thursday, April 26, 2018 12:00:10 PM

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Well done, DragO, sir.

I am a layman.
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