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Gathering Knowledge Options
TMe
Posted: Monday, April 9, 2018 10:09:45 AM

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Hello Teachers sirs/Mesdames Which of the following sentences is correct?

I am in a dilemma as I read both the sentences in the same article.





“Gathering knowledge for knowledge’s sake is termed ‘pure’ or ‘basic’ research.”

or

“Gathering knowledge for knowledges sake is termed ‘pure’ or ‘basic’ research.”


I am a layman.
Kirill Vorobyov
Posted: Monday, April 9, 2018 10:31:29 AM

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Location: Moscow, Moscow, Russia
TMe wrote:
Hello Teachers sirs, [/b]


I understand this is worse than the f-word these days.
(i) you explicitely discriminate against women, (ii) "sirs" seem to be out of favour as such.
No wonder there're no responses. People don't want to establish links with this.
Donthailand
Posted: Monday, April 9, 2018 10:48:32 AM
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I believe this is the correct one: “Gathering knowledge for knowledge’s sake is termed ‘pure’ or ‘basic’ research.”
TMe
Posted: Monday, April 9, 2018 11:24:44 AM

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Kirril Wrote;
I understand this is worse than the f-word these days.
(i) you explicitely discriminate against women, (ii) "sirs" seem to be out of favour as such.

Thanks for correcting me as far I know.of English.

But 'explicitely' is no word of English Language.It is explicitly.Dancing Dancing Dancing

But I feel when responses are expected from both genders, 'sirs' is correct.

Haven't you noticed the salutation, 'Respected teachers'?

Does 'Honor' distinguish. I doubt. But that was not my intention.
Anyways, Your words are too harsh.

I am a layman.
NKM
Posted: Monday, April 9, 2018 4:58:28 PM

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As Donthailand says, the correct form is the one with the apostrophe in "knowledege's sake".

georgew
Posted: Monday, April 9, 2018 5:15:35 PM
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Donthailand wrote:
I believe this is the correct one: “Gathering knowledge for knowledge’s sake is termed ‘pure’ or ‘basic’ research.”

I agree. But the mistake of omitting the apostrophe is a common one.
David Kitajima Miller
Posted: Tuesday, April 10, 2018 4:51:35 AM

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Location: Loveland, Colorado, United States
I believe that the correct one would be "knowledge's". In the sentence,
the word "knowledge" is it's own idea/entity, and if you're doing something
for the sake of "knowledge", than you should properly denote possession with the apostrophe.
hedy mmm
Posted: Thursday, April 12, 2018 10:46:18 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

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TMe, do not place too much credence when you are criticized...Lao Tzu wrote, "Care what other people think and you will always be their prisoner."

I, an actual teacher, am not offended, by your use of 'Teacher Sirs/Mesdames'... you used a correct term, for you did use both genders, although not a very popular one to native speakers. (and here is the rub!)

To address your question of the usage of 'knowledge' or 'knowledge's'...

ALL RESPONDERS GAVE YOU THE WRONG ANSWER!


Words like evidence, information, research and knowledge, NEVER take a plural 's'...it's a common mistake.
The definition of Knowledge, (found in Wikipedia) is "a familiarity, awareness, or understanding of someone or something, such as facts, information, descriptions, or skills, which is acquired through experience or education by perceiving, discovering, or learning."

Suffice to say TMe ...TFDers should research before giving an opinion... and not be offensive...

If I've stepped on any toes...I don't sugarcoat sh_t, I'm not Willy Wonka!

hedy

"God graced us with today....don't waste it." hedy
Drag0nspeaker
Posted: Saturday, April 14, 2018 4:06:02 PM

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Hi Hedy.

I don't understand what you mean here.
You're wrong (sorry, became a bit carried away there . . . Whistle )

None of the actual responders used the plural (there is, as you say, very rarely a plural of 'knowledge').

All four (omitting Kirill who just commented, but didn't answer) said that the singular possessive should be used.

"For knowledge's sake" - "for the sake of knowledge".

Some of them specifically said that the plural "for knowledges sake" was incorrect.

*********************
Concerning the original use of "Sirs" - the "/Mesdames"" was added later after Kirill's comment - it's true.
It is not normal English now to use a masculine word to mean people of either gender.

The other point (more MY concern) is that there are no specific "teachers", "pupils", "Sirs" or "servants" on this forum.
It is a forum for "Questions and discussions relating to English grammar and syntax" - not a teaching site.
Several of the members happen to be teachers or retired teachers (by profession) but in a discussion, no-one is senior. "Sir" is unnecessarily subservient.

It is not that you are insulting anyone - but you are making less of yourself by considering others to be senior!


Wyrd bið ful aræd - bull!
BobShilling
Posted: Saturday, April 14, 2018 5:59:38 PM
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Drag0nspeaker wrote:
there are no specific "teachers", "pupils", "Sirs" or "servants" on this forum.
It is a forum for "Questions and discussions relating to English grammar and syntax" - not a teaching site.
Several of the members happen to be teachers or retired teachers (by profession) but in a discussion, no-one is senior. "Sir" is unnecessarily subservient.


Applause Applause Applause
Islami
Posted: Sunday, April 15, 2018 1:53:41 AM
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Posts: 77
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BobShilling wrote:
Drag0nspeaker wrote:
there are no specific "teachers", "pupils", "Sirs" or "servants" on this forum.
It is a forum for "Questions and discussions relating to English grammar and syntax" - not a teaching site.
Several of the members happen to be teachers or retired teachers (by profession) but in a discussion, no-one is senior. "Sir" is unnecessarily subservient.


Applause Applause Applause


I disagree. There is lot of difference between U.K. culture and Asian culture. We, in Asia unconditionally pay respect to the more knowledgeable.

Thanks hedy for your excellent response.

Just because the writer of an article is British doesn't mean that they use English correctly-DragOnspeaker.
BobShilling
Posted: Sunday, April 15, 2018 4:11:31 AM
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Islami wrote:
We, in Asia unconditionally pay respect to the more knowledgeable.
And Drag0 was pointing out he we, in the mainly British/American/Australian culture of the people who respond in this English-language forum, speak and act.
Drag0nspeaker
Posted: Monday, April 16, 2018 4:14:49 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 9/12/2011
Posts: 29,138
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Location: Livingston, Scotland, United Kingdom
Hello!
It may not be obvious to anyone who does not know us very well, but Hedy and I both know that she would not take my comment (about "You're wrong!") seriously - she knows that is not my style, except when it is meant as a joke.

Concerning the use of "Sirs" - that is my feeling when someone on here calls me (or other members) "Sir".
We are all members. Some may be more educated in English than others, but no-one is 'high-born' or superior.
I am not a "Sir".

Respect is one thing - I do respect knowledge and people with knowledge - but I equally respect the desire for knowledge, and people who seek knowledge.

************
Concerning the original question - the answer is already here.

Donthailand, NKM, georgew and David Kitajima Miller all said that the singular possessive should be used.

"For knowledge's sake" - "for the sake of knowledge".

Some of them specifically said that the plural "for knowledges sake" was incorrect.

Wyrd bið ful aræd - bull!
Kirill Vorobyov
Posted: Monday, April 16, 2018 9:23:24 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 10/4/2016
Posts: 425
Neurons: 2,220
Location: Moscow, Moscow, Russia
Please, forgive me, TMe! I made my point in a ... perhaps slightly improper tone... I'll probably admit to it. Angel I didn't really mean to be rude. My post did incite an interesting discussion, however, in parallel with the main topic of your thread, didn't it? If only that can work as an excuse...
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