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And the good news? Eventually it all comes out. Options
dave argo
Posted: Sunday, November 05, 2017 6:05:50 PM

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Hope123
Posted: Sunday, November 05, 2017 8:52:13 PM

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Location: Burlington, Ontario, Canada
Re Canada - The consensus online in tweet after tweet and in the media is that these wealthy people with offshore accounts are all crooks and of course if they are politicians with a connection to a friend who has money offshore, then all politicians are crooks.

I don't know about other countries but Offshore accounts are legal in Canada if funds are disclosed.

We poor folks might even find it unethical but mainly are jealous and don't like it that wealthy people are able do this and we can't. Of course Rev Canada should go after any who are tax cheats who don't report the income. I don't tweet but of I were to tweet I'd say to those tweeters "Let's get some facts first before we condemn everybody".

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2013/04/04/offshore-accounts-canada-laws-legality_n_3017583.html


CBC News and the Toronto Star asked Prime Minister Trudeau for a comment on what he thought about Bronfman's involvement in an offshore trust in light of his position as chief fundraiser for the Liberal Party.

"Given you are referring to Mr. Bronfman's role in the Liberal Party, I would direct your questions to the party," Trudeau's spokesperson, Cameron Ahmad, said.

Liberal Party spokesperson Braeden Caley said the revenue chair is a non-voting position and that Bronfman serves on the party's national board "as a volunteer." His role, Caley said in a statement, has "consisted strictly of assisting the board on matters related to building on the Liberal movement's strong grassroots fundraising support, not policy decisions."



It is not the strongest of the species that survive, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change.
dave argo
Posted: Sunday, November 05, 2017 11:32:35 PM

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Here is the piece from The Toronto Star: https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/canada/liberal-fundraisers-held-family-millions-in-offshore-trust-leaked-documents-reveal/ar-AAutsuK?li=AAacUQk&ocid=spartandhp

A bit longish, but for a sordid picture very well written. Can't see any jealousy in it. Of course, there are allegations from experts... Oh, (you too) Canada?
Hope123
Posted: Monday, November 06, 2017 8:52:58 AM

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Joined: 3/23/2015
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Location: Burlington, Ontario, Canada
I know, Dave. I read it. Very sensational. A whole front page and several page spread. I read it but how many will read past the big red caption and assume guilt by Trudeau. Three thousand Canadian names and many from around the world. Yet the big red caption is all about two men, one of whom has a connection to the Liberal Party fundraising.

But I didn't see where it says the Liberal Party or Trudeau were complicit or did any wrong doing. That is what I was complaining about, not that Canada does not have wealthy who use this tax loophole or who are cheats and hide the income completely.

The lawyers for the men say everything they did was legal. So we'll see if allegations of two sets of books etc. is a smear tactic or fact after they investigate.

And it is about half way down the first column before it even says the problem is the law, not the legality of the actions. They do it to pay less tax because it is offshore but as long as they declare it, they are following the tax law. They need to change the law if they don't like that people are using it and we lose taxes. Your word "sordid" tells me that you have already assumed all these people are guilty of a crime or at least of something before the facts are in.

"Offshore trusts are perfectly legal. Wealthy Canadians have long used them as estate-planning tools for moving wealth that has already been taxed in Canada to offshore jurisdictions with far lower — or even zero — taxation. If that wealth was left in Canada, it would have to pay tax on its investment returns every year."

The CRA allocated $1B to investigate this a while ago (couple of years ago?) when it first came up and I hope any tax cheats who broke the laws and did not declare are fined heavily, maybe even go to jail. Of course we have crooks in Canada who are not declaring the income and paying some tax on it. Why would anyone think we didn't?

But what bugs me is how the media is focusing on smearing Trudeau (or any politician always) for his association with someone who has offshore accounts before the facts are known that the Liberals or Trudeau did anything wrong.

And of course they didn't say anything about jealousy - that is my interpretation from listening to the "little people" grousing over the years about wealthy people and their tax breaks and why don't we get any. I have never cheated on my tax returns (in fact I've had my large medical claims audited four times with no adjustments) but I would use the tax loophole LEGALLY myself if I had the means. That is what tax breaks are for.




It is not the strongest of the species that survive, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change.
Hope123
Posted: Monday, November 06, 2017 9:37:39 AM

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Joined: 3/23/2015
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Neurons: 43,441
Location: Burlington, Ontario, Canada
These tax laws are complicated. I'm not a lawyer and certainly do not understand them but if the trust can be linked back to Canadian management, then any trust could be fined right back to the beginning of the trust. (1991 when Kolber moved from Canada to Israel which was why the trust was set up.)

I am sure there will be or already is an audit as 1$ billion dollars was set aside to investigate this issue before. But I bet the media will play it up only if they are found guilty. Otherwise it will be a back page story.

I am certainly against tax cheats and wish they would change the law allowing this loophole for the wealthy. But I am also against sensationalist headlines that make unproven implications.

Quote is from the Toronto Star article on your last link and is in regards to the whole list, not just Canada.

"The documents were leaked from the internal records of Appleby, a law firm founded in Bermuda that specializes in facilitating offshore incorporation, and corporate services provider Estera, which operated as part of Appleby until last year.
In a written statement, Appleby said it “has thoroughly and vigorously investigated the allegations and we are satisfied that there is no evidence of any wrongdoing, either on the part of ourselves or our clients.”


Edited - Trudeau's enemies are circling as I knew they would. Maybe the push to change the law will amount to something in Canada. I don't know what reaction is happening in the US or the UK or elsewhere.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/paradise-papers-reaction-opposition-cra-1.4388916




It is not the strongest of the species that survive, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change.
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