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Could It Really Happen That Way? Options
Jyrkkä Jätkä
Posted: Monday, January 22, 2018 8:30:59 AM

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Location: Helsinki, Southern Finland Province, Finland
FF,

"presently existing in fact and not merely potential or possible"
"taking place in reality; not pretended or imitated"
"being or existing at the present moment"


In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.
almo 1
Posted: Monday, January 22, 2018 8:56:58 AM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 10/16/2016
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Location: Fussa, Tokyo, Japan
Fyfardens wrote:
Jyrkkä Jätkä wrote:
A song from the 70's but still actual.


Your normally impeccable English has deserted you on this occasion. Unlike its counterpart in many languages. 'actual' does not mean 'current/relevant' in English.



*****************


I understand that the expression conveys the idea
that it actually is happening - the same thing is happening.






Hope123
Posted: Monday, January 22, 2018 2:00:37 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 3/23/2015
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Location: Burlington, Ontario, Canada
Digression into Vocabulary - Fyfardens, I once made the mistake that English is JJ's first language because he writes so well.

JJ and Almo,

Actual does mean those definitions but it is an adjective and used before a noun. Use instead current or in this case relevant to mean , well, still relevant.

TFD - Be Careful!
You only use actual in front of a noun. You do not say that something 'is actual'.
2. 'current' and 'present'
You do not use 'actual' to describe something that is happening, being done, or being used at the present time. Instead you use current or present.


Thar,

I agree. Their system does not make sense to the rest of us. It must to them - something to do with checks and balances that seem to cause so many problems, such as actually stopping the government? Edited - Probably has something to do with not raising the debt. They fight and then raise it anyhow.


And for McConnell, the Repub Senate leader, to deny the military their wages when that was put on the table shows all their "patriotic" rhetoric is nonsense. And Trump and son seem to want the shutdown. Trump's disappeared and Jr. actually said it helps as they can blame the Dems. lol. Obama got the military paid when the Repubs shut the govt down in 2013.

I personally do not like bills tied, even in to Omnibus bills. But this is not a one-off. They've been working on the DACA bill for years, and Dems thought they had an agreement several times in Dec until the Repubs did the same thing, affecting almost a million lives plus their families. If they let them put it off again, it won't get done and March is the cut-off.

Trump is the one who uses money and other threats to get what he wants - and not just in America. And it is not evident exactly what he wants as he turned down his original proposal.


If the lawmakers - Congress and Senate - did not get paid either, you'd see how fast the system would change. Just sayin'.

It is not the strongest of the species that survive, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change.
Hope123
Posted: Monday, January 22, 2018 3:12:27 PM

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Joined: 3/23/2015
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Location: Burlington, Ontario, Canada
I think they just voted to end shutdown till Feb 8th. I didn't see any details. Last time when it lasted 16 days it cost the economy
billions. Seems the Dems care about the country.

It is not the strongest of the species that survive, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change.
Fyfardens
Posted: Monday, January 22, 2018 4:06:49 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 12/16/2017
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Neurons: 4,589
Hope123 wrote:
Fyfardens, I once made the mistake that English is JJ's first language because he writes so well.


I was here (under a different username) for several months before I discovered that JJ was not a native speaker. His English was/is normally so correct/idiomatic/natural that it didn't occur to me that me might be non-native.

I speak British English (standard southern, slightly dated).
progpen
Posted: Tuesday, January 23, 2018 6:50:34 AM

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Location: Princeton, Minnesota, United States
There is a subset of the Senate Democrats who made a deal with Senator McConnell in return for their vote for the temporary budget deal. They did not get anything tangible in return and only McConnell's promise that he would put the DACA legislation up for a vote. Nothing more than that and the only change in the funding bill is that it is for a shorter time period (2 instead of 3 weeks I believe).

Personally, I see this as a bright and shining example of why the Democratic party is not properly situated to fix our current mess. The shutdown was purely a Republican thing and happened solely because the Republican party is divided, plus the fact that the Dingbat in Chief has the attention span of a goldfish. The Democrats had been sidelined up to the point that the Republican party leadership came crawling to them to help bail them out of their self imposed mess. There are a few Democrats who saw this as an opportunity to build their own stature within the Senate, my two Senators were among them. I see this as a very self serving thing that they have done that has nothing to do with the running of the country and everything to do with their own political capital and their own power within the Senate. In two weeks time we will be right back where we started and the Republican leadership will have the added leverage to use against the Democrats that they already voted for the bill once, why won't they do so again? On the flip side, the Democrats will have gained nothing because they have yet to figure out that the Republican leadership are no longer the traditional Republicans that many of them are used to working with.

Nolite te bastardes carborundorum
Romany
Posted: Tuesday, January 23, 2018 10:32:42 AM
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Location: Brighton, England, United Kingdom

Yet in all the interminable discussions and the hand-wringing and the where-did-we/they-go-wrong; the question of money being able to dictate not just law, but the entire Administration of the USA; has never been seriously discussed.

I remember studying plutocracies in Economics - but even then it just seemed common-sensical to me: - you get what you pay for. If you have the precedent - if not the actual Law - which allows democratic principles to be sidelined for huge donations of money...which gets used personally(!!)...then the whole economic and social strata cannot be seen as a Democracy: the two systems cancel each other out!

Everything that's going on now - the Russia enquiry; hush-money to victims of sexual abuse; refusal to pass certain bills; the formation of new bills - all are overshadowed by "grey" money; or dirty money; or laundered money; and the obscenely huge amounts of money which guarantee the passage of other bills; money to fend off bankruptcy; money to manipulate deals; money that belongs to The People and not the President...and in amounts that could go at least some of the way to reducing National Debt. All being greasily handled not by "short men in yarmulkes" but by greedy, immoral, short-fingered old white guys.

And its not policy, convictions, moral tussles nor respect for law which infulences public legislation - just money. For which a country is being raped, its infrastructure fall into disrepair; its students getting steadily less educated; its sick and poor and huddled masses becoming the poorest, sickest and most disregarded in the entire developed world.

Everything else - the racism, bigotry, lack of human rights, has loomed large and been relayed across the globe. But the fact that venality has overtaken love of country? Why has that become the most humungous elephant not just in the room, but in every corner of the White House?

Hope123
Posted: Tuesday, January 23, 2018 4:39:11 PM

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I guess we are done with the nuke topic unless daily events bring it to the forefront again, so we can talk about whatever we want?

Thanks for explaining what happened, Progpen. What a shame. Seems the US really does need the swamp drained of big money. However, they sent the alligators in to do it in the last election.

It is not as if those who pay attention don't know it is happening, Romany. It was shrugged off when discussed on here as "they all do it when I mentioned about govt officials taking large legal "bribes" from groups such as the NRA, yet that person thought businessmen would be a change and Trump a shakeup.

I think it was Progpen who has mentioned here - with proof easily found - several names - Koch, Mercer, I forget the others - who actually control everything. Bannon bankrolled by Mercer and others, spent millions discrediting and targeting Hillary and accusing her of all kinds of corrupt things while using offshore money to do so.

This Guardian article was in the Toronto Star a while ago. This is how to get your candidate elected.

https://www.thestar.com/amp/news/paradise-papers/2017/11/11/steve-bannon-and-the-secret-political-war-chest.html

Steve Bannon and the secret political war chest - offshore

"How the billionaire Mercer family, backers of Bannon, built a $60-million war chest for conservative causes inside a foundation, by using an offshore investment vehicle to avoid U.S. tax.

Eighteen months before guiding Donald Trump to election victory, Steve Bannon delivered the opening shot in the ruthless Republican campaign to paint their Democratic opponent as corrupt. The future White House chief strategist produced a book in May 2015 accusing Hillary Clinton of trading favours for donations to her charitable foundation. Its questionable central charge, on the sale of a uranium company to Russia, recently became the subject of a House inquiry and feverish talk on conservative media.

But the financial arrangements of another foundation, which bankrolled Bannon’s creation of the book, Clinton Cash, have received less scrutiny.

"Clinton Cash dissected donations to the foundation Clinton led with her husband Bill. Disputed allegations in the book — that mining executives contributed to the Clinton Foundation to assist their lucrative sale of a uranium company to a Russian state energy agency — attracted prominent coverage in the mainstream media, delivering a blow to Clinton after she announced her candidacy.
FBI officials who looked into the foundation’s activities were later reported to have based their suspicions on details from Clinton Cash. By then, the book’s publisher had corrected more than half-a-dozen errors in the text relating to the Clintons’ finances, including one based on a bogus press release. The book continues to resonate today, leading to a joint inquiry on the Canadian uranium issue by two House committees announced last month...Documents indicate that the Mercer foundation has avoided liability for millions of dollars in U.S. tax by routing its investments through one of these Bermuda vehicles."


It may not be illegal to avoid taxes and get around laws that limit politcal donations, but it is certainly something to be looked at.

How does the average person counteract such wealth? Do they need some kind of Me/Too movement to show that what is does not have to remain so?

#MoneyOut?


It is not the strongest of the species that survive, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change.
progpen
Posted: Tuesday, January 23, 2018 5:57:32 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 10/2/2015
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Location: Princeton, Minnesota, United States
Hope123 wrote:
How does the average person counteract such wealth? Do they need some kind of Me/Too movement to show that what is does not have to remain so?

#MoneyOut?


We do have options, but they are not well known.

Socialist party
www.socialistpartyusa.net/

Green party.
www.gp.org/

Nolite te bastardes carborundorum
leonAzul
Posted: Friday, January 26, 2018 4:43:59 AM

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Joined: 8/11/2011
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Location: Miami, Florida, United States
Hope123 wrote:

How does the average person counteract such wealth? Do they need some kind of Me/Too movement to show that what is does not have to remain so?

#MoneyOut?


They follow the original plan and take control of nominations at the local and state level.

It is no mystery that candidates for national offices are largely drawn from those serving in the state governments. If the state legislatures are allowed to degrade into viper pits of venomous demagogues, then it is too late to complain about the cadre of elected officials from which those contesting national offices are drawn.

"Make it go away, Mrs Whatsit," he whispered. "Make it go away. It's evil."
progpen
Posted: Friday, January 26, 2018 9:00:45 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 10/2/2015
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Location: Princeton, Minnesota, United States
leonAzul wrote:
Hope123 wrote:

How does the average person counteract such wealth? Do they need some kind of Me/Too movement to show that what is does not have to remain so?

#MoneyOut?


They follow the original plan and take control of nominations at the local and state level.

It is no mystery that candidates for national offices are largely drawn from those serving in the state governments. If the state legislatures are allowed to degrade into viper pits of venomous demagogues, then it is too late to complain about the cadre of elected officials from which those contesting national offices are drawn.


That is an excellent point and is why the 3rd parties have been concentrating on the state and local level.

Nolite te bastardes carborundorum
Margarit Bamllari
Posted: Thursday, February 08, 2018 9:48:29 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 6/4/2009
Posts: 200
Neurons: 642
Hope123 wrote:
Two Toronto Star articles this morning...

A technical failure almost started a nuclear war back in 1983 because of the atmosphere of distrust between the leaders of Russia and the US. They say it could happen again and the recent Hawaii error should be a wake up call for the US to stop all the recent rhetoric with North Korea and Iran. I have not heard if they upping their nuclear power as Trump wants.

I remember the airplane incident and loss of life but I didn't realize till I read the following article that Reagan and Moscow nearly had a nuclear war in 1983 because of blunders on both sides and Reagan missing a point at a daily briefing. Or forgetting it.

https://www.thestar.com/news/world/analysis/2018/01/14/hawaii-false-alarm-shows-just-how-close-the-line-is-between-mishap-and-nuclear-war.html

"William Perry, a defence secretary under president Bill Clinton, called the false alarm in Hawaii a reminder that “the risk of accidental nuclear war is not hypothetical — accidents have happened in the past, and humans will err again.
Reagan concluded the same, writing in his memoirs: “The KAL incident demonstrated how close the world had come to the nuclear precipice and how much we needed nuclear arms control.”
Mikhail Gorbachev, who soon after took over the Soviet Union, had the same response, later telling the journalist David Hoffman, “A war could start not because of a political decision, but just because of some technical failure.”


https://www.thestar.com/news/world/2018/01/14/false-alarm-in-hawaii-reveals-an-abdication-of-leadership-by-trump.html

Gorbachev and Reagan reduced their country’s stockpiles and repeatedly sought, though never quite reached, an agreement to banish nuclear weapons from the world.

How could we ever get rid of nukes when countries don't trust each other to begin with? Is it a good idea for the US to get more nukes as Trump wants to do?


Back to the topic.

Hawaii mishap was not an error. It was well calculated and it did not happen out in the blue. There has been months of sharp rhetoric between NK and US. In case any of the two countries should use a nuclear missile, both of them will have to take permission which will never get it. If US will ever use it, it will have to knock on SK and Japan's doors. This is first.

Second. Even a conventional war would result in a tremendous devastation on both sides without being able to claim victory. China and Russia keeps supplying NK and use it as a deterrent to avoid US being at their doorstep. Third. US on the other side DOES NOT really want a war with NK. Time is the best proof for that. If they really wanted, why did they wait until now????? Because they want to keep the military presence in the north-west Pacific and to keep selling armaments to SK and Japan.

The solution for the Korean Peninsula is deescalation of the military use of force which consequently will open the way of bilateral talks between North and South.

The US CAN NOT live without WAR INDUSTRY. $556 BILLION a year. You can do the math yourself. Am I within the topic?


STRENGTH IS BUILT FROM ONES FAILURES NOT FROM ONES SUCCESSES –COCO CHANEL
Drag0nspeaker
Posted: Thursday, February 08, 2018 11:23:59 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 9/12/2011
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Location: Livingston, Scotland, United Kingdom
Hey!
Welcome back Margarit!


Totally on-topic!
I think that is a point which has been mentioned, but - like the elephant in the room - is a bit unconfrontable.

At least since the First World War, with the same financiers backing arms deals to both sides and Income Tax being "made legal" by changing the Constitution it has been the same.

The US thrives, and can only survive, by waging war and dealing in arms - the whole of industry is geared towards that.
The "Big Families" make a huge profit from war industries, and from oil and the use of oil to give excuses to make war.

You can (with some effort) track back - the obvious "up front" arms dealers:
Lockheed-Martin, BAE, Boeing, Northrop-Grumman and so on, in USA, Europe and around the world
- back to the "investment groups" which own most of the shares
- back to the 'unheard of' unpublicised companies which run the investment groups
- back to the private investment brokers who invest in those companies
- back to the families which provide the finance used by those investment brokers
- back to the twenty or thirty people who make 90% of the profits from all arms-deals worldwide.

The same names appear again and again - strangely enough, the same names which are on similar traces done on drug trafficking, starting with Johnson and Johnson, Pfizer, Roche, Novartis, Merck and GlaxoSmithKlyne.

Some are well-known, some not - Rothschild, Koch, Cox, al-Saud, Mars, the Waltons . . .

All the 'posturing' and 'facing off' is designed to keep the arms-manufacturers in business with expanding numbers of orders.


Wyrd bið ful aræd - bull!
philips daughter
Posted: Thursday, February 08, 2018 11:47:16 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 4/21/2017
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The only thing I could add to DragO and Margarit would be the direct link between those oligarchs and their “donations” to various Congressional campaigns.
Drag0nspeaker
Posted: Thursday, February 08, 2018 12:02:02 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 9/12/2011
Posts: 27,707
Neurons: 155,758
Location: Livingston, Scotland, United Kingdom
Yes - the Democracy of the USA is the people being given the chance to vote between two candidates, each financed by the few who own almost everything.


Wyrd bið ful aræd - bull!
Margarit Bamllari
Posted: Thursday, February 08, 2018 12:50:23 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 6/4/2009
Posts: 200
Neurons: 642
Drag0nspeaker wrote:
Hey!
Welcome back Margarit!


Totally on-topic!
I think that is a point which has been mentioned, but - like the elephant in the room - is a bit unconfrontable.

At least since the First World War, with the same financiers backing arms deals to both sides and Income Tax being "made legal" by changing the Constitution it has been the same.

The US thrives, and can only survive, by waging war and dealing in arms - the whole of industry is geared towards that.
The "Big Families" make a huge profit from war industries, and from oil and the use of oil to give excuses to make war.

You can (with some effort) track back - the obvious "up front" arms dealers:
Lockheed-Martin, BAE, Boeing, Northrop-Grumman and so on, in USA, Europe and around the world
- back to the "investment groups" which own most of the shares
- back to the 'unheard of' unpublicised companies which run the investment groups
- back to the private investment brokers who invest in those companies
- back to the families which provide the finance used by those investment brokers
- back to the twenty or thirty people who make 90% of the profits from all arms-deals worldwide.

The same names appear again and again - strangely enough, the same names which are on similar traces done on drug trafficking, starting with Johnson and Johnson, Pfizer, Roche, Novartis, Merck and GlaxoSmithKlyne.

Some are well-known, some not - Rothschild, Koch, Cox, al-Saud, Mars, the Waltons . . .

All the 'posturing' and 'facing off' is designed to keep the arms-manufacturers in business with expanding numbers of orders.


Thanks DragOn.

.and the beauty is of those ridiculous and stupid shows they run in Capitol Hill/White House in Washington. Cheap shows and very regretful.

Government shutdown. Comey testimony. Mueller special investigator. Russian collusion. Jeff Session recuse. Trump's firing/hiring. Just to mention a few. Unfortunately there are many naive people in the US that pay $70 TV cable a month just to watch CNN, CNBC, FOX, CBS and believe that b******t. That is distraction of the public from the real problems Americans have. One thing is for sure. Trump is dragging his feet just like Obama, Bush, Clinton and Co. until to the next big lie.


STRENGTH IS BUILT FROM ONES FAILURES NOT FROM ONES SUCCESSES –COCO CHANEL
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